When will America be #2?

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Xtrozero

We also need to understand that the poorest in America are above middle class by world standards...

I try to remind folk that by third world standards, there are no real poor people in America.

In most places there are places where they can get food and or shelter if they want it.

The church I attend has provided housing for at least 10 families just in the last year. We have a local pantry that provides groceries for those that ask, and numerous other churches provide these services and more.

I am sorry to tell you that is not true. There are people who don't get the help they need right here in the US. There aren't as many as you will find in other countries. But they do exist.

Imagine living in a run down mobile home with six other people one of whom is severely disabled and has seizures if certain conditions are not met, like room temperature. There is one car and only two people have jobs and they are part time. Imagine that mobile home has a leaky roof, bad plumbing that freezes every winter, and one small inefficient window air conditioner that is only run a few minutes each day because it runs the electric bill up too high. Imagine having a phone service that goes down for days at a time with that severely disabled child when the seizures start. Imagine not being able to afford his meds, food, the electric bill, and a cell phone, which you need because the land line isn't dependable enough, so you have to choose which ones get paid and which one gets you a warning letter in the mail.

I met this family. I have given them everything I can and it only goes so far. There are some states that simply don't do enough for whatever reason. There are 195 sovereign nations on Earth and we send American tax dollars to 172 of them. Billions of dollars every year while people right here in the USA have to do without the basic necessities of life. Its not nearly as many people as you will find in some other countries. But one is too many for me. Take care of home first.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You are right, there are a lot of poor people in America that don’t get seen, and it used to make me angry when I was a case manager and trying to arrange safe discharges for my patients. There was always money for the migrants, especially the illegal ones, but I had to fight tooth and nail for my American citizens.

But staying honest, the poor that I had the most trouble providing services for, were the veterans of the street that did not want to leave the streets.

Folk that had a bad turn of luck and wanted to get back on their feet were easy to find services for, especially single mothers with children. Drug addicted citizens also rarely wanted long term housing. Long term housing came with a lot of rules that they could not follow, and they knew they were going to relapse and be asked to leave, so many did not bother to sign up. Then we had those they knew the system inside and out, and would play it for all that it was worth, and all they could get out of it.

I can’t speak for every place in America. I can’t even speak for all of South Florida, but there are a lot of services available for the those down on their luck. It won’t be 5 star hotels, and it won’t be prime rib, but it will be a lot better than a cardboard box, and they won’t go to bed hungry. And a lot better than any third world country.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

In most places there are places where they can get food and or shelter if they want it.

If people actually traveled around the world, they would develop a different perspective as to life back in America.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Imagine living in a rundown mobile home with six other people one of whom is severely disabled and has seizures if certain conditions are not met, like room temperature. There is one car and only two people have jobs and they are part time. Imagine that mobile home has a leaky roof, bad plumbing that freezes every winter, and one small inefficient window air conditioner that is only run a few minutes each day because it runs the electric bill up too high.

So what is it that they are doing wrong in life? Two people in a low skill job of 8 bucks an hour is still over 30k together. Add in food stamps, maybe disability SS, Medicaid (socialized medicine) what is it that we do not know that has led them to such a low level of existence in America? What you also describe is still middle class or better by world standards...

But what is going on here? I'm assuming most people living in old mobile homes is because they own the land that was most likely past down, so extremely cheap compared to even a two-bedroom appt.

What really divides America to most other countries is that we all start basically equal, and it is our life choices that drive where we go in life as long as one is of sound mind and body. Most other places you are born and die in poverty with no escape. I'm doing well in life, but I started out dropping out of college and joining the military as an E1. If I went another direction of a lifetime of low skill jobs and maybe drugs were would I be today?

We can also tit for tat this and I can talk about the people in CA/UK that die because they had to wait too long or didn't get that MRI that is basically handed out like candy in the states.

If those people are in dire need I would look outside the Government for help, it's there too. At the end of the day at what point is my life the responsibility of the government or myself. I think that is where many of us differ in our views.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Thats you, not everyone.

I have had quite a few MRI's also. I pay at least part of every single one. The last one I had was $7200 - for one MRI. That was the only one I ever had that cost that much and I only paid for part of it, but still. As for people who have med/pharma bills they cant afford, I have seen that firsthand. My wife's mother lived with us until she passed away. One year there was a change in medicare coverage and her entire check was not enough to cover her meds. My wife and I paid for the remainder for that whole year, and any other bills she had. Her check was $1600 a month and she was coming up $200 short just on meds.

I can believe 7200 as 5k is not uncommon. I had one once that was 18,000 and the follow-up ones at the same place same tech was 5k. I called my insurance company and complained for them and they said that was normal.

Where we can agree is that the bill was 7200 for you and the insurance company paid maybe half or less, but if you didn't have insurance, you would get the full 7200 bill without and way to work it to a lower amount like the insurance companies can. If you have zero insurance you are basically screwed, so no matter what get something. This is a big area that needs to be fixed, another area is drug cost...We can both agree these areas need a lot of work.

But then who do people think are paying for the millions of illegal aliens that use the ER as their healthcare...its you and me in our health cost, so many areas that need work on while not going full socialized medicine and having an extra 25% tax on your pay.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not sure about your math there. Two people working part time, usually around 20 hours a week, at $8 and hour is $16,640 a year - gross. Take home is much less and no health insurance.

In order to keep the child from having seizures in the summer they have to run the a/c and have a small fan on him. The utility co-op is absolute garbage where they live. Their electric bill in the summer is over $300 - for a mobile home...

We all start out in the US basically equal - in theory. But if you ask people if they feel equal most say no. And its not just minorities who say that, its anyone and everyone. White men do not feel equal in the workplace now and have started filing complaints with HR. Women are still underpaid for the same work and the glass ceiling is still there. White people have little to no chance of getting hired once a minority makes it to manager or above. US citizens take a back seat to illegals when it comes to federal aid and its our own money that is being handed out. How equal is that?

What this all leads to is something I have said all along - if we don't take care of home first, there won't be a home to take care of. If this idea of America is real, then home is all of us. Not this color, that gender, this nationality, that preference, etc. We have to take care of home, not visitors, not invaders, not thieves, not vandals, home.

We need to take care of home.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Not sure about your math there. Two people working part time, usually around 20 hours a week, at $8 and hour is $16,640 a year - gross. Take home is much less and no health insurance.

Sorry, missed the part time part

We all start out in the US basically equal - in theory. But if you ask people if they feel equal most say no. And its not just minorities who say that, its anyone and everyone. White men do not feel equal in the workplace now and have started filing complaints with HR. Women are still underpaid for the same work and the glass ceiling is still there. White people have little to no chance of getting hired once a minority makes it to manager or above. US citizens take a back seat to illegals when it comes to federal aid and its our own money that is being handed out. How equal is that?

How about this... you have more opportunities than just about any place else. I basically disagree with everything you say here other than I have no clue to what illegals get to Americans below the poverty line.

What this all leads to is something I have said all along - if we don't take care of home first, there won't be a home to take care of. If this idea of America is real, then home is all of us. Not this color, that gender, this nationality, that preference, etc. We have to take care of home, not visitors, not invaders, not thieves, not vandals, home.

We need to take care of home.

True, I agree.

I also think it is even at a lower level of taking care of your home first. Everyone wants to blame everyone else for their troubles, but if people just focused on themselves and family, they would do much better in life.

With your example I ask myself why, why did it get so bad for them, why do they not try to make their life better. Those are really rhetorical questions, but much of people's issues are self-created.