Russia announces enormous finds of radioactive waste and nuclear reactors in Arctic seas

Check this out, as we all know it's only the russians
en.wikipedia.org...

Belgium & New Zealand?
Really???

reply to post by ModernAcademia

After Japan and now this are you guys still eating fish? I'm happy to say i've never tried seafood in my entire life.

Never?

Ever hear of a lake?

Originally posted by phroziac
How do you "find" that theres nuclear reactors under the ocean? They didnt get there themselves. What the hell.

I stopped eating seafood after fukushima. Maybe i shouldve never ate it in the first place.

Didnt the usa drop a nuclear bomb just off the east coast by georgia once?iirc, they were on a training mission and had to drop it before crashing?

edit on 30-8-2012 by phroziac because: (no reason given)

yes they did & off the coast of japan too plus another 8 nukes have been lost and thats just what they admit

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I think this is the "Open for Business" sign to the whako's of the world. In the process of cleaning up past indiscretions, the Russians can now make lemonade out of lemons.

In the market for dirty bomb makin's? Need some low grade nuclear material? Been denied credit elsewhere? INTERPOL not cooperating? Well come on down to Crazy Ivan's House Of Nuke! Our prices are so low, they're INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Radioactivity spreads much faster to Oceans natural way, than nuclear waste we dump there. Uranium is one of most abundant elements on Earth, and its basically everywhere. And radioactivity is not first thing to worry when eating fish. Heavy metals are the danger, especially mercury. And water blocks radioactivity very effectively (used nuclear rods are stored in water some time because of this)

And you have to eat seafood if you want eat healthy.

And it isn't surprise they find radioactive waste there, they did heavy nuclear testing on those God-forsaken islands there. There was only few natives there (Russia doesn't care about them).

BAAAAAAAAAAHhahahahahaha, I love how humans are "smart" enough to harness this type of power...yet, the solution to disposing of it properly is "out of sight, out of mind".


Nuclear power is a joke, a waste, and needs to be banned across the board.

Funny how these are russian radioactive waste & reacters but people on here are still trying to place blame on the US

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
is it bad form to bring me geiger counter to the all you can eat sushi place I frequent?

It probanly wont detect anything even if the food is contaminated. Test it on a pack of cigarettes, they have radioactive particles in them......

reply to post by Maxmars

You my be right on both counts. Perhaps I am projecting a technical capability that we don't have. but I was sure that we could track nuclear material (assuming it was not shielded). Perhaps I am confusing sci-fi with reality...

I was also pretty certain that the idea of radioactive devices being easy to detect with these types of technology to be correct. But when faced with the question of "would it be possible to read radiation through the ocean?" I started questioning myself if water wouldn't have the same physical relation with radiation that it has with sound, or light.

What makes me think this way is that we are always hearing about radiation being easily spread by the wind and water, which - to my unmathematical mind - would be much easier than what happens with sound. If that is the case, then the ocean water movements could disperse that dumped radiation, or quite simply, block it's detection through a whole body of water.

As an example, a surface destroyer can't detect a submarine that is 400feet below him if that submarine is also below a thermal layer of water. The different temperature blocks the sonar from picking up return "pings".

Then I started researching about this and found some curious information:

Nuclear MASINT is one of the six major subdisciplines generally accepted to make up Measurement and Signature Intelligence (MASINT), which covers measurement and characterization of information derived from nuclear radiation and other physical phenomena associated with nuclear weapons, reactors, processes, materials, devices, and facilities. Nuclear monitoring can be done remotely or during onsite inspections of nuclear facilities. Data exploitation results in characterization of nuclear weapons, reactors, and materials. A number of systems detect and monitor the world for nuclear explosions, as well as nuclear materials production.

I assumed NASA would have a whole division dedicated to radiation detection, if not only just to study our Sun, but I was unaware that there is a whole "discipline" of Intelligence to it.

According to the United States Department of Defense, MASINT is technically derived intelligence that – when collected, processed, and analyzed by dedicated MASINT systems – results in intelligence that detects, tracks, identifies, or describes the signatures (distinctive characteristics) of fixed or dynamic target sources. MASINT was recognized as a formal intelligence discipline in 1986.

Althouth in this paragraph it states that MASINT has the ability to track both dynamic and stationary targets, it also states that the detection is made through several complex data-related processes.

This made me assume that although it's possible to detect this Russian accidental drop, they would need to know it was there to look for it. I thought they weren't able to scan the globe and then receive a report of radiation focus.

But then I read the rest of the information...

In 1959, the US started to experiment with space-based nuclear sensors, beginning with the VELA HOTEL satellites. These were originally intended to detect nuclear explosions in space, using X-ray, neutron and gamma-ray detectors. Advanced VELA satellites added electro-optical MASINT devices called bhangmeters, which could detect nuclear tests on earth by detecting a characteristic signature of nuclear bursts: a double light flash, with the flashes milliseconds apart. Using Radiofrequency MASINT sensors, satellites also could detect electromagnetic pulse (EMP) signatures from events on Earth.

Several more advanced satellites replaced the early VELAs, and the function exists today as the Integrated Operational Nuclear Detection System (IONDS), as an additional function on the MILSTAR satellites used for GPS navigation information.

Considering NASA is able to detect nuclear explosions from Space since the 50's, I'm assuming they have something very usefull by now...

The VELA's were used to detect nuclear explosions by scanning the Earth with several gamma and X-ray detection cameras(?). Major importance to them because they were meant to enforce the nuclear-test ban made witht the Soviets.

This thing's were so sensitive, they are actually responsible for discovering the scientificly interesting Gamma Ray Bursts.

The VELA's were scanning Earth when detected several powerful gamma releases. Fearing a major nuclear explosion, they analyzed the data carefully. Further investigation from NASA provided the answer:

They had just discovered Gamma Ray bursts, one of the "most violent events in the universe".

Just as a sidenote, it is said that one of those GRB's aimed at Earth, could cause a mass extintion event.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


After Japan and now this are you guys still eating fish?
I'm happy to say i've never tried seafood in my entire life.

But regarding the article.... am I wrong in thinking there is a huge market for this waste?

You might even get a country claiming that Iran deep dived in that area and took a bunch of reactors...

Nuclear waste is a major problem!
We are destroying our Oceans

I believe that Russia owns the 2nd largest supply of freshwatre on the planet, and the Kara Sea receives some of it from various sources.

By the year 2050, you may be forced to become a vegetarian. That is, if Sweden's water scientists are to be believed.

According to the Stockholm International Water Institute, "There will not be enough water available on current croplands to produce food for the expected 9 billion population in 2050 if we follow current trends and changes towards diets common in western nations."

news.yahoo.com...

Western nations?
Ya it's not only western nations it seems

The War on Water!

www.bellona.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Heck yes I'm still eating fish. Man you're missing out - taste and health-wise! But hey, matter of opinion.

Anyhow, the not-enough-water-to-produce-food thing is a total joke. To produce it in the wrong places using industrial methods, sure, but how many really useful home gardens do you see? I have less than 1/4 acre of property, with a house, deck, pool, amd driveway using up probably more than half of it. By next year, we'll be at over 1,000 square feet of food-producing garden, using barely any tap water. We can produce enough produce on this tiny parcel to feed ourselves year-round, as could anyone with a similar lot and rainfall. Our family goes through about 750# of meat annually. If everyone did the same, we could feed 50 Billion omnivorous people on this planet. Granted, I don't think populations should live in deserts, but we simply make terrible use of our arid land.

reply to post by dogstar23


You make it sound easy.

I think you are forgetting a couple of important details:

- Not everyone has a piece of land to cultivate. Most people can modify their beauty garden into something useful, but there are people who don't even have space for that. Even if they are lucky enough to have access to the roof of the apartments, as an example.

- There is enough green land for everyone, but that also implies a lot of re-distribution of people, especially from urban areas. In that sense alone, you are already touching problems like border disputes and nationality issues. We are talking about massive population deslocations that would place them in territories they weren't native. Imagine a problem like Palestine/Israel applied to 48% of the world population - that's how many people live in urban areas.

- If you try to avoid the problem with moving 48% of the world population by producing food off-location for those people, then you are exactly where we are today:

Producing massive amounts of food for people who can't produce it them-selfs is what we have today. Not only are the production methods wasting water resources, but they aren't even used properly because our diets don't use the best agricultural capabilities we have today.

- Taking salt out of water is expensive and energy consuming, not everyone can afford it, or filter it in fair amounts without having to pay more. And salt is the last thing to cross your mind when you are faced with rivers and water fountains that are so polluted you can't clean it without spending fortunes.

Water was the reason why the Roman Empire got it's power, and water was the reason why many empires have fallen.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by Crakeur
they dumped it then they found it. now they can start working to fix the problems they caused by dumping it there.

Funny how a name change to the guilty Country can erase all responsibility so that they can "discover" what they themselves put there.

This is almost bad as being responcible for the genocide of the American Indian population.

What does Cortez bringing the chicken pox over here have anything to do with nuclear waste? Why you want to bring up dead Spanish people for the genocide of Indians in this topic is beyond me.

Cortez landed in central America not north America.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

By the year 2050, you may be forced to become a vegetarian. That is, if Sweden's water scientists are to be believed.

According to the Stockholm International Water Institute, "There will not be enough water available on current croplands to produce food for the expected 9 billion population in 2050 if we follow current trends and changes towards diets common in western nations."

9 billion calls for a new approach! Like ocean farming, you know fertilize the planktons and harvest the resulting bio mass over abundance for food and fuel. The earth is a single point failure for mankind, and only a large population a trillion plus will push us the stars and so offer an avenue for long term survival. We must master the natural systems and not be bound by them. A planet wide city with trillions of humans should be our goal! A completely managed planet etc..

We are in it for the species after all!

The natural systems we hold so dear are doomed with or without us, and the save a whale attitude most hold is suicidal. It is only by mastering and controlling these natural systems that humankind will endure. Try as we might the notion of humans hurting planet Earth is entirely fictional. Consider that 98% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct, and consider why. There are countless events in Earth’s history that make the entire history of human impact seem trivial.

Mother nature loves man because it is man that may carry the torch of life to other worlds! It is not by the principals of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world.

Any system that seeks to limit the human population, or places other species above our own are pointless and useless!

Found this link while google'in what a k-27 submarine was. Evidently there are several incidents where nuclear subs were lost at sea. Very interesting info indeed.

spb.org.ru...

I wonder what happened to the small reactors that were in the Russian polar nuclear lighthouses?

englishrussia.com...

It doesnt surprise me. properly disposing of nuclear waste is a time consuming and expensive job.The soviet union was in bad financial shape long before it broke up so i`m not surprised that they just dumped that stuff in the sea instead of spending a lot of money disposing of it properly.
The people who made the decision to dump it there probably figured, whats the worst that can happen, we`ll be dead before it is found or before it causes too much damage, so it won`t affect us.

I`m sure they aren`t the only country that did that. Some of these other poor countries like india and pakistan that have nukes are probably doing the same thing with their nuclear waste.They can`t be disposing of it properly they are too poor to do that.

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Ive been curious for some time concerning nuclear waste, dumped in a vicinity of a oil deposit.

Since the artic has a supposed vast oil field, if it were drill and refined, would our cars then be spewing radioactive waste, not mention the other carbons?

Diesel fuel can have many alpha particles in the exhaust.. FYI.. I was working at a nuke plant taking some scaffold pipes out of the main reactor building into the emergency generator room when they started one of those giant generators and it spewed out a thick black smoke like you see on some trucks... the geiger counter we were using jumped to 100 millirem per hour exposure and then settled down to normal background after the cloud passed...

while Alpha particles are not dangerous the radioactivicty from them can be stopped by a layer of skin if I remember right

Beta particle wave can be stopped by a sheet of paper but could be an internal threat

Gamma waves are the most dangerous and penetrating radioactive waves I know of

Yep you are correct, however Alpha particles are dangerous when ingested. Our inner organs are not used to that type of exposure.

Although it makes sense, I personally feel the thread title is slightly misleading...Depending on how one looks at it of course. What I mean is that the title made me think that it was not Russia who was responsible, but some other nation altogether. Although it is Russian authorities against Russian authorities, simply saying "Russia Finds" leads one to think that they found something that wasn't Russian. Get what I'm sayin' yo?

Anyway, I suppose you could leave it though, if I even read the article correctly, lol. I agree that this is very bad. There are probably small villages at the very least who use nearby waters as a food source, and what will this waste do to them? Although there is a very small chance it will give them superhuman powers, it most likely will just make them sick or outright kill them in short order.

This is one of the problems with radioactive waste in general. There really isn't anywhere to put it, and if it is stored somewhere that isn't safe, it can really mess people, animals, and places up. Even if it was stored decently, the storage system is not designed to last forever. Eventually the waste will likely escape, contaminating the surrounding area. And this problem of radioactivity will only increase in the world as we as a species increase our production of nuclear power systems and atomic weapons. I don't know what the solution is, but surely someone could come up with a great idea for storing or eliminating radioactive waste that actually works, if they haven't already.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Just lovely. Can't wait to find out the Ecological horrors China is doing, its probably going to be awful.. Russia and China make the West look so good in comparison Green-wise.

-noms on suishi- Eh, we're all doomed anyways according to everyone so might as well keep doing what I love. Plus even not eating seafood still plenty of radiation in the air and what not since the 40's so it's kind of in everything right now.

reply to post by rickymouse


Not really. It dose not affect the Souther hemesphere very much at all.

The gulftream takes care of a lot if not all of it for us.

Thankfully local seafood around the east coast of au is still in pretty good nick.

That said, with dwindelling supplies and contamination elsewhere, Au could find it's self fending off the fishing fleets of every other country in their own waters in the not too distant future.