Russia announces enormous finds of radioactive waste and nuclear reactors in Arctic seas

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Your post reminded me of an issue that I've been researching on and I'm thinking of making a thread about.

It relates to the world water problem - in which your thread also fits - and I'm mainly focused on China. Not because I don't like China, but because they are like a fast passed metabolism, we can study China - due to it's size and population growth - and understand a little bit better what might happen in other world areas, as consequence of our modern life habits.

I will paste here some relevant information I've came across recently:

China told to reduce food production or face "dire" water levels.

China needs to reduce food production on its dry northern plains or aquifers will diminish to a "dire" level in 30 years, one the country's leading groundwater experts has warned.

Zheng Chunmiao, director of the Water Research Centre at Peking University, said the world's most populous country will have to focus more on demand-side restraint because it is becoming more expensive and difficult to tap finite supplies below the surface.

"The government must adopt a new policy to reduce water consumption," Zheng told the Guardian. "The main thing is to reduce demand. We have relied too much on engineering projects, but the government realises this is not a long-term solution."

Zheng's comments are based on his studies of the aquifers under the North China plain, one of the country's main wheat growing regions. He said the water table is falling at the rate of about a metre a year mainly due to agriculture, which accounts for 60% of demand.

A compilation of articles mentions:

China’s economy powers on. But the country is running out of water. This is not just an inconvenience. Unless the Chinese can find a powerful remedy, this is potentially a catastrophe. No water, or insufficient clean water supply, means much less economic growth, if any. Agriculture cannot survive without water, people in cities cannot survive and many industries will be in trouble, as they consume water and are also responsible for polluting the rest with their waste.

As we didn't have enough to be worried about, it actually gets worst.

Due to environment "disrespect" and bad policies, China has been hurting their own growth. Their fast-producing and full-scale industry has contaminated rivers and aquifers that were the major suppliers to cities and bigger population areas, or crops.

It's not that China doesn't have big water areas, it's the problem that even those are already contaminated and improper for human consumption.

But, it does get worst:

Desert expantion is now common in China. During 2003, China's Environmental Protectioncy Agency reported that the Gobi Desert had grown by 52,400 kilometers. About 900 square miles of land become deserts every year. It isn't because the weather is dry, but because the natural land cover has been destroyed. Many problems such as droughts,overgrazing, incorrect use of ground water, and logging erode the edges of China's deserts, making them able to spread. Also, dust storms are becoming common, contributing to the deserts. Dangerous sandstorms from China's growing deserts will affect other areas too. Expanding deserts take away almost a million acres of land every year. Soon, China will create even more dangerous challenges in every way.

Source

I think world governments definitely need to change their political and environmental priorities.

Hope you liked the contribution.

I find this to be a rather skewed conspiracy topic.

The major powers of the world all have satellites in orbit designed to locate radiant nuclear energy. Some use it primarily for finding possible sites to exploit, others use it to track nuclear vessels (if they are poorly shielded) and such. It is rumored that no nuclear material in fissile quantities can be transported anywhere on the globe without some intelligence agency being able to find it.

Now we are being told that a huge slag pile of spent rods, waste fuel, and contaminated materials has been sitting off the coast of Russia ... but no one knew. Really?

Sometimes I think announcements like these are made just before the possibility of getting found out publicly surfaces.

I also agree... this is only what we are being "told." Since we know the governments of the world thrive by keeping the truth from the world... I expect there is much more, and possibly even worse things they have recklessly exposed us to.

Originally posted by Crakeur
they dumped it then they found it. now they can start working to fix the problems they caused by dumping it there.

That's funny in a dark sort of sense of humor way.

How do you all of a sudden find something you knew you threw away in the first place?

I'm thinking they found some oil deposits that they want to exploit and then..."Oh crap! Our old reactors and waste are sitting on top of it."

What to do...what to do.

Whatever it is, radio-active toxic wastes are a CLEAR & PRESENT DANGER to mankind of this and the next comming generations.

Dumping such wastes on planet Earth MUST END once and for all.

Corporations had long beneffitted immensely in wealth from the original material. Look at their lifestyle and it is a fact.

TRUE corporate responsibility lays in not harming our planet, as we reap our bounties. Toxic wastes is unfornately a neccesary fact.

However, it is NOT a neccessary fact to dump it on our homeworld. We mankind have the tech for spaceflight, and can send such material enmass on an orbit to the sun, where it can be safely disposed.

Space flight might be expensive, but if done with better research and improvements using tech, costs can be brought down, as it had compared to the flight to the moon and today's flight to mars.

The COST of CONTAMINATING our HOMEWORLD is much, much more prohibitive, for none, not even the rich whom benefits from such savings, will LIVE to enjoy wealth as our world is DESTROYED.

reply to post by Maxmars


I rather figured they'd have probably known about this for some time, I'm sure they knew about it ever since they started storing waste there. Perhaps this is an indicator that they're finally ready to do something about it?

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy


I think this is a sign that the world's population can no longer sustain itself as separate entities. The solution to problems such as this lies in the fact that there are not only agricultural lands in China, but all over the world. If humanity were to share all of what we have available with all of the worlds population I think we would resolve issues such as what is being seen in China. However; we need to get over old disputes and our fears of one another. I think the lack of sharing stems a lot from the fear that if we help our neighbors they might use that aid against us. First we need to get over that fear and we need to make sure that there is no reason for that fear, that is if any nation does in fact start using such aid against the aid sharer then the world would revert back to a state of fear and thus the worlds population will suffer. This is not a problem for China, but a problem for the human race in my opinion.

reply to post by Maxmars

The major powers of the world all have satellites in orbit designed to locate radiant nuclear energy. Some use it primarily for finding possible sites to exploit, others use it to track nuclear vessels (if they are poorly shielded) and such.

Isn't water a good isolation against distance measurements? I believe the only way you can scope the oceans is if you have a submerged device. Anything other than that, only works well to surface objects.

If these were dumped in a lower depth, isn't it possible that even satellites are unable to detect it?

I mean, Russians knew what they were doing. Maybe those detection devices were the exact reason for them to dump this stuff where they did.

(I'm unsure of what I just claimed about technology, since I never researched on it. But I'm sure other members here are well aware of such detection capabilities).

It is rumored that no nuclear material in fissile quantities can be transported anywhere on the globe without some intelligence agency being able to find it.

Now we are being told that a huge slag pile of spent rods, waste fuel, and contaminated materials has been sitting off the coast of Russia ... but no one knew. Really?

I have a senior family member who is - bless his heart- a bit ignorant in terms of tech. But it's funny to see his ignorance produce credible doubts about technology.

When confronted with the possibility of living in a world surveilled by security cams, his answer was "bullcrap, they can't do that! They just say they can so you don't do anything bad because of the fear of being watched while doing it..."...

Using that senior piece of ingenuity and wisdom, isn't it possible that those rumors were started as a deterrent? If people believe that it's impossible to circulate nuclear material around the world without being detected, maybe they will think twice before attempting it.

I'm sure the technology exists, but maybe it has flaws, or doesn't reach the whole world.

this is why people who dont believe in government regulations and environmental precautions are right,,, right?

Originally posted by ImaFungi

this is why people who dont believe in government regulations and environmental precautions are right,,, right?

Umm... this IS the Govt.(russian govt.) who dumped it there though

You want the culprits to be the regulators, that is nothing less than insanity!

I had the dumbest conspiracy theory come to mind like maybe they did it on purpose to screw over Canada's claims to the Arctic.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by ImaFungi

this is why people who dont believe in government regulations and environmental precautions are right,,, right?

Umm... this IS the Govt.(russian govt.) who dumped it there though

You want the culprits to be the regulators, that is nothing less than insanity!

well governments are made up of people,.,. and it is specific people who have convictions that the environment should be cared for,,, and specific people which do not care about the environment,,.,,

the "russian government" does not exist,..,,. just certain people who want to,, and do,, certain things,.,.

Originally posted by Crakeur
they dumped it then they found it. now they can start working to fix the problems they caused by dumping it there.

Thank you.

Enough of the Red herrings. Waits for the Russians to do the right thing and clean up the mess they made from their former Soviet days and deal with the mess in North Korea arctic ocean!

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy


You my be right on both counts. Perhaps I am projecting a technical capability that we don't have. but I was sure that we could track nuclear material (assuming it was not shielded). Perhaps I am confusing sci-fi with reality...

Also the idea of spreading a rumor to that effect - that we could see it - would have had the exact effect your elderly source proclaimed... sometimes things can be that simple.

Even so, I would really expect a UN sponsored full-scale initiative to quantify the threat... although I think that's probably not on their agenda.

Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy
Isn't water a good isolation against distance measurements? I believe the only way you can scope the oceans is if you have a submerged device. Anything other than that, only works well to surface objects.

If these were dumped in a lower depth, isn't it possible that even satellites are unable to detect it?

NASA satellites found a submerged bridge from India to Sri Lanka that the Bhagavad Gita spoke about

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by Crakeur
they dumped it then they found it. now they can start working to fix the problems they caused by dumping it there.

Funny how a name change to the guilty Country can erase all responsibility so that they can "discover" what they themselves put there.

This is almost bad as being responcible for the genocide of the American Indian population.

What does Cortez bringing the chicken pox over here have anything to do with nuclear waste? Why you want to bring up dead Spanish people for the genocide of Indians in this topic is beyond me.

Are there no White Hats, just non stop agreement world wide to be the worst evil beings of the cosmos and to destroy the whole ocean and all life in it, harm all animals and people. Just eveyrone in one big happy agreement from poltiicans, corporations to scientists. As soon you get a degree you sign up for incredible evil?

Why would this not have been exposed and stopped long ago along with the ohters?

There is a huge group of people in every nation, that is guilty of the worst crimes that could happen galaxies, and they don't stop it or speak up. WHY?

reply to post by Unity_99


In my opinion "the end justifies the means" plays a big role. It is more important to Russia that Russia survives than it is that humans survive. It is more important to Microsoft that Microsoft survives than humans survive. It is more important to America that America survives than humans survive. It is more important to many that "the system" survives than humans survive. I do not think America realizes that "winning" the cold war meant losing, we all lost because of what was done in order to win. The Russians took steps like this in order to win, I guess they didn't win, but America did similar things and so do many other nations and corporations. Corporations are more than happy to dump waste into the worlds water supply, not because they want to destroy the environment, but because they want to win against their competition.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Ive been curious for some time concerning nuclear waste, dumped in a vicinity of a oil deposit.

Since the artic has a supposed vast oil field, if it were drill and refined, would our cars then be spewing radioactive waste, not mention the other carbons?

Diesel fuel can have many alpha particles in the exhaust.. FYI.. I was working at a nuke plant taking some scaffold pipes out of the main reactor building into the emergency generator room when they started one of those giant generators and it spewed out a thick black smoke like you see on some trucks... the geiger counter we were using jumped to 100 millirem per hour exposure and then settled down to normal background after the cloud passed...

while Alpha particles are not dangerous the radioactivicty from them can be stopped by a layer of skin if I remember right

Beta particle wave can be stopped by a sheet of paper but could be an internal threat

Gamma waves are the most dangerous and penetrating radioactive waves I know of

Originally posted by starviego
I used to work at the downtown YMCA in San Diego in the mid '70s. I met one sailor who told me the Navy had one of their big aircraft carriers that had a nuclear reactor that had become totally contaminated. Their solution? The towed the ship out to the open ocean and just dumped the entire reactor overboard. So it's not just the Russians doing this.

haha, this is not star trek, you cant just abort the reactor. hahaha

"im giving it all shes got captain"

reply to post by phroziac


One "finds" its own historical nuclear waste especially if one intends to pass a large part of the bill for the cleanup to other nations...

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by Crakeur
they dumped it then they found it. now they can start working to fix the problems they caused by dumping it there.

How do you all of a sudden find something you knew you threw away in the first place?

The Soviets were notorious for doing such things. Whether it was nuclear waste, or much more commonly, people, the Soviets were known for simply "forgetting" or "losing the location of" things that probably couldn't have actually been lost.

Look into the Soviet Nuclear-Powered Lighthouses. The location of some of them is still unknown...

Then, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the unattended automatic lighthouses did it job for some time, but after some time they collapsed too. Mostly as a result of the hunt for the metals like copper and other stuff which were performed by the looters. They didn’t care or maybe even didn’t know the meaning of the “Radioactive Danger” sign and ignored them, breaking in and destroying the equipment. It sounds creepy but they broke into the reactors too causing all the structures to become radioactively polluted.

Linky