Israeli court: American protester Rachel Corrie's death an ACCIDENT !!

reply to post by woogleuk


Look how massive those bulldozers are. You can only see so far ahead.

She was in a dangerous place - and arrogantly assumed - that to stand there to the end would be more praiseworthy than getting out of the way.

The driver is in no way at fault. The OP is a dramatist. That's all. This is not 'an insult to the entire human race' but a clarion call that you cannot assume how other people will respond is such situations.

Peaceful protests work sometimes. They DO NOT work in all places: in totalitarian states, as in China, for example, it is utterly pointless, as the Dalai Lama asserted when enjoining his fellow buddhists to stop lighting themselves afire in protestation of Chinese policies in Tibet: the Chinese simply do not care.

And peaceful protest is dangerous in contentious warzone areas, such as the Gaza strip. She went into a dangerous area; thinking in her naive little head that this was Lexington Kentucky or Spokane Washington. No, little girl, this is one of the most contentious areas on earth. Those vehicles are so big and armored because the people the Israeli's have to put up with i.e. terrorists - shoot bullets and throw grenades and fire bombs at them. They are military bulldozers, designed to be big.

She went in there expecting something unreasonable, and so, in a very unreasonable moment of sanctimony - she died for nothing.

Maybe Iran could learn from this. You don't need nuclear weapons. Just build a fleet of bulldozers, level Israel, and say it was an accident.

We can only pray that some day the tables are turned and we hear these murdering scum squeal.


2nd

Originally posted by Ben81


one mistake she did .. underestimating the IDF
when she was standing there in her mind she though the driver would never step on the gas
knowing she was there

the lesson learned here .. dont underestimate evil
because they dont care if you die if you stand in their way of destruction
supporting the palestinian side made her a terrorist in the IDF view

they probably put some bad ass bulldozer driver that dont care
to be sure to finish his job and kill anyone who try to stop him
some IDF soldier would have never do that .. yes i believe some IDF soldier still have hearts
compare to the killer bulldozer driver

and this is why i dont believe in civil disobediance
or why while i sympathized with occupy's greivances
i did not agree with their methods

apparently people are still deluding themselves
and thinking the Enemy is human.

if ms corrie had permanently damaged that bulldozer
using any variety of methods
she would have accomplished a lot more in her brief life

even if her actions, as usual,
would have been deemed "Unacceptable" *
and miss corrie labeled as a "terrorist"

Memo to the Victims: You Yourselves Will Pay for the Crimes of the Ruling Class
*

Focus on the critical sentence: "Yet, when a victim explodes or acts out in unacceptable ways, these same officials are shocked and indignant."

What exactly are these "unacceptable ways" of exploding or acting out? Who decided they were "unacceptable"? Why is it that "reluctant school officials" will not "take definitive action" against the bullies -- thus tacitly conceding that the bullying itself is not all that "unacceptable" -- while the same officials are "shocked and indignant" when the victim protests too strongly?

This pattern, and certain of its origins, will be found throughout history, in every culture around the world. The pattern is a simple and deadly one: the oppressor -- that is, those who are in the superior position, whether they are parents, school officials, or the government, or in a superior position merely by virtue of physical strength -- may inflict bodily harm and/or grievous, lifelong emotional and psychological injury, but the victim may only protest within the limits set by the oppressor himself. The oppressor will determine those forms of protest by the victim that are "acceptable."

You see this pattern with regard to many helpless, lonely children in addition to Billy Wolfe...
...

Think about this very carefully for a moment. The oppressor may inflict unimaginable cruelties on innocent victims -- but the victims may only protest in ways which the oppressor deems "acceptable." The profound injustice is obvious, but not in itself remarkable or unexpected: this is how oppression operates. But ask yourself about the deeper reason for the prohibition. This is of the greatest importance: the victims may only protest within a constricted range of "permissible" behavior because, when they exceed the prescribed limits, they make the oppressors too uncomfortable. They force the oppressors to confront the nature of what they, the oppressors, have done in ways that the oppressors do not choose to face.
***
Take some time to appreciate the unfathomable cruelty of this pattern. You may be grievously harmed and even permanently damaged by the actions of those who hold unanswerable power -- but you may only speak about this evil and its effects within the very narrow limits set by those who would destroy you. If you are killed, the identical prohibitions apply to those who still manage to survive and who would protest the unforgivable crime committed against you. In this manner, the complacency and comfort of those who possess immense power and wealth are underwritten by the silence forced upon their victims. The victims may speak and even protest, but only within severely circumscribed limits, and only so long as their rulers are not made to feel too uncomfortable, or too guilty. Anything which approaches too close to the truth is strictly forbidden.

This is the system of government carefully erected and fortified in the United States over the last century. In the last several decades, it has been made impregnable and unassailable. If you tell the full truth or even approach it, you are consigned to the void beyond the most distant borders of permissible debate.

S&F

reply to post by dontreally


if moses and elijah had thought the same as you do...
ps they were considered unreasonable in their day as well

Originally posted by dontreally
Look how massive those bulldozers are. You can only see so far ahead.

She was in a dangerous place - and arrogantly assumed - that to stand there to the end would be more praiseworthy than getting out of the way.

Very true. A similiar thing happened in the USA,

Reverend Bruce W. Klunder was a white Presbyterian minister and civil right activist, born in Oregon. He died at age 27 on April 7, 1964, when he was run over by a bulldozer while protesting the construction of a segregated school in Cleveland, Ohio

en.wikipedia.org...

Funny how people are not whining about that, probably because Israel was not involved.

Bulldozers are dangerous machines, more so when people do silly things in front of them.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I will repeat this once more, since I know you share these sentiments:

Whats so surprising then that these so called human rights activists provide shelter for Hamas terrorists? Or wield machine guns?? They're moral relativists. They don't believe in right and wrong. At their very core, they hate Israel not because of any of its supposed crimes - but because it is a symbol of that culture which they have nothing but disdain for: belief in an objective morality. Israel - as the state of the Jews - is a symbol for that. Their war against Israel is therefore nothing other than a war against the patriarchal culture Jews normalized in western society and culture.

You can twist the scenario all you like - throw some other issue in the forefront to conceal this basic motivation: the 'jewish question', Jewish-Bolshevism, Jewish-masonic conspiracy, etc - they resort to all these tepid lies to hide their basic hatred: their hatred for what the Jew symbolizes: the conscience of mankind. Just as man - or their elites, more like it - revolt against the 'old world order' of the Judeo-Christian ethic, so to is this revolt paralleled in human society at large, transplanting a metaphysical philosophy into geopolitical reality: Israel - the symbol for all that Judaism brought into the world - the basic crux of which is separation, distinction, unity within the context of multiplicity, which yields moral distinctions, national distinctions, social distinction - even the concept of the family is predicated on this metaphysic.

The elites wanna wipe away all of that. Moral relativism, Globalist World government, Communism, and the elimination of the family - all express the same dynamic: the removal of differences in the moral, national, political and personal-social sphere. Hence, a "new world order".

Anyone who understands this repugnant vision in any other way - is not understanding it properly.

dp

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Ben81
This is so sad

sad for the parents, but when you become an apologist for palestinian terrorists, and play in front of heavy earthmoving machinery you are just silly

How dare these people not just submit to Israeli tyranny and terrorism!

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by dontreally
Look how massive those bulldozers are. You can only see so far ahead.

She was in a dangerous place - and arrogantly assumed - that to stand there to the end would be more praiseworthy than getting out of the way.

Very true. A similiar thing happened in the USA,

Reverend Bruce W. Klunder was a white Presbyterian minister and civil right activist, born in Oregon. He died at age 27 on April 7, 1964, when he was run over by a bulldozer while protesting the construction of a segregated school in Cleveland, Ohio

en.wikipedia.org...

Funny how people are not whining about that, probably because Israel was not involved.

Bulldozers are dangerous machines, more so when people do silly things in front of them.

Three of them flung themselves into the path of the steel treads. Klunder lay down behind the machine. The driver, John White, 33, stopped when he saw the three in front. He looked around but did not see Klunder, and he backed up. When he finally stopped, Klunder was dead.

Very true. A similiar thing happened in the USA,

Hardly

reply to post by dontreally


it has nothing to do with judaism or the jews

other than the zionists actively creating hatred,
among the ignorant, and thus incapable of making the distinction,

between jews and crypto-nazis *cough* i mean zionists


all authoritarians require an enemy to justify their existence,
if there are none, they create one as is the case of hamas, a mossad creation

as a fellow judaist i reccommend reading
the works of erich fromm for more concerning the psychology of authoritarianism

and remind you that nationalism and state worship are IDOLATRY.

while the following article is mostly about police brutality
the section i'll quote refers to state fascism and is therefore on topic

It’s quite easy to understand why law enforcement, as a vital enforcement arm of government, uses its authority so recklessly and with little impunity. The state, as anarcho-capitalist philosopher Hans-Herman Hoppe defines it, acts as “the final arbiter and judge in every case of interpersonal conflict.” Whatever issue a citizen has with an enforcer of government law, it must be heard and dealt with by another state official; thereby making bias inevitable. Should a judge declare whatever claim you make against the police as void, the process comes to an end. There is no appeal to a competing authority. Law, instead of being concrete and based on moral principles, is bent and formed to fit whatever the enforcers in the state deem necessary. Instead of protecting person and property, law enforcement seeks to protect itself and the power it has accumulated. In other words, “protect and serve” does not apply to society but rather to their employer known as the state.

Questioning of monopolized, violent, and easily corruptible authority is not a radical stance by any means. Believing that society is incapable of functioning without living under a gun is not only a radical view but also one that hides a hatred of humanity. It is a view based on the ideal that only might makes right and that peace and liberty are impossible conditions for man to prosper in.

The state’s monopoly on violence ultimately acts as a hindrance to social cooperation and rising living standards. It is regressive in the sense that monopolies have no incentive to meet the needs of consumers. Government law enforcement is legalized force shielded by the threat of even more force. There is little accountability or repercussion for police brutality except in some extreme cases. If a victim is unable to illicit support from a media establishment intoxicated with its position as the government’s court reporter, misdeeds go unpunished. Perpetrators are then more emboldened to commit the same, and even worse, acts in the future.

In the end, law enforcement in its current form should not be looked to as a friend of peace but merely as another branch of the state’s institutionalized thuggery. There is little justice to be had if one group of individuals operates outside the rule of proper and moral law. Freedom comes not from a badge and gun but of a recognition that man has an absolute right to not be coerced against his wishes. Anything else amounts to repression of body and spirit with social degeneration as the final outcome.

educate-yourself.org...

EDIT TO ADD
and while i share your sentiments expressed in your post
it seems to me that we are seeing things differently anyway
as you are backing the wrong horse so to speak

until the zionists are permanently removed
as the threat to jewry that they are [synagogue of satan, if you will]
israel wont have peace

there is also the matter of the palestinian's rights as well

I bet people attacking this hero wouldn't be so critical of people like Oskar Schindler, who also tried to prevent WAR CRIMES.

I think it's absolutely shocking to hear some, as have recently said, suggest the Israeli Defense Force is worse than terrorist organizations whose entire purpose in life seems to be the murder of Jewish people and, whenever possible, unarmed and unprepared.

The IDF may not be a whole lot better in some ways and at times, they're just as bad. The bad old days of Lebanon in the 80's comes to mind and however old some events may be...Israel is still reacting to some things of the past and so are the Palestinians.

Sabra and Shatila. Two names that should be as well known and understood for what happened as Munich or any of the worst of the Palestinian atrocities. Having said that, WORSE...is, in my opinion, a ridiculous statement. This is why:

Palestinian Terrorist Attacks back to 1993, listed by date.

Now the events this woman inserted herself into were ongoing with decades of hate from all sides fueling it. I DO respect her depth of conviction for her beliefs, but Americans have NO business on either side of this, let alone trying to bodily intervene with the ugly policies between two combatants in an on going low-intensity war. (Intifada was the term at the time, as I recall)

You pays your money, you takes your chances. She did...and she came up short. It's a tragedy but it's one of HER own making and she never should have been there to begin with. Let the locals make peace or war and we can all fix OUR nation...not everyone else's, IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I think it's absolutely shocking to hear some, as have recently said, suggest the Israeli Defense Force is worse than terrorist organizations whose entire purpose in life seems to be the murder of Jewish people and, whenever possible, unarmed and unprepared.

The big difference is that the terrorist organizations you talk about are acting in defense, where as the IDF is an offensive and aggressive terrorist group which is maintaining an illegal occupation.
I think it is a bit unfair to compare the IDF with them tho because terrorist organizations really are not that bad, Israel and the IDF are more on par with the Nazi party than anything.

Would you be happy with the 'terrorists' if they dropped their bombs from planes instead like Israel?

Your view of the conflict is uninformed.
There were many Jews living happily in Palestine before occupation and during World War 2 Palestine happily accepted millions of Jewish immigrants fleeing persecution. If it was not for Palestine then millions more Jews could have been killed at the hands of the Nazis.
The UN gave the Jews 50% of Palestine and obviously this made some people angry, but it was when newly formed Israel started invading what was left of Palestine, killing thousands of innocent women and children and locking the rest up in Nazi ghettos that true hatred was created and rightfully so.
This is particularly insulting when you consider that at the same time the Jews were whinging about Nazis doing the exact same things to them.

Whats further more insulting is the claim that the Jews are 'gods chosen people' and that god gave them the land of Israel. Not only can they not prove that this fairy tale character 'god' is real, they cannot even prove their lineage to these 'chosen people'.
Given that the Jews, who were said to be gods chosen people integrated into countless countries and groups over the last thousand years it would mean that there are many direct descendants who have been killed by Israel or are living in the Nazi ghettos.
It would seem that not even the Jews respect their own side of the story.

I DO respect her depth of conviction for her beliefs, but Americans have NO business on either side of this, let alone trying to bodily intervene with the ugly policies between two combatants in an on going low-intensity war. (Intifada was the term at the time, as I recall)

America is directly responsible for arming Israel with military equipment that has killed millions of innocent people so if they have that business why can people not oppose it.
Would you criticize Oskar Schindler for trying to stop war crimes?

It is disgusting for you to call it a 'low intensity war' when the same stuff was done to the Jews in ww2 it was apparently the worst thing since forever and people are still whinging about it.

It's a tragedy but it's one of HER own making and she never should have been there to begin with. Let the locals make peace or war and we can all fix OUR nation...not everyone else's, IMO.

Israel is committing a war crime by occupying Palestine and by destroying their homes so this is a war crime plain and simple.

reply to post by Sodium

That's an interesting response. When your account has been around for more than, literally, a couple hours....and I have a bit more than these couple messages you apparently created it to post, I'll reply to points more directly. Given the ferocity of the hate lately though, I simply don't trust brand new accounts that jump straight into the most combative threads going at the moment, with all guns blazing...as this is. Interesting though....

Now to your general points...... Israeli Defense Forces are, by the name ( ) defensive in nature.

If Israel ever chose to end the Palestinian problem they could do so...in a weekend...and absolutely no one on the the Palestinian side, within the borders of greater Israel/Palestine area would survive it. It would start and be over before any Arab nation could do a thing to stop it or meaningfully intervene.

The Palestinians HAVE tried to do that very thing in assisting the multiple Arab nations that have attacked Israel, repeatedly. Always several nations at once and always overwhelming superiority in numbers. They've failed. Every attempt.

THAT is the difference in the end. One side COULD obliterate the other and CHOOSES not to. The OTHER side openly advocates the obliteration of the other and HAS TRIED repeatedly, yet failed.

Why would we ever be the least bit surprised...when the side obliteration has been attempted against, several times now, doesn't possess the patience of Job when watching the same people bomb their buses, eateries and shopping malls? 2003 was before the Great Wall of Shame and bombings were still happening when the Palestinians could manage to pull it off.

Oh...... and the Palestinians this American died to save the home of were dancing in the streets and living it up when news of 9/11 first broke. No one need bother posting this didn't happen. I watched it *LIVE* at the time it happened and I'll NEVER forget it. It got so outrageously offensive, Arafat himself told them to knock that crap off because it was starting to be noticed world-wide for how low class it really was.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Given the ferocity of the hate lately though,

Israel reaps what it sows.

Israeli Defense Forces are, by the name ( ) defensive in nature.

Is that really the best you got?

If Israel ever chose to end the Palestinian problem they could do so...in a weekend...and absolutely no one on the the Palestinian side, within the borders of greater Israel/Palestine area would survive it. It would start and be over before any Arab nation could do a thing to stop it or meaningfully intervene.

Wow, talk about hate.
What 'Palestinian problem'? The people who won't willingly submit to tyranny. How horrible of them.

The Palestinians HAVE tried to do that very thing in assisting the multiple Arab nations that have attacked Israel, repeatedly. Always several nations at once and always overwhelming superiority in numbers. They've failed. Every attempt.

Palestinians and Arab nations have not tried kill every jew or whatever you are trying to claim. Israel is a terrorist war crime committing group and its understandable that people will retaliate to this just as the UK and US did to the Nazi's.

THAT is the difference in the end. One side COULD obliterate the other and CHOOSES not to. The OTHER side openly advocates the obliteration of the other and HAS TRIED repeatedly, yet failed.

When this is the best argument you can come up with you must know you have a problem, they have gone 99% of the way and you are advertising how they haven't gone 100% of the way.
Hate to break it to you but locking millions of people up in Nazi ghettos for over half a century is much worse then just killing them outright.

bomb their buses, eateries and shopping malls? 2003 was before the Great Wall of Shame and bombings were still happening when the Palestinians could manage to pull it off.

Why do you oppose this but not Israel bombing Palestine's schools, residential areas, crucial infrastructure, roads and religious buildings? Palestine didn't start the war and so everything they do is in defense where as everything Israel is doing is an official war crime, you know the things we charged Nazis with???

Oh...... and the Palestinians this American died to save the home of were dancing in the streets and living it up when news of 9/11 first broke.

Seems understandable, I recall Jews and Westerners celebrating when the Nazis fell and when we nuked Japan etc..

It got so outrageously offensive

Wow, imagine how much you would whinge if you were actually in the Palestinians positions.



I need to point out that in your dismal response you have ignore 90% of my original response to you so I ask that you please rectify this less your argument be illegitimate.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

it has nothing to do with judaism or the jews

No need to lie. You are either too full of your nonsense - which is likely, and I apologize for my lying remark, or you know exactly what I wrote is the truth.

It's not a secret. There are plenty of conservative intellectuals who know and understand this.

Aldous Huxley ring a bell?? The world envisioned in Brave New World is essentially the world I just presented to you in metaphysical format: One World Government? The Abolition of Political Parties, and therefore multiple systems? Elimination of the Family? Moral Relativism?

You just don't know enough about Judaism to see that Judaism is the exact and utter opposite of those trends.

The abolition of differences is expressive of Hindu philosophy, Gnosticism, Sufism, Buddhism, Taoism - but not Judaism.

other than the zionists actively creating hatred, among the ignorant, and thus incapable of making the distinction,

yada yada... Where do you get this stuff?? Where did you learn about Zionism? How are crypto Nazis involved in the Jewish desire for a nation state of their own?

You're engaging in Orwellian doubletalk - giving ideas to a word that have nothing to do with the nature of that word. Thus, Zionism, a completely innocuous movement for Jewish nationhood, has virtually become synonymous with illuminati, NWO etc - when they have nothing at all in common.

if there are none, they create one as is the case of hamas, a mossad creation

You are such an ignoramus. MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD Created Hamas! Hamas is fueled by Islamist ideology! Next you're gonna say the Jews or *Zionists* are behind that too.

and remind you that nationalism and state worship are IDOLATRY.

Oh please. I'm in school studying poly sci. I don't need reading recommendation from someone as ignorant - or duplicitous - as yourself.

One can have nations - and appreciate differences - without indulging in state or nation worship.

Have you read Hegel? Hegel points out the unity of the indeterminate and determinate state: in other words, we can preserve our basic differences, take pride in our uniqueness, while celebrating the unity and oneness of all humanity.

as you are backing the wrong horse so to speak

Buddy, my ideas are better formulated than yours. If you're sincere - you are chasing after unicorns.

There is only one war - and Hitler himself enunciated it: The Aryans - or moral relativists vs. the Jews, or those who subscribe to a Judeo-Christian ethic.

That is it. It is a battle for the world, because it is these two views alone which demarcate the boundaries of how the world we live in functions.

I don't personally see a problem with people who think differently from myself, and I would never back a policy or agenda to exterminate "aryans" or people who profess a moral relativism; but the moral relativists are different: they see no solution other than the elimination of the people who have "tainted" mankind with a perception of reality so contrary to the 'mystical experience'. In other words, and as Manly P Hall rightly noted:

Although this globe filled with the contents of material existence is being hurled through space to ultimate destruction, the secret philosophy of the ancients taught that it was possible for the individual to free himself from the swirling mass and by right of his own divinity break through the shell of the world egg and thereby achieve individual liberation. Upon this hypothesis nearly all the mysteries of ancient antiquity were established, a notable exception being the Jewish which taught that there was no liberation for one apart from all. - Manly P Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, pg. 85, Tarcher/Penguin

Judaism is social, objective - external in its concerns. The so-called 'perennial philosophy' is subjective - hence, moral relativism.

Judaism of course has it's mystical aspects, but it is always of a abbreviated nature. Man never becomes so identified with the 'godhead' as to become identical with it. On the contrary, life in this world is marked by the 'other' - by the self transcendent; and one only self transcends when he goes outward - outside himself - which paradoxically brings one inward towards the self.

Listen, I have no problem with people who want to live differently. I am pro liberal democracy, republicanism, capitalism, and I wholly reject socialism/communism.

Problem is, the elites, they're obnoxiously arrogant. They're insanity knows no bounds. Look at where the world descended to during WWII; the massive murder; unbelievable, Hitler and the Nazis spread terror - and reveled in it! Stalin, Ion Antonescu, Mussolini, Ustase regime, Mao etc. It is amazing how unreasonable - how horrifically invidious and villainous the governments and elites of Europe became.

It amazes me. Really. So, knowing that much of what happened during those years was facilitated by the quiet acquiescence of the ruling powers - who let Germany just saunter in and do what they wanted without causing a raucous - it seems highly plausible to me that they let that happen so they could round up as many Jews - 6 million of them - and reduce their presence in Europe, and thus their influence on culture and society.

So.. you can ignore all this conspiracy stuff. Explain to me what you know of historical Zionism its beginning, theodor Herzl, Chaim Weitzman, the founding of the state of Israel. Explain to me how a simple state in an area 74 times smaller than Iran, poses such a threat to world security.

It only becomes that, when you keep repeating it. It doesn't make it in itself logically sound.

reply to post by Ben81


what concerned me in the aftermarth of this incident regarding this case, when Rachel Corrie's parents took receipt of their daughter's body they found some of her organs missing.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Ben81

 

what concerned me in the aftermarth of this incident regarding this case, when Rachel Corrie's parents took receipt of their daughter's body they found some of her organs missing.

Was this supose to be a ironic joke ? very distastefull
trying to be morbid and funny at the same time ..you have a lot to repent
but since its coming from you .. doesnt surprise me at all
since the first post i saw from you .. i knew what you are