Karma is a b****

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Akragon
You can test the theory of Karma... but as i've said, one can only prove it to himself... its similar to the idea of God... No one can prove his existance to another.

But again, you don't have to believe a thing i say...

Its not that i dont, i simply do not see it. As ive said, if we forget what we learn in a previous life, how can we apply those lessons to our current life? How can we look at a suffering child and tell them they deserve what they are getting for once again, surely they have committed misdeeds in a previous life?

If you say i can prove it to myself, please tell me how. To me, karma is incredibly unfair and i hope the universe is not run as such, punishing people for things they cannot remember is exceedingly unfair.

Try being abnormally positive to everything and everybody in your life... Give to anyone that asks of you... be generous for no reason except for the fact that its good. Help others that need it, and even those that don't...

On the other hand while its not recommended, you could take the other path... and watch how your life turns out... And im not giving tips on this one, been there done that... lol

As for lessons from previous lives... Its said that one that hasn't learned his lessons in his previous incarnations yet is has still been a good person will be given "a cup of wisdom" which will help him/her learn and understand in his next incarnation. (Pistis Sophia)

Its my belief that when you pass on you will review this and your other lives and experience the emotions you caused to others, and remember how you felt, and how they felt... That is when you learn from your previous lives unless of course you have been given the ability to remember these lives... After this experience you are thrust back in to the physical with the residual effects of your experience with God... and of course you are given the body you deserve... read the wisdom of Soloman, or the Apocalypse of Paul for references on that matter. I also firmly believe that you are born into the life you deserve as well... Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be first through out his ministry... That is a hint at what is to come...

Karma is anything but Unfair my friend, its is perfectly fair... What you do comes back to you, and you don't always see it but with a keen eye you can notice the effects of your actions in this life. Fear and attachment are your worst enemies... but love always prevails

Originally posted by Akragon
Try being abnormally positive to everything and everybody in your life... Give to anyone that asks of you... be generous for no reason except for the fact that its good. Help others that need it, and even those that don't...

Optimism is always the best way to feel good about yourself, and helping others helps one be optimistic. Not sure if by helping others, someone who knows nothing about my good deeds will somehow "pay it forward" to me though.

After all, as was explained before, you simply cannot deny people who live good, pious lives, never hurting another or doing wrong can have brutal, terrible lives. How do you explain this? And, conversely, people who do terrible things can often live lives of great wealth and happiness. This seems to run counter to your arguement.

Originally posted by Akragon
On the other hand while its not recommended, you could take the other path... and watch how your life turns out... And im not giving tips on this one, been there done that... lol

Again, how do you explain the bad people living good lives? Do we simply chaulk this up as people who lived good lives in the past, reaping their rewards, even if they are evil in this life? Seems very bizzare and unlikely to me. As for the "cup of wisdom" assertation, im not sure what difference that would make. I would trade me wisdom and a terrible life of brutality to be less wise but happier. Wisdom does not ensure that we are born into good circumstances.

Originally posted by Akragon
Its my belief that when you pass on you will review this and your other lives and experience the emotions you caused to others, and remember how you felt, and how they felt... That is when you learn from your previous lives unless of course you have been given the ability to remember these lives.

But..............we dont remember our past lives. And many studies have been done recently that show that methods such as hypnotic regression and the such simply do not work. Our unconcious mind has a wonderful way of making things up. Dont believe me? Do dreams feel real to you?

Originally posted by Akragon
.. After this experience you are thrust back in to the physical with the residual effects of your experience with God... and of course you are given the body you deserve... read the wisdom of Soloman, or the Apocalypse of Paul for references on that matter. I also firmly believe that you are born into the life you deserve as well... Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be first through out his ministry... That is a hint at what is to come...

So..............people who live good lives in the past are now rewarded by becoming happy people here? This is the common refrain i hear in these subjects. But then must we assume the child who is sexually and sadistically abused at an early age "deserves" their treatment? We must assume that since they ARE being abused they MUST have been a terrible person in their past life. Therefore, we should not help them, they surely deserve their lot in life, and who are we to mess with cosmic karma?

Originally posted by Akragon
Karma is anything but Unfair my friend, its is perfectly fair... What you do comes back to you, and you don't always see it but with a keen eye you can notice the effects of your actions in this life. Fear and attachment are your worst enemies... but love always prevails

No, i will never, ever agree. I will never assume an innocent child, too young to understand past transgressions or sins of a past life deserves to be abused. They cannot possibly understand why they are being punished, which is an evil of cosmic proportions in my humble opinion. I refuse to believe our existence is so purposely unfair.

reply to post by nightbringr

Optimism is always the best way to feel good about yourself, and helping others helps one be optimistic. Not sure if by helping others, someone who knows nothing about my good deeds will somehow "pay it forward" to me though.

Life has a way of balancing things out...

After all, as was explained before, you simply cannot deny people who live good, pious lives, never hurting another or doing wrong can have brutal, terrible lives. How do you explain this?

How do you know what said person was like in his previous incarnation?

And, conversely, people who do terrible things can often live lives of great wealth and happiness. This seems to run counter to your arguement.

Perhaps they have different things they have to learn as compared to the other example?

Again, how do you explain the bad people living good lives? Do we simply chaulk this up as people who lived good lives in the past, reaping their rewards, even if they are evil in this life? Seems very bizzare and unlikely to me.

I don't explain it... they walk their path, its not my place to question how they live...

Do you believe riches and material possessions will bring happyness?

As for the "cup of wisdom" assertation, im not sure what difference that would make. I would trade me wisdom and a terrible life of brutality to be less wise but happier.

They say ignorance is bliss... but apparently we here at ATS are trying to deny it...

But..............we dont remember our past lives. And many studies have been done recently that show that methods such as hypnotic regression and the such simply do not work. Our unconcious mind has a wonderful way of making things up. Dont believe me? Do dreams feel real to you?

I wouldn't rely on hypnotic regression honestly... Either you have that gift or you don't... IF one has the gift of remembering past lives, he knows it for a fact...

And i have a lot of issues with dreams as well... I've jumped over buildings in my dreams... It doesn't mean im superman

So..............people who live good lives in the past are now rewarded by becoming happy people here? This is the common refrain i hear in these subjects. But then must we assume the child who is sexually and sadistically abused at an early age "deserves" their treatment? We must assume that however, since they ARE being abused they MUST have been a terrible person in their past life. Therefore, we should not help them, they surely deserve their lot in life, and who are we to mess with cosmic karma?

What you do to the least of them you've done to me.... Ever hear that quote?

No, i will never, ever agree. I will never assume an innocent child, too young to understand past transgressions or sins of a past life. They cannot possibly understand why they are being punished, which is an evil of cosmic proportions in my humble opinion. I refuse to believe our existance is so unfiar.

You don't have to agree...

But how do YOU explain the reason bad things happen to good people?

Perhaps the OT God is real, and he is a sadistic maniac as hes protrayed in said book?

Originally posted by Akragon
Life has a way of balancing things out...

I wish i could believe that. When i look at life, it seems so many undeserving people are rewarded while those who deserve it the most are dealt terrible hands. Chaulking that up as simply payback for actions in a previous life is the same as religion. People want to believe life is fair and there is purpose, when really we have no reason to believe either.

Originally posted by Akragon
Do you believe riches and material possessions will bring happyness?

Absolutely not.

Originally posted by Akragon
I wouldn't rely on hypnotic regression honestly... Either you have that gift or you don't... IF one has the gift of remembering past lives, he knows it for a fact...

But of course this is simply unprovable and we can never know if they have in fact lived those lives or not. Im a realist, i tend to believe in the tangable. Thats not to say im not open to ideas, i know we know very little about our universe at large. I simply see no reason at all to believe in reincarnation or put faith in the fact that since my boss thought he was Stalin in a past life, he surely must have been.

Originally posted by Akragon
And i have a lot of issues with dreams as well... I've jumped over buildings in my dreams... It doesn't mean im superman

Exactly. It doesnt mean my boss was Stalin either. Again, dreams feel very real when we are experiencing them, dont they?

Originally posted by Akragon
What you do to the least of them you've done to me.... Ever hear that quote?

Unsure what you mean here. Are you suggesting children that are born into horrible situations deserve their lot? Surely you must as you believe they are suffering for some transgression in a past life. Would you suggest that we do not mess with nature and let the abuse continue? After all, who are we to mess with the grand scheme of things? This is what i want you to answer the most. Please respond to this question.

Originally posted by Akragon
You don't have to agree...

But how do YOU explain the reason bad things happen to good people?

Life isnt fair. I dont know why we as people, in the 21st century have to come up with some mythical, religious meaning for everything. Sometimes life just sucks. I would never, ever suggest a child deserves to be abused because of what they cannot remember. To me that idea is horrendous beyond belief. I would suggest that you do not realize how bad and horrible abuse, torture and more can be. It can make a person wish they were never born, and worse, make someone wish they would never, ever be born again in any body ever, so as not to risk such terrible things happening again.

Originally posted by Akragon
Perhaps the OT God is real, and he is a sadistic maniac as hes protrayed in said book?

I wouldnt suggest he (she) be sadistic, simply perhaps indifferent.

reply to post by nightbringr

Unsure what you mean here. Are you suggesting children that are born into horrible situations deserve their lot? Surely you must as you believe they are suffering for some transgression in a past life. Would you suggest that we do not mess with nature and let the abuse continue? After all, who are we to mess with the grand scheme of things?

This is what you said in your previous reply...

But then must we assume the child who is sexually and sadistically abused at an early age "deserves" their treatment? We must assume that however, since they ARE being abused they MUST have been a terrible person in their past life. Therefore, we should not help them, they surely deserve their lot in life, and who are we to mess with cosmic karma?

Suggesting that helping others would "mess with Cosmic Karma"... when in fact lack of action "messes" with said Karma much more so to speak...

Life isnt fair.

Who said it was?

I said Karma is Fair... and balences everything...

Life is what we make of it... but its rarely "fair"... but again this is our perception... only God knows what we've done in our past lives...

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

But how do YOU explain the reason bad things happen to good people?

Always fun watching your posts. I do not believe in Karma per se; but, I am guessing you already knew that. I think this life is about learning and I think we get challenges that test us to the limit so that we can truly define ourselves. I don't believe anyone escapes this life unchallenged. Here we had Tiger Woods, to those on the outside he seemed to have it all; but, on the inside he was miserable. He couldn't find any real joy in his life and was popping pills and hiring 10 prostitutes at a time. Just my two cents. As for good people (there is none good but God comes to mind), decent, caring people. It seems they get challenged the most because they put themselves out there. There is a line in the bible that I have always liked, it says that in heaven all tears will be wiped away. Let us hope that it is so.

reply to post by AQuestion


What if we didn't call it "Karma"?

How about... Gods work made manifest in our lives?

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by AQuestion

 

What if we didn't call it "Karma"?

How about... Gods work made manifest in our lives?

And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Dear Akragon,

I think I like that answer and provided with the perfect verses.

Always fun watching your posts. I do not believe in Karma per se; but, I am guessing you already knew that. I think this life is about learning and I think we get challenges that test us to the limit so that we can truly define ourselves. I don't believe anyone escapes this life unchallenged. Here we had Tiger Woods, to those on the outside he seemed to have it all; but, on the inside he was miserable. He couldn't find any real joy in his life and was popping pills and hiring 10 prostitutes at a time. Just my two cents. As for good people (there is none good but God comes to mind), decent, caring people. It seems they get challenged the most because they put themselves out there. There is a line in the bible that I have always liked, it says that in heaven all tears will be wiped away. Let us hope that it is so.

I too have come to realise that karma is simply a tool at our disposal when we need it. Not at all an inescapable fact in our existence. It is an art that we have been taught or programme imposed upon us since certain religions have come into being, and whose preachers have frequently used it for selfish purposes. As a former catholic I have to say I've diligently been beaten up with guilt trip and shame for most of my life. The ability to forgive oneself is the most difficult step towards liberation, awarding yourself the competence of being your own judge and jury, without having to refer to external sources. Arriving at this stage of the soul's evolution, however requires one to play every possible role in the film of life, "dark" and "light". Once all experience has been mastered we can truly say "I understand this situation and do not judge, for I once have walked these shoes". And yes pain and suffering have been proven as worthy teachers until we can cease to inflict it upon ourselves and others. But when we make it to the stage where we can catch ourselves before committing an act which according to our personal current state of awareness could cause harm, this is where we no longer need karma, and are able to control the extent to which we will suffer for an act we have committed, frequently ending the cycle by not repeating it.