Animals Are As With-it as Humans (Animals Are Conscious)

Greetings, ATS!

Mods, wasn't sure where to put this, so please move if necessary. Thanks.

So I stumbled across a very interesting article on discoverynews and thought I'd share. If it turns out this is true, wow.

An international group of prominent scientists has signed The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness in which they are proclaiming their support for the idea that animals are conscious and aware to the degree that humans are -- a list of animals that includes all mammals, birds, and even the octopus. But will this make us stop treating these animals in totally inhumane ways?

While it might not sound like much for scientists to declare that many nonhuman animals possess conscious states, it's the open acknowledgement that's the big news here. The body of scientific evidence is increasingly showing that most animals are conscious in the same way that we are, and it's no longer something we can ignore.

This is big news. In the past, we've always assumed animals were somehow less aware, less conscious than humans. But that may not be the case (although anyone who's spent time with animals knew this already)

The declaration made the following observations:

Studies of non-human animals have shown that homologous brain circuits correlated with conscious experience and perception can be selectively facilitated and disrupted to assess whether they are in fact necessary for those experiences

Wherever in the brain one evokes instinctual emotional behaviors in non-human animals, many of the ensuing behaviors are consistent with experienced feeling states, including those internal states that are rewarding and punishing.

Pharmacological interventions in non-human animals with compounds known to affect conscious behavior in humans can lead to similar perturbations in behavior in non-human animals.

So my question to you is this, ATS. Does this change the way you view animals? Should it change the way we treat animals, such as animals raised and slaughtered for food? Will it impact the way we treat animals?

Can't wait to hear your thoughts!

An international group of prominent scientists has signed The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness in which they are proclaiming their support for the idea that animals are conscious and aware to the degree that humans are -- a list of animals that includes all mammals, birds, and even the octopus.

Is this some sort of greenie, vegetarian initiative?

One of my friends used to work in a abattoir. He told me that sheep had no concept of death - they would stand there undisturbed as other sheep were killed around them.

It would appear that all animals are not as conscious and aware to the degree that humans are but is someone trying to make political capital out of the claim that they are?

reply to post by ollncasino


That's very possible. Maybe PETA funded the research, I don't know.

But at the same time, I've had relationships with animals who I swear were very self-aware and displayed consciousness (at least as we know it).

I just think its interesting.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Growing up in and around a marine environment for most of my life I will go one step further and say that some of them are a lot smarter than us in a lot of ways - sure we have the old opposable thumbs - but look where that has gotten us lately.

All Gods creatures should be treated as we ourselves wish to be treated.



Thanks Smylee - I love posts like this

Should it change the way we treat animals, such as animals raised and slaughtered for food?

Like how?

I guess if they ever figure out how to communicate with chickens and cows we could tell them we're sorry and thank them for their sacrifice, their yummy, yummy sacrifice.

ETA: Forgot to add Fish.

Originally posted by tvtexan

Should it change the way we treat animals, such as animals raised and slaughtered for food?

Like how?

I guess if they ever figure out how to communicate with chickens and cows we could tell them we're sorry and thank them for their sacrifice, thier yummy, yummy sacrifice.

Well, I was thinking perhaps more humane treatment.....

I imagine that being conscious simply means being aware of your existance. Are we debating that animal are going through the motions?

Even though this has appeared obvious to me since I was little, I hope that such an announcement causes at least a few people to think of animals in a more empathetic way, and maybe change people from being meat-eaters on moral grounds

Reply to post by smyleegrl

Hmph, I didnt know people questioned if animals were conscious or not. For me, its always been a given, I grew up with a lot of pets though. Its pretty much impossible to spend a lot of time around animals and not realize they are somewhat aware. We should treat them ethically simply because we have the capacity to understand concepts like ethics and morals.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Animals are more pure, just as sentient, and very much deserving of respect. More so than lots of humans.

I've known this since I was aware of my first thoughts, and it disturbs me greatly that people don't think animals have feelings or awareness.

Granted, some of them (sheep, maybe, fish maybe) are more limited in their intelligence, but this doesn't give us the right to cruelty....
when it comes to cats, dogs, equines, elephants, dolphins, whales, birds, however....yes, they are absolutely aware and have feeling. I echo the member above who stated that it's obvious they are every bit as lucid as we are.

BTW, smylee, I love your avatar.

Animals are conscious? Wow, stunning! It sounds like a revelation if your only exposure to animals was coloring books and animal crackers.

I interpreted what they said as animals experience and process things in very similar ways to us, at the very least, not that every animal thinks on a similar level to humans. Keep in mind that a very large proportion of what humans eat goes towards powering your noggin, a larger proportion than most other animals. Most other species don't have the energy budget or a good reason to develop bigger brains.

I believe that many animals are smarter than we give them credit for (although some are smarter than others; a dolphin is much smarter than a sheep) and that everyone should respect and care for animals. I think that this very is not incompatible with hunting and agriculture of animals, so long as those animals are treated with respect and care. I despise factory farms and industrial scale hunting.

I draw the line at what animals we can eat at dolphins, whales, and elephants. We have analyzed their vocalizations for patterns and it certainly seems language is present (In dolphins and elephants at least, I can't remember if they discovered language in whales. I wouldn't be surprised). If these are not truly sapient beings they come close enough for me. I can't wait until we develop the techniques to converse with these creatures.

They are attacking our ability to have cheap and abundant food.
Only the elite will get to eat the exotic roast beef or cuisine chicken McNugget of the future. The rest of the peasants will grovel for corn meal that hasn't been turned into fuel.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


Beef is not normally a cheap and abundant food source. Only railroads and the great plains allowed Americans such access to beef.

Common sense prevails. However, I would not trust or respect "scientists" who took so long to realise something fundemental like this. I bet funding was involved.

Humans are not special.

Interesting thread, Smylee. I always feel bad when I buy meat at the store, knowing that the animal (whether chicken, turkey, pork, or beef) was slaughtered in an inhumane way.

My thoughts on this subject are confused. I know that Native Americans, upon killing in a hunt, would thank the animal for the gift of its meat and fur. They recognized the sacrifice of the animal to give them food.

We have no opportunity to do this, of course, since when we get the meat, it's been dead for days, shipped from someplace else. Does this mean I'll give up eating meat? No, I'll still eat it...but I never feel 100% good about it. I wonder if the terror and fear the animal felt a few minutes before it's slaughter somehow lingers.

Yet, I don't think farm animals fear death as we do, once they know it's coming and there is no escape. For example, I used to live next to a cow pasture, and one day I saw buzzards circling, so I went to check it out. A cow was trying to birth a calf. The calf was dead, I could see the cord wrapped around it's neck. The cow couldn't push it out all the way, and so she was lying there waiting to die as she was bleeding to death. I did not assist with this, as agricultural laws are tricky, and if the owner found out I had done something and the cow was dead, I could be charged the price of the cow.

Anyway, I felt so bad, and I looked into the cow's eyes, thinking I would see fear and pleading in them. Instead, there was an odd calm, as if she accepted her fate and was waiting patiently for the inevitable. She seemed to look past me.

Yet, a few months ago, I had a cat that was in kidney failure, and he was suffering, so I took him to be euthanized. While in serious pain, he still looked at me with a pleading in his eyes. I asked that they give him a sedative before the actual euthanasia, and when the sedative took hold and he wasn't in so much pain, his eyes seemed to say, "I'm gettin' the hell outta here" and I had to keep him from escaping, as weak as he was. He cried and clung to me as the vet tech tried to take him away for the death shot.

Not sure where I'm going with these stories, except that I suspect they feel much as people do. If we are connected by love to others, we don't want to die and leave this life. When there's nothing holding us, we pass out of this life so much easier.

There is no way to know if the meat we eat was once an animal that had earthly attachments and feelings of fear and longing. If I knew the animals were treated humanely and with consideration for their feelings, I would probably feel less guilty.

As soon as some brave soul convinces a 'conscious' Bengal Tiger that killing and eating other animals is cruel and mean, I'll stop too.

Then they can go to work on sharks, lions, hyenas, bears, hawks, owls..... Hell, even anteaters need to get with the program.

For my part, I was already sure of this.
And yet- I eat meat, I work with horses, dogs, cattle.... I participate in the slaughter of cattle, pigs, rabbits and chickens.
I experience communication with animals that is commonly termed "psychic", and feel very close and loving with the animals I interact with.

Some people find this contradictory and confusing.

To me, it is not. What I experience, and what I pick up from animals, is that one doesn't fear death of the biological container if a connection to the source is kept intact. If one does not shove into subconsciousness their being as part of a collective consciousness.

Repulsive reactions to pain-causing experience is automatic in the body and for good reasons- the survival (and procreation) instinct helps us keep up the production and evolution of biolgical containers for us to use. But we also have the possibility of comprehending that we do not ever cease existing- we simply re-integrate our larger whole.

I advocate methods of treating and slaughtering animals which are compassionate and respectful.
Even I would agree to let myself be killed to feed others, if it could be done in a way which spares me suffering.
I suspect people mix up in mind pain and death, and their repulsion to pain is interpretted as a repulsion to death itself.
Animals do not do that.

Yeah the original human culture is the Bushmen of Africa from 100,000 BCE -- 90% of human history -- up to 10,000 BCE. The Bushmen -- when they kill animals for food they don't eat the animals the same day because then the spirit of the dead animal would communicate to the live animals that humans are killing them for food, scaring away the living animals.

So not just animals but also plants have an aura that can communicate with humans -- trees can care for humans.

I had my best friend as a parakeet who would shower with me and flew freely in the house and one time he held a grudge against me since I had angered him. I don't even know what I did but he sulked in his cage until he then took it out on my by biting me. Then he was happy again. haha. He had a tragic death but he lived a free happy life as much as a pet could -- I got him from his nest in the pet store.

Anyway it's been proven that fish as pets will get sad if they owners go on vacation.

Emotions are electrochemicals tied to our organs -- so if a person drinks then they damage the liver causing anger and this then brings the electromagnetic consciousness down to the liver. Also when we dream at night our electromagnetic consciousness moves from the heart down to the liver. If we eat green foods they are photoreceptors due to the magnesium and this increases the photon energy that cleans out the liver to change the anger into wisdom.

Smoking damages the lungs causing sadness -- so the West doesn't understand the connection between smoking and depression.

My point is that Western modern humans are not as conscious in terms of understanding the connection of emotions and the body organs because modern humans are left-brain dominant which then cuts off our brain from our lower body energy -- the neurohormones.

The vagus nerve of the right brain connects down to our reproductive organs and this brings up the neurohormones - the serotonin then turns into oxytocin via the left side vagus nerve going down to the heart.

So the modern human has to open up the right side of the brain and also the pineal gland to create real consciousness as coherent photon energy that is rainbow aura energy seen around trees and animals etc. A healthy alive organism gives off a coherent rainbow aura and can even create more "yin spirits" or coherent energy light bodies used to heal other creatures.

So in this sense consciousness is impersonal yet as was pointed out when animals suffer -- then the pain releases stress hormones and this can also pass on the damage to those who eat the meat. So then when we eat meat there is increase in dopamine but for males the external ejaculation triggers the stress sympathetic nervous system as a spike in cortisol. For females the internal vagus nerve orgasm turns the dopamine into serotonin and after about 40 of the internal vagus nerve climaxes the serotonin then turns into oxytocin to open the heart.

The Chinese call the heart the "heart-mind" and for Egyptians the heart was the center of consciousness not the brain - even ancient Greece called the heart the Thymus as the center of consciousness. So us modern humans are cut off from thinking with our hearts as love emotion from the harmonization of the liver, pancreas, kidneys, lungs and reproductive organ energy. So the heart then creates electromagnetic fields that are more coherent and strong amplitude due to building up the energy of the other emotional organs.

And so when we die as a ghost -- what determines heaven and hell is where the electrochemical energy powers the electromagnetic spirit energy -- so if the electromagnetic energy is stuck to the lower organs as kidney fear or lung sadness or liver anger then this causes the electromagnetic spirit to go to holographic astral hell at death. This is why Tibetan monks feel the body of the dead to see which part gets cold last because that determines where the electromagnetic spirit left the body -- did the person go to heaven? Then the head gets cold last but if the feet get cold last the person went to hell.

So the Bushmen used this same determination for animals -- if they kill an animal it went to hell but it is important that it doesn't spread that hell consciousness to other animals still alive. Also when the Bushmen heal other humans it mainly is sickness from lower emotional spirit possession -- so that when a person dies their spirit energy still influences the living. This is also how a person becomes "hard-wired" with their electromagnetic consciousness stuck in their lower emotional organs.

So consciousness is very limited as defined by Western scientists --

Here's biologist Tony Wright on consciousness and neurohormones -- advocating a fruit-based diet.

Originally posted by Mkoll
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

Beef is not normally a cheap and abundant food source. Only railroads and the great plains allowed Americans such access to beef.

Every citizen has access to cheap ground up hamburger at every grocery store in America. Normal is dictated by recent history, not centuries ago.