Idaho Republican Wonders if Women Even Know What Rape Is

reply to post by Happy1

thanks for the acknowledgment, i thought i was being relegated to the statistics again.
as for porn, most adults enjoy their fair share (some more than others) or it wouldn't be the booming industry it's always been.

I'm saying that people who rape are wanting power and control, to "own" their victim.

this, i can agree with but when you add the term "materialism", it just doesn't apply.

actually, it has a LOT to do with sex (contrary to what the propaganda says)
it isn't rape unless sex acts are involved.

clearly, if someone steals your wallet, it's theft, not rape.
if they steal your child, it's kidnapping, not rape.

again, it is only rape if sex acts are involved, hence, rape IS about sex among other things.

this is exactly the dis-connect that is prompting such nonsense commentary by our representatives.

not getting into the self-esteem topic as i believe that correlation depends on the situation, each their own.

What he is saying is ignorant, yes, but I also think it's obvious what he was getting at with the marriage bit.


He was saying - That the woman should want to know whether or not her pregnancy was the result of her rape, or relations with her husband, if she has one.

He is only speaking on the assumption that a woman who regularly has consensual sex, and is raped and impregnated, would not necessarily know who the father was.

That part wasn't well worded, and he's obviously a doofus, but still surprised it flew over so many peoples heads.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Honor93

 

The feds can pick up a vet for posting something on facebook that is "anti-gov't", but they can't pick up the child porners that are posting on facebook? See the articles "pedo-bear" on facebook.

I don't understand the rest of your post. Maybe I need to read the beginning of the thread again. Sorry, I'm not arguing, I don't know. A bit scattered tonight reading other threads also, I apologize.

apology back at ya ... at first i thought you were a male

ummm, don't get me started on that topic ... if THEY can find the single cow that originated MCD (madcow disease) ... then THEY can find any dang thing they want to ... me thinks they just need some motivation.

i don't do facebook but thanks for the reference.

honestly, i'm not arguing either just nit-picking at the vocabulary because this topic gets blown out of proportion far too often for all the wrong reasons.

and i also apologize for being overly sensitive about this subject ... as tracehd1 already said ... you never forget and you don't just ... get over it, ever.
(especially when 2 lives are lost in the process)

Originally posted by tracehd1
reply to post by hesse

 

Apparently people are just as ignorant as they were 30, 40, 20 yrs ago.

The right tries to separate these extremists (like Winder) from the mainstream of the party, but in reality, as we can see here, the party is moving to the far right and the voters are following. The "moderate Republican" is an endangered species and the majority of Republican voters are going to continue to vote to keep the extremists in office, so they're just as bad. They're cut from the same cloth, using law to support outdated and religious law. Who ever thought we'd have a push toward what amounts to Canon Law in the US? And by the same people who say they're scared to death of Sharia Law!

My first thought on reading this article is that I wonder if Winder knows what rape is... I'm not usually a vengeful person, but these old white men dictating the outcome of women being violated seems unfair. Unless they have experienced it, I don't think they should have a say. If they think so little of women, I think they need to GET OUT.

Hillary - 2016!

There needs to be an age limit to represent the people. I see these old codgers that just really don't know what the real world is like. Take everything away from the people but expect them to live in your fairy tale world

I wanna hope the guy meant to ask them about their marriage, and perhaps they had an affair and got pregnant, theen claimed rape to protect her marriage. Though republicants are shifty

reply to post by Myendica

Originally posted by Myendica
I wanna hope the guy meant to ask them about their marriage, and perhaps they had an affair and got pregnant, theen claimed rape to protect her marriage.

If she's saying she was raped and wants an abortion, how many questions and doubts is she supposed to endure to prove that she was raped? This is the whole problem with this issue. HOW will women prove they were raped? And how far will the law go to make her prove it? How invasive will they be?

The fact that she's pregnant and DOESN'T want a child is enough for her to have an abortion. The whole idea that we need law and doctors to approve a medical procedure is INSANE!

Secondly, her marriage is NONE of anyone's business. The very idea that anyone supports condescending, in any way, to rape victims, as if she isn't smart enough to know whether she was raped or not, is sickening!

Let's say she's married, got raped, and isn't sure if the resulting pregnancy is from her hubby or from the rapist... Is she supposed to be forced to carry this child of unknown parentage for 9 months before giving birth to a baby that's CLEARLY not her husband's?

Though republicants are shifty

"Shifty" is a VERY nice way of putting it.

Originally posted by Domo1

was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape .

Uh, sounds like he saying are these women getting knocked up and then lying about being raped so that they can get the abortion. It doesn't sound like he is in any way suggesting women don't know what rape is.

I get that its become fashionable to highlight dumb things Republicans say, but this was five months ago and frankly I wonder if some women get pregnant and lie about being raped to abort the kid too. Doesn't mean I think women don't know what rape is.

ETA I think it's pretty clear who the actual morons here are.

edit on 24-8-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

You summed it up very clearly. His comments were pulled out of context as the discussion was revolving around the requirement to have an ultrasound prior to any abortion procedure (Idaho's Double Ultrasound Bill). He then raised the issue of someone claiming rape to avoid the ultrasound. The bill still has not moved through the state House after passing in the Senate. This was from back in March...legislature.idaho.gov...

The inference that "women don't know what rape is" was suggested by the writer of the article and then spread without thought around here. AGAIN!!


This is a state issue involving a State Senator and yet another thread singling out a state level official in attempt to paint the entire Republican Party in a negative light solely based in an INFERENCE in a piece of state legislation.

Just before the Idaho's Senate passed the bill, which requires woman to have an ultrasound prior to obtaining an abortion, opponents of the bill pointed out that it makes no exception for rape victims, incest victims or women in medical emergencies.

Winder, a Republican from Boise, responded to those concerns by raising the question of whether women understand when they have been raped.

“Rape and incest was used as a reason to oppose this," Winder said on the Senate floor. "I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape. I assume that's part of the counseling that goes on.”

www.huffingtonpost.com...

He raised a legitimate point based on the opposition's case to oppose it.

In his closing debate in favor of SB 1387, Sen. Chuck Winder, R-Boise, said, “This bill does not require a trans-vaginal exam. … It leaves that up to the patient and the physician to make that determination.” He said, “Rape and incest was used as a reason to oppose this. I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape. I assume that's part of the counseling that goes on.”

Winder said, “I believe the state does have an interest in the life of the unborn. That's what the debate's about. Does it add cost? Yes, it does. I would just ask you to consider the pricelessness of the unborn.” He noted the Senate's recent commemoration of military members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past year. “Each person has a life story,” Winder said. “Those were cut short. Let's not choose to cut others short.”

www.spokesman.com...

That puts it all full context to the best of my quick research on this issue.... Now it's up to Idaho's House to debate the issue. It is NOT a law yet.

Let the insanity continue....

reply to post by jibeho


So, let's say she did lie about being raped, so she can get an abortion. Is this the kind of discussion that we can expect?

Dr: "Ma'am, you know you can only get an abortion if you've been raped."
Patient: "Yes, I was raped."
Dr.: "Well, are you married? And are you sure this pregnancy resulted from the rape?"
Patient: "Yes. I'm married and you caught me! I didn't really get raped."

Do you think a woman would go in, CLAIMING she got raped outside her marriage, and as soon as the Dr. ASKED her about it, she'd give up the ruse? WHAT is the purpose of asking her, like a child, if the pregnancy resulted from her marriage? If she's going to lie, she's going to lie. She's not going to crumble like a three-year-old whose been caught fibbing. Is a lie-detector the next step?

Maybe there's something I'm missing...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes, there is something that your missing. An interest in the unborn. Just my opinion and you are entitled to yours. Before I became a father and an uncle I had a more liberal stance on this issue. Mainly that is was none of my business. But, after a difficult pregnancy, my wife gave birth to two beautiful girls who fought and struggled for their first 10 days after being born. They were preemies who fought and won!! That entire experience changed me forever.

Regarding legitmate issues of rape, incest or danger to mothers I do believe that it is still the choice that needs to be made between the mother and God. Perhaps that one ultrasound may be just enough to give that unborn child life. Either with his/her mother or via adoption.

We live in a very selfish world....

reply to post by jibeho


My question is "What information do they expect to gain by grilling the woman about her marriage?" If she lies when she goes in there, she's NOT going to change her story because the Dr. asks about her marriage. It's nothing more than harassment.

Originally posted by jibeho
Before I became a father and an uncle I had a more liberal stance on this issue.

Oh, so you "got religion" about the female reproductive system and now believe in forcing YOUR views on everyone else, I see.

That entire experience changed me forever.

"Born Again". I get it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I got KIDS. You've got your dogs. I'd call you a name but its not worth it. My compliments on cherry picking my post. Im not surprised that you failed to comprehend it. Good Bye!! Where's that old ignore button....

If I'm forcing my views... What are you doing??

Patriarchal, demeaning, totalitarian views of GOP members like this are what's killing the GOP. They are legislating a bigger, more invasive Big Brother government.

Break down what he said:

“Rape and incest was used as a reason to oppose this." -- He drafted a "double ultrasound" bill, so that a woman has to jump through more hoops when seeking medical attention about a pregnancy she may want to terminate. Much like the transvaginal probe other GOP members tried to force women to go through. The reason women opposed this, is in the case of rapes and incest, no one wants to go through all that. Women opposed this because it was a grossly unnecessary procedure, that has no medical necessity but is being imposed strictly for some religious fanatical reason.

“I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape.” -- When a woman has a "rape issue" she knows it. Trust me. Go ask someone who has been raped. There is no question.

When a woman is raped, and brought to the hospital (which keep rape kits on hand for such emergencies) they will, during the course of treating her, KNOW if she is pregnant or not. Obviously, if she is already pregnant, then it wasn't the product of rape. If she becomes pregnant AFTER the rape - it seriously implies it was the product of rape. (I don't know of many women who'll jump right back into the sack with their husband after being raped.)

“I assume that’s part of the counseling that goes on.” -- you assumed that's what was going on? Based just on that assumption, you decided to create another layer of bureaucracy between a rape victim and her doctor? You know what happens when you ASSume to much.

What this GOP idiot fails to understand is that if it is weeks or months after a rape, NO amount of medical testing can prove the woman right or wrong (except a paternity test). Unless it was a really savage rape, in which tissue tears might still be present.

He's just trying to force extra levels of government invasion into a woman's rape recovery.

Here's just one Rape Manual, the Merck Manual ~
Scroll through it with an emphasis on the word "pregnancy".

This guy is a clueless fool, he really is wondering if "women even know what rape is".

reply to post by jibeho

Originally posted by jibeho
If I'm forcing my views... What are you doing??

Fighting for women's rights to their own bodies.

Yo.. U know in rowe vs wade. The lady lied, and was never raped? She claimed in an interview after the court case. So.. Yes.. Women lie. Men lie. If you cheated on your husband and got pregnant, theere is a slight chance you would lie to your husband, who may demand you get the abortion. Nothing is simply yes/no. Relax. I was saying that I hoped the politician meant it that way.. But odds are he is stupid. People on the internet someetimes like to twist words around. So keep hating..

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by jibeho

 

Originally posted by jibeho
If I'm forcing my views... What are you doing??

Fighting for women's rights to their own bodies.

Yes you are BH. As others choose to fight for those who can't fight for themselves. I guess fighting for the rights of an unborn child is not considered cool. You keep fighting the fight for the selfish. Good luck with that. Ever been hugged by a child who beat the odds to survive? It's much better than a lick from a dog.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

When a woman is raped, and brought to the hospital (which keep rape kits on hand for such emergencies) they will, during the course of treating her, KNOW if she is pregnant or not. Obviously, if she is already pregnant, then it wasn't the product of rape. If she becomes pregnant AFTER the rape - it seriously implies it was the product of rape. (I don't know of many women who'll jump right back into the sack with their husband after being raped.)

In a perfect world.

How many rapes go unreported?

Despite progress made by women's groups to encourage women to report rape, it continues to go unreported. Although reporting has increased over the past decade, only 30% of attempted rapes and completed rapes are reported to the police according to the National Institute of Justice. Rape goes unreported because of the intersection of consent and coercion. Consent is the central element of the definition of rape. Rape only occurs when a women does not consent to sexual contact. Coercion is the practice of compelling a person to involuntarily behave in a certain way (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, initimidation or some other form of pressure or force. Coercion may typically involve the actual infliction of physical or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may then lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced. In stranger rape the establishment of nonconsensual sex through coercion is easily ascertained. In acquaintance rape it is less clear.

www.trutv.com...

Then you have just outright lies. Ex. The Duke Lacrosse Case and others like it.... Its not clear cut and plenty of people make poor decisions that they regret the next morning.

I find this whole political game a total joke, its demeaning and patronizing and rude, while they laugh their heads off at the reactions their horrendous game stirs up.

They're both the same side, one coin, two heads, no choice, dictators and abusers of humanity through and through.

But oh look you silly human voters you, you have a choice. Fascism and possibly a toe into Sharia with Obama and this kind of right wing fanaticism with the other side.

Choose! And they snicker behind the scenes. Guess you'll never get it, silly humans. You always get 4 or 5 years inbetween to organize locally in watchog groups to wake everyone up and select your own candidates and actually start to take your power back. But you won't because we make sure you live the DOG EAT DOG IDEALS, of despising the homeless and poor, and anyone who isn't like you, so you could never pull off an inclusive group that works for equality and change an gives a voice to everyone in your community and start to hear from each other and start to gain understanding and compassion and strive to work together for win/win's and overcome our political distortions and game.

I can hear them snickering and laughing at everyone. Good thing they're not off the hook, but the bad news is, this means they keep coming back. Unless they finally get hauled up on charges, soul wise.

Its a game, with characters so distorted on both sides, its like seeing a caricature of political ISMs in a news strip. No one can be that insane and get elected!!!!

And people fall for it, hook line and sinker and it stirs a pot of distractions, while they laugh their asses off at us.