Abortion as seen through a perspective of civil rights.

AHhhhhhhhhh!!

People leave religion and assigning replies with political party outside of this debate!



You can't combine characteristic of individual and label them...

i'm Anti-god, Pro-spiritual, Anti-abortion, Anti-lump of cell, and i think in a American standards i would fall into Left... but not exactly because i'm Anti-Abortion....

Canadian Left and Right are easy to figure out!, both parties are almost to the middle lol

reply to post by beezzer


People are going to keep on having sex for recreational purposes, and not for the purpose of procreation. That's a fact. If birth control fails, well then, abortion is an alternative. Until we get birth control right, which we haven't done yet, abortions will continue, as well they should.

reply to post by beezzer


Some people you cannot help nor educate.

They are on the train tracks and the train is coming, you scream for them to get off the tracks but they don't hear you.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Annee

 

That is exactly what he wants you to believe................his plan for his NWO is working well.

Satan and the NWO

Beyond conspiracy and fantasy - - - - A One World Government (logical progression) - - will also have neglected - abused - hungry LIVING children.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by KingAtlas

 

People have unprotected sex then react by killing the unborn. That's avoiding responsibility.

Sure, you can harp on all the pro-lifers not adopting, but again, it's a leftist meme to thrust the responsibility of their actions onto others.

Sex is not an involuntary act. But those that endorse the killing of the unborn tend to react to their lack of responsibility than be responsible in the first place.

Were you dropped on your head as a child....?

Leftist meme? What are you talking about...
You spin it very nicely, a nice deflection, without addressing the issue
For some reason you think I'm leftist.... your thought process is pathetic... I am not a "leftist" whatever that means?

I am not denouncing personal responsibility. There are lots of people that raise their own kids.

Your argument is basically, that all people should be using birth control, or else their "leftist"? Who want to put their responsibility on someone else? Did a "leftist" abuse you as a child or something?


I am saying, that if you take away all abortions there will be more kids in the system, that is a fact, you can tell everyone you want to use birth control, it won't stop two horny dumb people from having unprotected sex.

Or wait, do you want to mandate the use of birth control?
You think it is alright to tell people they have to use birth control?
Maybe everyone should get neutered, that would stop abortions right?

You are taking a non-realistic approach beezer.
You live in an imaginary world, where only "leftist" have abortions... and they expect you to do everything for them????????

I don't expect you to adopt a kid. I am saying that, if you don't want abortions, thats fine... but there are consequences to that...
The real consequence is that there will be more children up for adoption...

But if it makes you feel good about yourself to say "there should be no abortion", then you have to see the real link to children in the system....

Originally posted by luciddream

i'm Anti-god, Pro-spiritual, Anti-abortion, Anti-lump of cell, and i think in a American standards i would fall into Left... but not exactly because i'm Anti-Abortion....

Other then me - - PRO LIVING CHILDREN

We're pretty close. Except I'm actually more politically Centrist then Left.

reply to post by Annee

We're pretty close. Except I'm actually more politically Centrist then Left.

I know we are, we have encountered in a lot of religious debate, and our views are same, abortion is the only thing i seem to disagree, that does not say i'm Pro-life, because im not pro-life or pro-choice.. im more Anti-Denial..

Because of my educational background, i value an organism a lot, in a sense whether it lives or not. Of course living children matter more, but thats another viewpoint where a lot of factors affect the welfare of a child.

I could be called left in American standards... because i seem to agree more with that, then again, i don;t live in states so that might not be accurate, in Canadian perspective, im central, 70% Canadian are central lol

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Annee

 

Having children IS SELFISH, we were programmed to pass our genes, that is selfish!

Yes - - having children is selfish. Absolutely selfish.

Human's are higher form mammals - - with written language/history - and reasoning skills.

In other words humans CHOOSE what they do - - - they do not need to be slaves to built in reproductive programming.

So again - - - give me ONE unselfish reason to bring another child into this world.

Originally posted by luciddream
that does not say i'm Pro-life, because im not pro-life or pro-choice.. im more Anti-Denial..

I've had this discussion/debate for many years.

There are many Pro-Lifers - - - that understand RIGHT of CHOICE.

The Constitutional (or Civil/Civic right) of the individual. Many put that above their personal belief.

No One - - - other then the woman herself - - should have Rights to her body - - or think they can legislate it.

reply to post by Annee

No One - - - other then the woman herself - - should have Rights to her body - - or think they can legislate it

What about legally married husband of many years? is it still her choice alone?

Description of video:

Uploaded by Charlxttte on Oct 2, 2009 I want to start by saying that I strongly believed in pro-choice before the birth of my son. Not until I held him for the first time, was it even possible for me to understand what pro-choice really meant. My son deserved to live, from the very moment of conception, and the reason why I'm so passionate about the subject is, not only did several people close to me encourage abortion, but it was also a very real consideration for myself. I am so thankful I went with my heart, and I thank you for taking the time to watch.

My first one was via the rubber breaking on April 1st...........kid you not.

The day I held my first born son in my arms, 35 years ago was the most wonderful day of my life.

We weren't ready.

We lived in a three room apartment.

Both made low wages.

Both had a lot of growing up to do.

But, as stated before, abortion never entered my mind, M was M when at two weeks pregnant I went to the doctor.

Abortion clinics don't do it to help you out of a "problem" they do it FOR YOUR MONEY".

My sister in law and her husband, the lawyer who have quite a bit of money, a stable marriage, a beautiful home, very nice decent people (She just retired from being a kindergarten teacher) adopted two daughters. X could not have children.

If you left your baby on my doorstep - yes I would take him/her.

Final words.....................abortion is murder.

Murder of a defenseless, person that has no rights no voice.

It's evil as is sleeping around for casual pleasure.

There I've said it.

Nobody wants to be "old fashion", "judgmental" or call a spade a spade - all kinds of twisty turny logic to make yourselves feel okay.

Why is our society getting so vile?

One of the reasons is our moral decay, our irreverence for life for marriage for virtue and morality.

We have become again like in the days of Noah - we never learn, the old trickster is far smarter than most of you arrogant know it alls will admit.

When you decide to have that first baby - look down at him/her and think on the one you sacrificed.

Belief in God or being a Christian - not cool anymore.

Now cool is Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton, Kristen Stewart, all who sleep around and do not know the meaning of loyalty, faithfulness and honesty.

There is right and there is wrong.

Y'all know what is right and what is wrong.

Take responsibility for your folly.

You drink, dance on bars in short skirts and lap dance with every tom, dick and harry you're going to get pregnant.

Again, why do you think the divorce rate in America is almost 50%?

Could it be that people no longer court, get to know each other by talking and not ****ing?????

Humanity has degraded to the level of I won't even dishonor animals by saying animals, below animals.

Self-centered, no conscious, no heart, no thinking beyond me, myself and I and my instant gratification.

May God have mercy on our souls.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

The day I held my first born son in my arms, 35 years ago was the most wonderful day of my life.

The day I witnessed a living child die from malnutrition.

reply to post by luciddream


Now you're asking the Paternal Grandma who would kill anyone trying to harm a hair on my precious grand daughter.

The man, the husband has no rights, no say so............although it is 50% of his DNA. A part of him, he is powerless.

I talked with my husband, really got to know him, we did marry fast but we talked and talked and talked and talked - both had the same dreams and feelings.

Men should take heed of the women they decide to dally with.

You end up making a baby, a son or daughter, you risk losing that baby. You and your parents risks having your child end up in a abortion clinic trash can.

You make your own bed, now you must sleep in it".

The day is near when I, the Lord, will judge all godless nations! As you have done to Israel, so it will be done to you. All your evil deeds will fall back on your own heads. ~ Obadiah 15, New Living Translation

Men don't think with the head on their shoulders and women are masters of manipulation.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Are you actually comparing buying a house to a starving child?

No i was just comparing the idea behind it...

Just out of fear of losing your job, you are not going to invest in house? or car? since you need steady income for those.

But if a person is losing their house, and their car, the last thing they need is trying to find a home for a child when they don't have a vehicle to even get to work to earn money for food.

So your answer is to add to the problem of abused, and starving children by forcing more starving children into the world?

Well, if you are for abort, why do we make a rule where NO ONE should have kids until the entire world is fed?

Probably a good idea. How about worrying about the kids that are here first.

you never going to get a world of no pain.

There are different levels of pain. Not getting into the university you want will never be the same as the drunk father coming home to hurt you.

the only answer the unedcuated kool aid drinkers

Im not sure what that means... but quick Google search said republican,

lolol

so i assume you mean people care about life are automatically a republican and pro-life? lol

The gop platform is the one running on to eliminate all abortion, even in the cases of rape.

i don't care about what people do with their unborn kid, i was mainly against the fact they do this in denial calling it a "lump of cells".

It is a lump of cells. Doesn't feel till 28 weeks. Doesn't have hopes and dreams and love and fear. Isn't afraid of abusive daddy and drunk mommy.

As for an the "unedcuated" part... just because i care about a single organism more than others does not make me a uneducated person or ugggh religious....

Yet, you seem to worry about this cell more than the children who truley need assistance.

- An Atheist Microbiologist.

edit on 8/30/2012 by luciddream because: added "others"

A microbiologist, so no wonder your world view is so small. Which also means you make enough money to not have to worry about feeding the kids you have, and having to choose between eating and going to the doctor.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


And you don't know me. Because you were fortunate enough to get out of the situation, doesn't mean every kid is. That is like saying that all the ghetto has opportunities because one person got out to become a professional NFL player.

Glad you are happy, because the rest of us wish we didn't have to deal with what we did.

reply to post by beezzer


And what have you done, personally, to reduce the need for abortion?

If you think people are not stupid about sex, listen to Love Line on saturday nights. It will make you shake your head.

You assume that people all have the same levels of education, with the same number of caring parents. It doesn't work that way.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by beezzer

 

And what have you done, personally, to reduce the need for abortion?

So let me get this straight. The people having unprotected sex, the people getting the abortions have no, take no responsibility for their actions?

I somehow, have to take responsibility for those who shoulder none?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Because not everyone lives in pretty suburb with money and all the opportunities that the world offers. It is only people who have no idea what it is like to live day by day, that have any clue that life can be far worse than death.

That a mother was forced to have sex by her jobless drunken husband, when she already has two mouths she can barely feed, while already working two jobs.

To sit here and say it is only irresponsible people is the same mentality of" let them eat cake"

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Annee

 

No One - - - other then the woman herself - - should have Rights to her body - - or think they can legislate it

What about legally married husband of many years? is it still her choice alone?

Being the age I am and the generation I come from - - - women were blamed for everything.

If a woman got pregnant - - out of wedlock - - "man was just doing what comes naturally" - - its HER fault for letting him.

As we were told - - when a man refused to step up to take responsibility - - - it was OUR FAULT for CHOOSING the Wrong Man. WE - - the woman - - chose poorly.

There are men in this world raising the child - - the woman let him have a choice in. The Man Chose wisely - - having relations with a woman who gave him a choice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was still married to my husband of several years - - when I became pregnant - - and chose abortion. (we were divorcing - not gonna go into details).

I never gave any thought to his thoughts on it - - - because I knew everything would be up to me - - raising - feeding - child care - education - etc. If he had been the kind of involved father he should/could have been - - we would not be divorcing.

Did I answer your question fully enough?