devastating solar storms expected to knock out National Grid in 2013

And so it begins...the hedging of the 2012 date. LoL! Will the doom never end?

Originally posted by Phage
What is an extraordinary power outage? Is that when the power really, really goes out as opposed to just going out?

not in great humour tonight? bit of a smart assed comment?

i guess it would be extended periods of time without power. widespread failure. we see how much our planet is now interconnected. a major problem with something like the national grid could have serious implications for many sectors.

Fukushima did have a seawall. Too bad it wasn't high enough. But that's not the same thing as a geomagnetic storm. The only effect of a geomagnetic storm is on power grids (which they can damage) and satellites. If the power goes out the emergency generators come online.

yes. fukushima had emergency generators.

however your comment is like something i would expect to read in a government emergency procedure booklet. if the power goes out , emergency generators will come on. simples ;-)

fukushima taught us a) we can never beat nature and b) the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray

i guess russia's pan b is to run for the bunkers.

can you tell me phage , what is your plan if the emergency generator does not come on?

reply to post by jough626


There was no way I was going to be ready in 2012 so I asked the mother earth for an extension. She relayed the message to her sun and he told her "that's ok" Does that explain it?

reply to post by lacrimaererum

can you tell me phage , what is your plan if the emergency generator does not come on?

Like I said, I don't have a nuclear plant.
I also live at a low latitude so it's unlikely that my power grid will be affected.
My plan is the same as it has been for a while. A stock of food and water. While a major geomagnetic storm would likely produce a lot of problems (some of them severe), I don't see it being the end of civilization.

reply to post by lacrimaererum

Next year the sun is due to peak in current 11year solar storm cycle.

Any idea why this time would be worse than the previous peak in 2002?

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


Well this one isn't over yet. The last one is over and wasn't bad. This one still has possibilities while the old one has no possibilities anymore. So until this solar max is over there will always be a risk. That is the only difference I can come up with.

reply to post by rickymouse

So until this solar max is over there will always be a risk.

I get that but the thread title states it's expected to knock out the grid. Why this time? What's different? Is there good reason to expect this or is this simply sensationalism? That's what I'm after.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

can they deal with extraordinary power outages? an extreme event caused during the peak of a solar storm cycle?

What is an extraordinary power outage? Is that when the power really, really goes out as opposed to just going out?

do they have procedures to deal with extraordinary events like tsunami's or exceptional solar flares? i think fukushima answered that question.

Fukushima did have a seawall. Too bad it wasn't high enough. But that's not the same thing as a geomagnetic storm. The only effect of a geomagnetic storm is on power grids (which they can damage) and satellites. If the power goes out the emergency generators come online.

edit on 8/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Better re-read some of those report if the geomagnetic storm is strong and big to damage the power grid
it still will damage the generator also unless their are properly grounded.


One EMP burst and the world goes dark - USATODAY.com
www.usatoday.com...

by Dan Vergano - in 104 Google+ circles
26 Oct 2010 – Electromagnetic pulses (EMP) are oversized outbursts of atmospheric electricity. Whether powered by geomagnetic storms or by nuclear blasts, ...

EMP Commission
www.empcommission.org...
www.empcommission.org...
Off topic but what a way to attack the USA
Or to do a faulse flag attacke

reply to post by Trillium

it still will damage the generator also unless their are properly grounded.

No it wont.
Geomagnetic storms are not the same as an EMP weapon.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Trillium

 

it still will damage the generator also unless their are properly grounded.

No it wont.
Geomagnetic storms are not the same as an EMP weapon.

Like i said better read some more because Geomagnetic storms can produce both.
Are you that sure sir NASA. now their know everyting so their THINK

Lawrence E. Joseph: The Solar 'Katrina' Storm That Could Take Our ...
www.huffingtonpost.com...

15 Jul 2010 – Recovering from a future severe magnetic storm would cost $1 to $2 ... the GIC's (geomagnetically induced currents,) caused by solar EMP.

reply to post by Trillium

Like i said better read some more because Geomagnetic storms can produce both.

Both what?
Geomagnetic storms are similar to the E3 phase of an EMP weapon. They only affect long conductors like powerlines. Emergency generators would not be affected.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Trillium

 

it still will damage the generator also unless their are properly grounded.

No it wont.
Geomagnetic storms are not the same as an EMP weapon.

The EMP threat: fact, fiction, and response (part 2) - The Space Review
www.thespacereview.com...
1 Feb 2010 – solar storm. Could solar activity and its interaction with the Earth's magnetic field be a more dangerous source of EMP than nuclear weapons?


The EMP threat: fact, fiction, and response (part 2) - The Space Review
www.thespacereview.com...
[27] Of course, protecting and hardening critical infrastructure from geomagnetic storms (and EMP) would also offer protection against some cyber-threats, ...

reply to post by Trillium

Geomagnetically induced currents (GICs) in long-line power delivery systems are caused by the rate-of-change of the geomagnetic field, just as in an E3 pulse.

www.thespacereview.com...
Yes. That is what I said. The power grid is at risk. Emergency generators are not.
It is the E1 phase of an EMP weapon which can damage electronics. Geomagnetic storms do not produce an E1 phase.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Trillium

 

Geomagnetically induced currents (GICs) in long-line power delivery systems are caused by the rate-of-change of the geomagnetic field, just as in an E3 pulse.

www.thespacereview.com...
Yes. That is what I said. The power grid is at risk. Emergency generators are not.
It is the E1 phase of an EMP weapon which can damage electronics. Geomagnetic storms do not produce an E1 phase.

edit on 8/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Yes Geomagnetic storms does mostly produce E3 pulse but can produce E2 & E1
But if the storms is extra strong in power and lenght. The power surge will jump to sub-system
generator, scada, PLC, computor ETC......it all in the proper gounding of the system which most are not.
I know I work with this for 35 years.
If it come will we have the time to proper ground it all in time before it hit us
I seen 120 KV line go bad fast to sub-system the ark flash is amazing just pure ionize air BOOM.
Take a week or two to sand blast the unit and have to replace almost everyting else not prety.
NOW multiply that by 10,000 to 100,000 Power Station and Sub-Station down 3 to 5 year.

reply to post by Trillium

Yes Geomagnetic storms does mostly produce E3 pulse but can produce E2 & E1

No.

The power surge will jump to sub-system
generator, scada, PLC, computor ETC......it all in the proper gounding of the system which most are not.

Yes, something plugged into the grid is at risk. Emergency generators are typically isolated from the grid.

NOW multiply that by 10,000 to 100,000 Power Station and Sub-Station down 3 to 5 year.

In a worst case scenario. Maybe.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Trillium

 

Yes Geomagnetic storms does mostly produce E3 pulse but can produce E2 & E1

No.

The power surge will jump to sub-system
generator, scada, PLC, computor ETC......it all in the proper gounding of the system which most are not.

Yes, something plugged into the grid is at risk. Emergency generators are typically isolated from the grid.

NOW multiply that by 10,000 to 100,000 Power Station and Sub-Station down 3 to 5 year.

In a worst case scenario. Maybe.

You miss this part
I seen 120 KV line go bad fast to sub-system the ark flash is amazing just pure ionize air BOOM.

Your typically isolated generator will go up in smoke, I seen it happen with a bad ARK FLASH senario
and this was only 120,000 volt now think 200 KV line the 500 KV line
Now we have a SURGE off 1,000,000 volt induce on top off those line man get the popcorn out & a beer.

If a storm hits earth the right direction it can cause Geomagnetic Induced Currents from milli-amps to around 100 amps. In transformers, the field produced by GIC can cause the transformer to go into half cycle saturation which can produce a high harmonics on the AC waveform. This can cause heating and high reactive power demands which can also cause localized hot spot and damage transformer windings. This can also cause mis-operation of protective relays which can lead to failure of part of the grid, or extended power outages.

Vulnerability is increased when the system is more heavily loaded, or at higher northern altitudes. Long term damage could result in having to replace high power transformers in substations.

Off grid generators, solar systems that are off grid, etc probably wouldn't be affected.

Originally posted by Trillium

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Trillium

 

Yes Geomagnetic storms does mostly produce E3 pulse but can produce E2 & E1

No.

The power surge will jump to sub-system
generator, scada, PLC, computor ETC......it all in the proper gounding of the system which most are not.

Yes, something plugged into the grid is at risk. Emergency generators are typically isolated from the grid.

NOW multiply that by 10,000 to 100,000 Power Station and Sub-Station down 3 to 5 year.

In a worst case scenario. Maybe.

You miss this part
I seen 120 KV line go bad fast to sub-system the ark flash is amazing just pure ionize air BOOM.

Your typically isolated generator will go up in smoke, I seen it happen with a bad ARK FLASH senario
and this was only 120,000 volt now think 200 KV line the 500 KV line
Now we have a SURGE off 1,000,000 volt induce on top off those line man get the popcorn out & a beer.

Arc Flash is a different scenario then the results of a geomagnetic storm.

Now GooGle ark flash



Arc Flash Accident - live cam - YouTube
► 0:42► 0:42
www.youtube.com... Oct 2007 - 42 sec - Uploaded by assecentralflorida
... on Oct 30, 2007. Arc Flash Accident - live cam ... Watch Later Arc Flash while racking a breaker ...


2:00 arc flash interior substation racking breaker refineria Barranca ...
► 2:00► 2:00
www.youtube.com... Mar 2009 - 2 min - Uploaded by JeffreyMeade
Arc Flash Blast Explosion - longer version I am gathering detail for this incident. If you know any facts, please ...

Typically isolated generator

I have to almost have a fire resistance space suite to work with this voltage
one mistake and your dust and fire BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Arc Flash CSA-Z462
www.levitt-safety.com...


You will only make one mistake working with this and it will be your last one you do

reply to post by Trillium

Now we have a SURGE off 1,000,000 volt induce on top off those line man get the popcorn out & a beer.

Volts doesn't really mean much. A lightning strike carries a billion volts.
Where did you get that million volt figure from?