Why Palestinans are lucky to be under Israeli rule in the Middle East

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by Awen24

 

Show me the flaws, your comparing the situation to other degrading situations..

So basically, as long as human right abuses goes unchecked across the Middle East, Israel are top dog, and their abuses set the best example..

I'm sure its your logic that is flawed.

edit on 17-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

I probably won't bother coming back to this thread (normally I avoid the busy ones, too easy to lose track of the flow of the topic), but my point here is:

1) no, Israel is not blameless.
2) neither are the surrounding Arab nations, who benefit more from the Palesineans' refugee status than they would from their settlement.
3) If the nations surrounding Israel had any intention or desire of seeing the establishment of a Palestinean state in peace and security, alongside Israel, it would have happened long, long before now.

There is blame on both sides. Israel is not perfect; far from it... but neither is it the villain it is often portrayed to be on ATS. With that said, neither are all Palestineans terrorists, which is the flipside to many of the arguments on here.

The Palestinean people are victims of their leadership, victims of their 'occupation', and willing victims to their own ideology, which places their welfare about a thousand rungs on the ladder below their usefulness as political pawns in a broader ideological conflict between Israel and Islam.

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by intrepid

 

In our day and age when we don't need to send 10000 people to inflict damage or destroy a country, but one person with a nuclear suitcase. Yes thats exactly what I'm saying...

Spare me the moral lecture. Christianity, Judaism...... and Chinese folklore have all modernized the past 500 hundred years.

Stop watching the fear monger channels/movies. You cannot fit a nuke in a suitcase. And the Chinese. Yeah they have modernized, they still eat dogs,dogs are still considered as a pet in a western society. They even have equal rights as a human infact.

Originally posted by Awen24
...victims of their 'occupation'...

I found your post to be interesting. This the most though. That speaks volumes imo.

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by Sinny

 

It seems like I need to simplify it for you so you can understand. Here we go...
Israelis in the Middle East are dealing with people with a different mentality (Not Western but third world mentality) so they need to act accordingly. That’s why I brought up the phrase when in Rome act Roman.

My second point is that for the future, when we are talking about the future of humanity. We cannot evolve as species with people that their moral compass is based on Islam or religion. Same transition Christianity started in the 15th century with slowly separating church and state.

Point being the Israelis are doing the best with what they have. As for the future, yes we need to get rid of dictatorships and fanatic run Muslim governments. In the process try to have Middle Eastern countries realize that women are equal and they shouldn’t have them stoned to death for adultery. Push for civil liberties like the western world and a bunch of other good things you enjoy and take for granted living in the UK.

Hope I simplified it for you so you can understand.

edit on 17-8-2012 by CountDrac because: (no reason given)

I've understood you from the start. How you understand your self is where I get stumped.

Think I've gave this thread all the time its worth, I'll leave you in the very capable hands of Tenth and Intrepid.

The can fight the battle of common sense for me

reply to post by tothetenthpower


You and intrepid are giving moral argument while im giving you factual realities.
The world sees the true face of Bashar Assad and his murderous government.

Last year if I told you Israel would bomb his nuclear facility you would have givin me the same anti imperialistic argument. And where would we be? With Assad having a bomb. Same goes for saddam and Iraq.

So while its fun to argue and take the higher moral ground. In reality your world with your anti imperialistic approach would give us a world with Asad and Sadam having a bomb. Enough said…

reply to post by Sinny


Sure…
You can’t argue so throw it on someone else and make it seem like your point is made. If this were an academic debate you would have gotten a Fail.
If you wanted to leave the argument to other people why bother even replying to the post at all. Is it just to seem like you got the last word and you have common sense?
This is ATS; we are here to argue and debate. If you can't take the heat just move to another thread. But please spare us your common sense response. We are all adults and can see through it…

reply to post by CountDrac


Okay, you got me back.

Your arguing "reality" we're arguing "morals".. according to your self.

The two should coincide, to go through life accepting injustices as fact is fool hardy, we should do every thing we can to prevent them.

Seriously

I feel like I'm teaching right and wrong to a 3 year old lol.

Originally posted by CountDrac
You and intrepid are giving moral argument while im giving you factual realities.
The world sees the true face of Bashar Assad and his murderous government.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What does Assad have to do with the topic aside from the fact that he's Muslim. Anti-zionist. The topic is, yours btw, "Why Palestinans are lucky to be under Israeli rule in the Middle East "

Let's not sully a decent thread with crass, gross misrepresentations.

So while its fun to argue and take the higher moral ground. In reality your world with your anti imperialistic approach would give us a world with Asad and Sadam having a bomb.

You DO know that Saddam, not having WMD's, is also dead?

Enough said…

Too much imo. Spock just died of the lack of logic.

reply to post by Sinny


In a perfect world they would coincide but again the reality of our world and the Middle East is different.

Hence the Assad nuclear bomb example in my previous post.

reply to post by CountDrac


This is not me backing out of a debate,

This is me officially backing out of a conversation with somebody who cant see the forest through the trees.

reply to post by intrepid


Come on man. You turned this into an anti imperialistic argument a few posts ago. I ask you a question about Israel bombing his nuclear reactor and you can't answer it so now I'm off topic.

You talked about inflicting our moralities on other governments and how wrong it was. I gave you an example of Israel thinking Assad shouldn’t have a bomb based on their imperialistic approach. Now after the revolt in Syria everyone thanks them…

Am I wrong?

Originally posted by intrepid
You DO know that Saddam, not having WMD's, is also dead?

It was documented in the days leading up to the war in Iraq that large trucks were carrying unidentified weapons across the border into Syria (source 1 - source 2 - source 3)

...this news went largely unreported during and after the war, when it became fashionable to claim that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and that the war was fought on false pretenses, etc.

It may, of course, be true that the war was fought on false pretenses, but to claim that there were no WMDs to begin with (when much intelligence suggested that there were WMDs in Iraq PRIOR to the war, both from UN-sponsored bodies, and from individual governments), is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

...just to play devil's advocate.

Originally posted by CountDrac
Now after the revolt in Syria everyone thanks them…

Am I wrong?

No BUT that's internal politics. Not an imposition from an outside source. Can't you see that? Leave them alone. They'll get it right. Your expanding on everything Muslim is not only old, it's wrong. Maybe our type of government isn't for them. Impose it at our expense. Bodies and dollars. THAT'S wrong.

reply to post by Sinny


Again with your comments.
Try having an academic debate and answer my last three posts about the nuclear reactors of Syria and Iraq. You cant because you have no knowledge on the subject.

Move on gracefully, no need for pointless remarks when you have no knowledge on a subject.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by Sinny

 

There is no state of Palestine.

The people there were Jordanians until they left before the war in 1948. They were not allowed to come back. Israel did absorb about 500,000 Jewish refugees that were kicked out of other Muslim nations.

Why did the Muslim nations not welcome their Muslim brothers? Why are they still in "refugee" camps.

The Israelis arent saints but i too always felt that the muslim countries could assist the palistinians.To at least relieve the degree of squalor.I think the palistinians are being used as pawns.

I'm going to listen to my own siggy. Out. The reader sees the truth.

reply to post by intrepid


So let Assad and Saddam have a bomb. Yes im talking about the one Israel bombed in 1981
en.wikipedia.org...

that’s not internal politics, thats a world wide threat my friend.

Are you willing to swap your life with a Palestinian for a life time?

No?

Didn't think so.

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by Sinny

 

Again with your comments.
Try having an academic debate and answer my last three posts about the nuclear reactors of Syria and Iraq. You cant because you have no knowledge on the subject.

Move on gracefully, no need for pointless remarks when you have no knowledge on a subject.

edit on 17-8-2012 by CountDrac because: (no reason given)

Well, considering you keep changing the subject once the previous ones been shot down, this could play on for eternity.

You've shared your views, accept the fact that every body else has shared theirs.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I wouldn’t with anyone living in the Middle Eastern countries for that matter. What’s your point? That I'm right that they are all third world countries with some of the lowest civil liberties in the world...