Mars Science Laboratory / MSL / Curiosity rover - your questions answered.

Originally posted by yeti101
how would the funding work for private companies?

There is money in space exploration, and the almost limitless resources that can be harnessed from asteroids are a big incentive to investors around the world.

Originally posted by Fineousstitch
so.... its ok to develop weapons but not ok to do space exploration???

Yes, according to our constitution. At least if space exploration should continue, NASA should only exist at the state level and state residents can fund it if they wish.

Again, don't ignore me. Quote the relevant parts from the constitution. I never read anything like that.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Again, don't ignore me. Quote the relevant parts from the constitution. I never read anything like that.

edit on 10/8/2012 by PsykoOps because: (no reason given)

10th ammendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

A federal scientific government agency is not among the list of "powers" delegated by the constitution to the federal government, hence if it at all to be instituted, it should be left to individual states to fund their own programs.

On the other hand, military research and weapons development falls along the lines of national security, something which the constitution explicitly states is the role of the federal government.

Unless, of course, NASA sticks strictly to defense (spy satellites, cutting-edge military aircraft, etc) and leaves space exploration and space research to the private sector. That is the only way I can see it existing as a federal agency in accordance with the constitution.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


the word Science means Knowledge

All knowledge is power.
Those who know more than everyone else are more powerful than everyone else.
If you turn your back on knowledge, you doom yourself to slavery at the hands of those who know.

psst! get a clue [or 2]

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:6
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

On Topic:

and for the OP
and would be educators:

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:6
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

what pisses me off
is you'd think the onboard computer could be
a bit more advanced

[yes i know, "tried and tested", but can we try and test new things sometime?]

256 MB RAM?
i mean c'mon?
have all the brains been outsourced?

Hardware

At the heart of Curiosity there is, of course, a computer. In this case the Mars rover is powered by a RAD750, a single-board computer (motherboard, RAM, ROM, and CPU) produced by BAE. The RAD750 has been on the market for more than 10 years, and it’s currently one of the most popular on-board computers for spacecraft. In Curiosity’s case, the CPU is a PowerPC 750 (PowerPC G3 in Mac nomenclature) clocked at around 200MHz — which might seem slow, but it’s still hundreds of times faster than, say, the Apollo Guidance Computer used in the first Moon landings. Also on the motherboard are 256MB of DRAM, and 2GB of flash storage — which will be used to store video and scientific data before transmission to Earth.
www.extremetech.com...

reply to post by Diablos


but the rover isn't a mining mission who would fund it? investors want a return

reply to post by SpittinTruth

Well keep praying you need all the help you need. We are getting ever closer to answering questions about life not of earthly origin. We have zero at present. Not zero as in extensively tested to be zero but practically zero tested! Wow lets make a statement based on that small sample size shall we.

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by Diablos

 

but the rover isn't a mining mission who would fund it? investors want a return

edit on 10-8-2012 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)

Private universities are more than capable to fund this as a joint project with industry, although $2.5 billion is still quite a lot, but they could probably pull it off with much less. Let's not forget that a large chunk of that was pocketed by overpaid and entitled NASA administrators who earn well into the 6 figures. In the private sector, you don't have that problem.

Of course, no one is stopping individual states from funding their own space agencies as that is allowed by the constitution.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

is you'd think the onboard computer could be a bit more advanced [yes i know, "tried and tested", but can we try and test new things sometime?] 256 MB RAM? i mean c'mon? have all the brains been outsourced?

That is because of radiation hardening

Most radiation-hardened chips are based on their commercial equivalents, with some manufacturing and design variations that reduce the susceptibility to radiation damage. Due to the extensive development and testing required to produce a radiation-tolerant design of a microelectronic chip, radiation-hardened chips tend to lag behind the cutting-edge of developments.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
B&W photos aside, my biggest problem with this mission is the WASTE! Too bad we don't have the same kind of enthusiasm on this planet; or for the people that live on it. We don't have a problem looking for life on other planets, but let's turn a blind eye, to the lives on this planet.

NO! We don't have money to help feed the hungry. We don't have the money to build up the infrastructures. We don't have money to find a cure for cancer. But hey, looky here, found 2 Billion dollars laying around. Let's spend it looking for something that doesn't exist!!!

We've spent literally TRILLIONS of dollars on antipoverty programs.The National Cancer Institute ALONE spends over $5 billion a year and that doesn't even count the American Cancer Society and hundreds of others. The US government is spending $144 billion just on food stamps for 2012. Infrastructure spending has been in the trillions these last few years. We are spending a tremendous amount of money on all those things you mentioned, yet you begrudge a $2 billion mission. There's $2 billion per DAY in waste and graft among the poverty programs that are already out there.

If you were to count up all the government spending on poverty, disease, etc. you would find that the NASA budget doesn;t even come close.

Originally posted by NoExpert
Really? I must have missed the rover the private sector landed on Mars.

That's because the private sector wasn't given a chance to pull it off. But since you seem to love government so much, please tell me why top government scientists like Lord Kelvin were saying "heavier than air" flying machines are impossible, and yet it was the private sector that proved them horribly wrong. Such examples of the private sector being vastly superior to government are so numerous that only a fool would believe bigger government is better for science.

>>
256 MB RAM?
i mean c'mon?
have all the brains been outsourced?
>>

What is your criteria for thinking it needs more memory?

It's not a computer needing to shove GB of data, and we can likely assume whatever their board computer is it won't run on Windows.

You can have a complex computer, for example running an entire Linux operating system on 16MB or so memory...such is the case in some broadband routers which are basically nothing else than "mini PCs"....or your Kindle ebook reader which is also Linux based as far as i know. It doesn't need 256MB.

You make the mistake to look at the average PC today and the requirements, but if we assume some customized OS (?) or scientific apps they run on the rover, 256MB could be more than plenty.

reply to post by Diablos


You mean these powers:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

That sounds like NASA to me.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
You mean these powers:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States

That sounds like NASA to me.

And how does a Mars Rover or space research in general provide for the "general welfare" or "common defense? And before you cite that fallacious PDF of "spinoffs", that was just NASA getting really lucky in some projects. The vast majority of NASA projects only benefit a few elite academics and absolutely bring no change to the life of the average American Joe (the taxpayer) nor does it provide for defense.

Also, your point is moot. Most constitutional experts interpret "to provide for the common defense and general Welfare" as national security. If everybody interpreted this part of the constitution as they pleased, then surely we America could descend to a socialist wasteland. Now you can play semantics all you want, but that doesn't change the fact the Founding Fathers were capitalists and not socialists and if they truly believed in taxation without representation and a welfare state, then they wouldn't have spent such great effort and time to write one of the greatest documents in history just to allow the federal government to do as it pleases so long as it "provides for the general welfare" in some sense. By that logic, the government can nullify entire amendments such as the right to bear arms just because of an obscure statement such as "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States". Fortunately, it doesn't work that way.

So scientific understanding doesn't constitute as welfare? You say that typing on your computer via internet...
Also you make it sound like NASA was formed yesterday. You know after ww2 there was this thing called cold war and those pesky soviets dominated every aspect of the space race. If that is not national security issue then nothing is.

Originally posted by PsykoOpsSo scientific understanding doesn't constitute as welfare?

Yes, of course it is. However, not all science is the same. Researching sciences with direct applications to the weapons and defense industries should be funded by the federal government because that is among the few powers the constitution designates to the federal government. Once again, the only scientific research that should be funded by the federal government according to the constitution is if it has direct or indirect applications to the military.

Originally posted by PsykoOpsYou say that typing on your computer via internet...

The idea of the computing and computers existed long before NASA even existed, and the Internet was a very useful by-product of military research in science, so that is a moot point.

Originally posted by PsykoOpsAlso you make it sound like NASA was formed yesterday. You know after ww2 there was this thing called cold war and those pesky soviets dominated every aspect of the space race. If that is not national security issue then nothing is.

I agree. NASA served a great purpose of national security during those days and its funding was hence justified. Now that it no longer specializes in mostly defense issues, the departments within it that are not related to defense should be privatized and sold to the private sector. Once again, I have no problem with states forming their own space agencies and funding them with the tax dollars of their residents, as that is allowed by the constitution.

We might have to just agree to disagree on this.
When it comes to space sciences benefitting the common man from the top of my head I can think of satellite tv, gps, internet and that sort of applications. Mars colony might not be the next vacation spot for a common man, yet. Exploring mars in detail has just begun.
Space race isn't over. It has just taken it's first few steps. Cold war is over and when that happened NASA mandate was changed to open the field for private industries in US. Any state would be free to start up their own agency. Also space endevours are just as much a diplomatic mission to strenghten relations and understanding between allies as it is gaining knowledge and building a scientific society that can deal with any space related security issues also.
Space is the way of the future and it if anything is a national and an international journey.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth

Originally posted by Junkheap

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Everything on this planet, came from this planet.

Actually, everything on this planet came from space.

I'll play along with the "technical" game. Actually, everything on this planet...was CREATED. Get over it already. Science makes not a difference on this planet. Earth is a planet of (GET THIS) SEED TIME and HARVEST. Nothing...and i mean NOTHING, not even science, can change that. IT IS SO! Like it, or not. I DARE YOU...with your science...to stop nature, from doing what nature is going to do: PRODUCE! Science has got nothing to do with (GET THIS) REPRODUCTION!

Do you people see through the eyes of REALITY....or is everything just an ILLUSION to you????

try seed time and harvest when our sun goes supernova, we'll need to exist on mars to buy more time to find other habitable planets, what can be created (by nature) can be destroyed you silly fool.

reply to post by SpittinTruth


i want to eat and see in the dark, so i dont become eaten, duh.

science doesnt destroy, tornados and droughts are what destroys your corn fields.
science can create a dome to protect your fields, and sprinkler systems can help your fields grow, here or on mars eventually...the times they are a changin.

reply to post by Kurokage


WOW...look at all of that beautiful land in that color photo on page 3 just ready to be fertilized and harvested, if only we could get there on your faith spitter of whatever your name is.