I am going to see God

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword

 

I have a question for you. Which is more beneficial, the productive lie or the destructive truth? When you are answering this question, factor into your logic processes the reaction humanity has to each, and what that would look like 500 years in the future.

Are lies ever productive and if so what do they produce
Is the Truth ever unproductive
Intention and the reason behind telling lies or truths is key I think

This^^^

Afterinffinity, your question is biasly phrased. Promoting a lie can never be deemed as beneficial. Religion is rigged against critical thinking and scientific advancement. It is a world where ignorance is wisdom and wisdom is a burden and mere vanity.

reply to post by randyvs


Dear Ranyvs
I hope you see your God I really do
From following your posts I feel you are one of the good guys
I am not a Christian but I do believe in a Creator and think the real Jesus was as a spokesperson for the Creator.
A living example
How can we say we do not know our Creator when the works are all around
We are within what the Creator is or a small part of it at least
I do not believe in original sin - I do however believe in past incarnations or lifes in which we make judgments of error which we carry forward as lessons yet to be learnt - But at the start of this adventure we call life - The slate is wiped clean for in the realms we go to when we pass on we understand all and vow to get it right this time.
Like how each day is a fresh opportunity to be who we and our Creator intends us to be.
We are meant to be Happy and content this is our Creators will yet who is it that mucks things up - Not our Creator but us.
I am an Eternal Optimist
Yes I hope you see your God - I am sure you will
.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I disagree with that. You are looking at it from one perspective, and it is actually all perspectives at once. You are making is absolute...and this is mankind's curse. We are cursed with absolutes where there are none and 50 shades gray and white and black where we need absolutes.

Our understanding of the universe is not perfect, just as with your understanding of time. It is how you choose to look at it, even though it's about as correct as saying that addition always comes out to a positive, whole number. In the right circumstances, yes, very true. In other circumstances, you couldn't be more wrong.

Just because you do not choose to look at it one way, does not make that way wrong. It simply says that you prefer vanilla over chocolate. Let the others enjoy their chocolate, it is not hurting you.

reply to post by artistpoet


What is a lie? Is it something you mistakenly tell as truth or something you purposely say as false? What if you believe something true by accident is that still true knowledge? Do you know for a fact that the eyes are not lying to us now by showing us a reality that is incomplete?

reply to post by randyvs

I believe that there is verifyable evidence that God, through the person of Jesus Christ as the son, performed a Great Work in our midst and in the midst of human history, in the form of a passover (see my signature for more on this).

But if people want tangible proof, I would like to propose a little experiment, which will work best if the participant suffers from some sort of sleep disorder, or sleeps fitfully, awakening each day run down and tired with little if no energy to face the day.

While attempting to go to sleep at night, in synchronicity with the breath, imagine the words on the intake "Jesus Christ son of God" and on the outbreath "have mercy on me, a sinner". Do that for a number of breaths, while at the same time asking for God's help in one form or another, say to give you strength, courage, increased patience and loving kindness, and to help you through whatever obstacle you may be facing, and also ask for a peaceful and deep sleep in order to better face the next day - and see what happens. This could then become a type of prayerful ritual whereby we give thanks in the evening for God's aid and assistance during the day, and in the morning, ask for God's help to overcome obstacles, grant us increased energy to perform the tasks of the day ahead, etc

Some may say this is just a trick of the unconscious mind at work, yet if they try this experiment with sincerety, you'll be forced to admit that what you have surely tried on your own, without God's help, wasn't working, but that when you brought God and his son Jesus Christ into the equation, lo and behold something profound has taken place, however subtle the alteration.

And because it works, at least in my experience it sure does, you are then faced with the very real probability, if not utter certainty, that you have made contact with God and have begun the process of developing God-consciousness which is awareness that God is with you, and sympathizes with your plight 100% and wants to help you, the only requirement being that you are willing to humble yourself and simply ask for his help.

reply to post by g0dhims3lf

Do you know for a fact that the eyes are not lying to us now by showing us a reality that is incomplete?

What if we're choosing not to see everything our eyes show us? What is lying at that point? Is anything lying? Or are we simply hiding?

Therein lies our issue. When truth brings pain and struggle, and lies bring ease and comfort, we will choose the illusion, the delusion, rather than face the truth of the universe. We are creatures addicted to comfort, and we fear the burn of the open light.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by artistpoet

 

How can this moment be gone? 'This' what ever you call it, will never be gone.
Presence is all.

edit on 8-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

The moment you speak of when writing has obviously gone.
By the time you read this it would have be written in the past
Yes the present is all there is but try to hold onto it as it slips into the past
How do you measure the present - A second a mili-second - How?
If all remained the same it would be a state of stagnation
The Suns Rays take 8 minutes or so to hit the Earth?

Why not accept everyone has their own view rather than keep up dogmatically pushing your own view on to me and telling me i am wrong. If you don't accept what i say move on.

Thing is I agree with what you are saying and I do not mind if you are fed up with me answering you with further points.
In all honestly I like what you say but want you to explain further IE Clearer
But fair enough I do not wish to annoy you so will leave it at that

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

 

Sorry friend, but in no way am I being negative. It seems you wish I was for whatever strange reason, maybe to justify your superficial dogmas or to appease your vanity. Whatever the case, I'm not here to convince you that your assumptions are based only on the anecdotes of an ancient and illiterate time, because I think you know that already. We both know you cannot provide a shred of anything factual, when I can show you a godless world by simply pointing in any direction and to any moment time. I have what's apparent and obvious on my side. You have a poorly written and irrelevant book on yours.

Abraham Lincoln once said just after he was done traveling the country to assess the damage and horrors of the civil war. He said in a speech of which one it was evades me at the moment. Anyway here is the quote of which will likely mean nothing to you. But it says quite a lot to me.

" I can understand how someone can look around at this world and say there is no God. What I can not fathom,
is how someone can look into the cosmos and make the same claim".
Honest Abe

I must admit, I do enjoy your outlook. I do think that a belief in god is probably necessary to some degree, usually to those unwilling to form their own interpretations in favour of clinging to the interpretations of others. Not all of us are capable of thinking philosophically.

About the quote: I dislike all quotes, especially irrelevant ones thrown around as if they mean something. Rather than hear from a deceased man who couldn't fathom anything outside the world because he's never sean the images of the Hubble telescope, I would prefer to hear what you have to say, someone who hopefully knows that in the cosmos, stars are formed by nebulas. Maybe another time.

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by artistpoet

 

What is a lie? Is it something you mistakenly tell as truth or something you purposely say as false? What if you believe something true by accident is that still true knowledge? Do you know for a fact that the eyes are not lying to us now by showing us a reality that is incomplete?

Good point you make - Yes when the thin veil we call reality is removed I am sure we shall say "Of Course- now I get it"

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I believe

This was all I needed to read of your entire sermon. People alse believe that Bush was a reptilian, that Queen Elizabeth eats children, and that the Earth is not only hollow, but that all of the stars and space we see at night is just one great big illusion, a projection by devices built by unknown groups or forces.

Sorry, but belief doesn't really do anything for me but demonstrate that everyone is willing to go to ridiculous lengths to avoid facing reality. It's a disgusting spectacle to behold, but ATS is full of them.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


but what is the truth of the universe but a theory one creates in their head. In which case it is a belief and not truth because truth requires justification but a belief does not but in order for something to be true it must also be believed to be true.

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

but what is the truth of the universe but a theory one creates in their head. In which case it is a belief and not truth because truth requires justification but a belief does not but in order for something to be true it must also be believed to be true.

There are many truths and one can know such truths
Sorta like we can know water is wet - yet this can not describe the experience of swimming in the sea.
I can know there is life after death but must await to know the experience of it.
I agree however that all theory is flawed in some way but it does not mean one should not speak one's own truth as in doing so others may enlighten one further or not

reply to post by artistpoet


Yes I agree and in the same sense one should never stop questioning the truths of the majority because sometimes enlightenment comes from being required to try and justify ones truth in different ways.

This moment that is happening presently is the truth. Direct experience. Conscious contact. Knowing presence. The 'being' of the present moment. This.
What is seen is transitory but what sees this is constant and never changing.
The seeing presence, the knowing presence.

reply to post by DeadSnow

Can someone explain how we are born with 'original' sin for actions we did not commit? I mean how is it that a day old baby is a sinner?

Pg 7 partner. Chuck Missler.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes but what if we were simply a thought of something we could not even fathom. Being that time is relavent what feels like an eternity to us might be a blink of an eye thought of something greater. The whole universe itself could just be a thought floating around in the brain of what one might call the "all knowing". When I dream sometimes there are others in my dream and they seem real and interact as if they exist.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Lies can indeed be productive. Allow me to iterate two examples to you. One is fabricated, the other a true story.

There is a man and a woman, and they have been happily married for 30 years. However, long ago before they were married but were seeing each other, the man had cheated on her. Only once, and never again. He tells her finally, because he's been carrying the guilt around for all that time. This marriage would have lasted until death, but all of it was destroyed in the moments it took to confess. Had he not told her, those last years of his life would have been spent with the love of his life. That skeleton was the only thing that ever went wrong. Should he have not told her?

The true story goes thus. There is a boy who was born to a woman who was seeing a man. That man was not the boy's father. However, he thought it was...until the boy was a teenager. Finally, the mother came out with the truth. The result? The boy was disowned. No, that boy was not me; however, a friend of mine told me about the boy because we were having a discussion very similar to this thread. The boy was cast from his family because of the truth. Would it have been better to lie by omission?

These are the cases I present to you, as proof that sometimes the truth does more harm than a lie. Now I ask that you answer my question: which is better for the world, a productive lie or a destructive truth? Remember, the productivity and destruction are simply our reaction to each.

What do you think?

edit on 8-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Do these pants make my butt look fat? My daughter answered, "Yeah, Mom, they're cargo pants! If you are worried about looking fat, don't wear those pants!"

Truth sometimes hurts, but isn't destructive, people are destructive. I can't think of anything more destructive than indoctrinating a young child to believe that they are wretched sinners in need of saving.

Getting an answer wrong on a test is not a sin. Ditching school isn't a sin, it's breaking a rule. Sin is an invention of liars, meant to keep people free from self respect. Deliberately keeping the spirit of mankind in blind ignorance by promoting a lie, and keeping them safe from the truth, for the betterment of one's ego is destructive, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by randyvs

 

wow.

What a fantastic post.

I'm going to see God, and Mum and all any other loved ones that leave this place whilst I'm still here.

Much ♥ to you too.

That's it Beaver. You get the simplistic power of the positive message, that is the essence of this thread. I felt so much inspiration to bring this message here. I just needed the right vehicle which I found over my whole membership here thus far, in the video.

Thank you for your interest.

reply to post by g0dhims3lf


You are the dreamer and what you see and experience is all dream.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I believe

This was all I needed to read of your entire sermon. People alse believe that Bush was a reptilian, that Queen Elizabeth eats children, and that the Earth is not only hollow, but that all of the stars and space we see at night is just one great big illusion, a projection by devices built by unknown groups or forces.

Sorry, but belief doesn't really do anything for me but demonstrate that everyone is willing to go to ridiculous lengths to avoid facing reality. It's a disgusting spectacle to behold, but ATS is full of them.

That's too bad. Let me rephrase - I am convinced, and invite you to look into it as well. I KNOW is too arrogant. How about you stop riding me over our past exchanges and look at what I'm offering and what I've put a great deal of effort into presenting, ya never know it could be of value.. ?