Christians cant eat lobster, wear polyester, wear gold, eat rabbit, have tattoos, get divrced, have

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by b14warrior

 

I am not a Christian, but I can tell you that your logic and insecurity of someones elses religion is extremely flawed!
Leviticus was from the old testament, (Torah) which was a set of laws for the Jews! NOT CHRISTIANS!
The New Testament is for the Christians!

Not sure why you have to post against someones religious beliefs if you don't yourself agree with them, and if you do, you might want to make sure that your posting is accurate!

edit on 5-8-2012 by seeker1963 because: wording

Yes...until the silly fundamentalist christians start talking about how they "believe" in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I have not once heard one of these people talk about "believing" in a literal interpretation of the New Testament.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by VeniVidi

Originally posted by LifeInDeath
There's also the part where they say that if you break God's law by working on the Sabbath the punishment is death...DEATH!

So, don't mow your lawn on Sunday and don't have a bar-b-que because cooking is work, too. Otherwise you might be smited.

edit on 8/5/2012 by LifeInDeath because: (no reason given)

Actually the true Sabbath is SATURDAY...

Actually its from sunset on Friday until sunset on Saturday...
It doesn't matter though, because Christ himself abolished the “no work” on the Sabbath rule.

Jesus never 'abolished' this rule, it is lawful to do good on the sabbath. Just like how the priest have to work on the sabbath people also need to be able to eat and prepare a meal as well. Don't confusion typical daily tasks like this with secular work. Jesus was showing the religious leaders at the time what was lawful to do on the Sabbath and what wasn't, that it wasn't meant to be a burden for people but a delight. That Sabbath rest is still in effect just like when it first came in in the Garden of Eden and it is continued to be kept in the New Heaven and the New Earth after the second coming of Jesus.

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. (23) and it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Malcher

The Bible, old and new testaments were written to reflect the times.

I agree completely.

Christians look at their Bible as being written by men, men are fallible.

lol!

Yeah that would be my position!

Christians look at the Bible that way!?

I thought the belief was the Bible, its words, were inspired by God as a result of direct communion with God. I agree it was written by mankind and mankind is fallible! A thumbs up from me bro!

Even still the old testament improved on some things that were considered normal for the times

If forcing a rape victim to marry their rapist is a moral improvement than I shudder to think what it was like before.

you guys cannot seem to grasp that the Bible was not written in 1985.

Wut?

The New Testament has some very profound passages...these people were very intelligent.

Profound yes. Profoundly immoral sometimes. I am very intelligent. What's your point with that?

The "Red Letter Bible" is what Jesus said.

I am aware.

I think the "union" or some form of contractual view of marriage first appeared in the old testament though. I would say this was an improvement, especially for women.

Nevermind the idea it first appeared in the Bible, elaborate on how that's an improvement for women.

edit on 7-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

Marrying a rapist is not part of Christianity and i dont think that is part of the Bible. Maybe you can elaborate on where you got this from. When did this occur?

Deuteronomy (old testament) does not use the term rape either if that is what you are referring to, could mean they just had sexual relations but also i think a rapist was stoned in those days although i am not really sure. It does state that he is obliged to financially support her and the child or something to that effect. Do not assume i am a biblical scholar and perhaps you know the old testament better than i do. Christians do not adhere to old testament, afaik.

I think marriage, especially at the time, was much better for a woman than just taking a woman because you could beat the crap out of the person she was with. So overall i would say it was an improvement given the times.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by murphy22

 

No argument from me there.

I am thankful for our moral understanding has evolved enough that we are not stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath.

Now it's time for Jesus to come back and make a New New Covenant that abolishes both the sin and the ritual of the OT.

You misunderstand what the purpose of humanities entire experience on this Earth is about and its role in the Universe at large. Satan sought to be equivalent to God in Heaven and did not want to be subject to the Divine Law any more. That angels should be above the commands instituted for the inhabitants of the lower created worlds. This was one of the main points of contention of the rebellion that ensured in Heaven where Satan (then Lucifer) suggested that God's character was cruel and severe based on the Divine Law that the angels were to obey. The whole point of our experience on Earth and what is being seen by all the other intelligent lifeforms in the universe is just what kind of a disaster and heartache those under Satan's command (as ruler of this world) experience and why we need the Divine Law to prevent sadness and pain. God made us to be parents so we can understand while caring for a child that certain rules are needed to prevent things going wrong. In a sense we are all God's children along with the heavenly angels that remain. The example of Earth will show why it will be right punishment for God to erase Satan from existence and why anyone who embraces sin has no place in heaven because they are not in-tune with God's character (this goes equally for so-called 'Christian's' that only honor God with their lips and not their actions - by their fruit you shall known them).

After the second coming of Jesus occurs and those that are not in 'the book of life' have been erased from existence along with Satan and the fallen angels there will never another issue of sin festering and growing in Heaven again. The history of Earth will show to the universe where sin leads so we will know by example why obedience to God and His Law is always ultimately for our own good even if he don't feel like it is the best thing we would choose for yourselves at the time.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

You misunderstand what the purpose of humanities entire experience on this Earth is about and its role in the Universe at large.

Wow! What a profoundly bold position to take. Well my fellow human, I think your religious belief that you understand God's mind is absolutely absurd to say the least. I think you're absolutely immoral to make such determinations of my belief simply because I don't believe in your belief. I do not profess the purpose of mankind, you do, and therefore the burden of proof is on you.

reply to post by defcon5


The necessary background information of why Satan was made ruler of this world is most clearly shown in the first few chapters of the book Patriarchs and Prophets (which is an Adventist Christian source who wrote about the visions that God gave her).
Chapter 1 Why was sin permitted?
Chapter 2 The Creation
Chapter 3 The Temptation and Fall

And also in her compilation book The Truth About Angels in chapters 3, 4, and 5.
- 3: Angels in Heaven, Before the Rebellion
- 4: The Origin of Evil
- 5: The Rebellious Angels Are Cast Out, and Adam and Eve Fall

You should find those resources fully explanatory for you leaving no doubt to what role Satan is playing here and why it is necessary to occur the way it is.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on these chapters

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

You misunderstand what the purpose of humanities entire experience on this Earth is about and its role in the Universe at large.

Wow! What a profoundly bold position to take. Well my fellow human, I think your religious belief that you understand God's mind is absolutely absurd to say the least. I think you're absolutely immoral to make such determinations of my belief simply because I don't believe in your belief. I do not profess the purpose of mankind, you do, and therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Are you up for some reading?

All the relevant information I just gave to Defcon5 to follow up on in the above post as well. Read away.

I understand God's mind in this point because He gave that author 2000 visions over the 60 odd years and became the most prolific and widely translated writer in American history because of what God showed her to write down. She on average wrote about 14 pages each day (25,000,000 words over her lifetime compared to the Bibles 800,000 odd words). That information is what God told her and when you read it the whole picture makes perfect sense. None of the information is my own.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


I am up to the reading! Thanks for the challenge. Truly, I appreciate it.

I am off to bed now however so the response will be after I wake and read it.

I understand God's mind in this point because.....

'Because'...I guess that's enough for some. Anyhoot I will carry on tomorrow.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

You have produced some decent texts here but you too are not understanding the full context of the Divine Law, the path of righteousness, and the need for repentance of transgression from the law still.

Your assumption is unfounded, and without knowledge. You mistake simplicity for ignorance.

There is a time for complexity, and there is a time for simplicity.
There is a time for depth, and a time to walk in shallow waters.

Why would you serve an entree of meat to those who are still in need of milk?

reply to post by kisharninmah

Well, now you don't seem mad. Before you did. I'm not mad either, but if you come after in a way that I think or feel is hypocritical, I'm going to say something. Anyway, it's like that for everybody who expresses an opinion that someone else strongly opposes. I really didn't assume anything about your views. I didn't actually think your were a christian. I'm an agnostic. And I am strongly for acceptance - beyond tolerance. I've read and studied religious texts too. I feel that you didn't see my perceptions the way you thought you did or think you can, and you made an assumption about me. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that is how I felt about the whole thing.

Personally, Im anal about " being on the same page" and at this time I think we are now on our way to seeing just how our views are the same and for this Im pleased.

Im also the type of person who loves trying to put myself in others shoes so I can see what they see via their perception and or experiences. So.... Lets do this.... Here are some of my views below.

I grew up in church... In and out of different denominations. My parents wanted me to find my own way rather than adopting their religion which was catholic and methodist. So.... Im still searching, however ive yet to find one religion that makes complete sense to me. So, ive adopted all of them because I think they each have a piece of truth.

I dont buy into the dogma. Since I was little I have had a sense of deep spiritual awareness that allows me to feel deeply for other people and animals as If I were them, only I do not feel their feelings per say. I know a lie when im told one and sometimes it makes me feel crazy as the liar will make their case seem as truthful as can be when Im thinking I know you are lying... I feel it..... Do I? I think so? Yes... You are lying. Lol I can just feel it, no other way to explain it.

My main reasoning for keeping Jesus a part of my life is not out of fear or guilt but out of love for who I think he was and is. The Bible is a great tool for me as I use it to see the bigger picture of our existence. Reading it like a book works better for me ad I feel I get the message easier if I focus on the whole rather than parts of it.

What I personally get out of the bible when reading it like a book is light and love. I think of Jesus as not a body per say but a warm and healing light that shines in the depths of darkness. Creation is filled with light and so... Thats how I view the entity people call Jesus. I also see him as like a brother thats showing me the way home to the best of his ability via text and what Im shown on a daily basis. Of course my experiences throughout my life have been traumatic whereas ive had to climb mountains for my sanity. The Bible is a great tool yet I dont take it literally and I believe each soul reincarnates until the soul has reached its potential. This I see in the Bible, while others dont. Everything else in between really doesnt mean that much to me. If I were to analyze the big book, I would say in my opinion its mens words mixed with some truth. Ive studied the history of it along with other religious texts and myths. Im totally fascinated by all of them. I see the light everywhere and in every single thing. :-)

I hope for a world thats filled with understanding and exceptance for all of mankind. I long for slavery to end for our human race whereas we are no longer servants to our government. We can one day work and have fun in our communities where bartering is had without the trade of paper/ money. I really hope the Earth can hold out a little longer before she gets rid of the parasites that are harming her daily. I want to teach my kids and not have someone else tell me how, what, and when to teach them. Public school is fun and my kids love it, however they have no choice what they learn until their college days and for that I do not like schools. I want my kids to study what they want and be the best at it. I guess im sort of a rebel.... with a cause though. Lol

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


you are asking if slaves can sell other slaves. If you get a birth cert for your children you signed them into slavery. Nice try but you don't recognize you are a slave without borders,,,, yet

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by b14warrior

 

Yet not a single christian lives according to these rules. But I guess it is okay since they can just ask Jesus for forgivance... Does not matter if you murder someone or just lie to someone as you are still accepted into heaven as long as you ask for forgivance...

"Let sin increase that grace abound," is a topic Paul brings up and is discussed in the NT. No, of course not! However, I'm not sure why you are so bitter towards us. We don't bomb people to death. We don't slit throats and drag behind a truck. We don't throw unbelievers in jail. And we have the ten commandments that preserve unbelievers lives more often than they would like to know.

Most Christians are like unbelievers, probably 70 percent or more have never been taught to think critically. We have been exploited and killed by violent people for two thousand years now.

One Christian lived by these rules: Jesus! No one else can attain that much perfection. No.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Lucid: it does say that in Leviticus. I read the whole bible every two years and its true. However, you probably don't and have never taken the book in its entirety. The peoples of that time enslaved entire communities if they were conquered. This includes the hebrews who were beholden to the conquerors around them too. The heads of little children were slammed against the rocks, women raped, fathers killed. The woman, having lost her family would have to marry her husband's murderer. So for perspectives sake: yes, this is the way it was. The bible is saying here: love your own brethren at least. "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." EX 21:15

You have to admit the veneer of civilization is thin at best. The bible tells it like it is, not necessarily saying it is right or wrong, just the facts. Another point: which is why we needed Jesus to complete the law and perfect it. To cite and example, Pauls eagerness to have his slave Onesimus released by Philemon is another example of where the NT is a little more hopeful to end slavery. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

reply to post by b14warrior
Sounds like to me your angry at Chik Fil A

reply to post by MamaJ


Hi, thank you for your post and sharing a little about who you are and your beliefs. I appreciate it. I grew up Catholic. I started studying other sects of Christianity when I was just out of high school. I was a very devout Christian, a fundamentalist. Even as a kid, I had always wanted to hear preachers speak. My views started to change when I moved to a new city. At the time, it seemed like all the people I came across, calling themselves Christians, were the meanest, self-serving individuals who condemned others while they themselves were horrible people. I met a woman who was a Wiccan and a lesbian. She was (and still is) one of the kindest people I’ve met. Genuinely caring about others and the Earth. I would think: how is this person going to hell, when this Christian is a lying, cheating hateful person? That’s when I started studying other religions. I've also thought all religions have a piece of the truth. I connected with Buddhism a lot while still adhering to my Christian beliefs. In retrospect, I think I was afraid. As a Christian, we are taught that if it’s not Jesus, it’s Satan. However, I grew out of these believes, as I started learning, educating myself. My degree is in science. Plenty of my science peers are devout Christians so it wasn’t science education. If anything science deepened my appreciation for the beauty of nature. I’ve had my struggles though, like you, and that changed my life in many ways. I went through a spiritual crisis where I had felt abandoned by God. With help, I did find peace with my experiences. I don’t believe like used to though. Through a lot of “soul” searching, I became an agnostic. I think that if Jesus was real, most of his teachings/message has been lost in time. The only one I hold is the Golden Rule. When asked what the greatest commandment is, he gave two answers, one of which was love your neighbor as yourself. But this is in almost every religion in some form around the world, religions that are much older than Christianity/Judaism. For me, religion is a coping mechanism. It helps people cope with the unknown. Some of the people on here, while defending slavery, say we are enslaved by Capitalism. I guess in some metaphorical way. But I think religion can also enslave people, in a metaphorical way. I think any “God” that rules by fear is not a loving. I also think that if there is a God, we could never really understand what that means, nor can we define that in any book. I know some people may want to express their love and their knowledge of God. Though I appreciate the sentiment behind it, it isn’t necessary. I know there is a lot of good that can come from a spiritual life. I find reincarnation fascinating, always have, and some passages in the bible can be interpreted to support it. (Actually, reincarnation was a belief by some Christian sects before the King James bible was established.) I do think we are all connected. I think when one of us harmed, we are all harmed by the same action. I believe we are connected to this Earth and that we should protect our Earth. It breaks my heart when people don’t care. I think people are empathic (which is what you interpret as feeling when someone is lying), though some may be more in-tuned with it than others (as you are) and reading body language is something women are good at in general. I feel like I could be a cold reader with a little training. I’ve had some weird stuff happened to me that I might post in another forum at some point on ATS, but for the most part, I think all phenomena can be explained with the proper understanding of science/physics. I also feel deeply hurt by crimes against humanity. I believe tolerance is only the first step. We need to accept others and their beliefs in order to grow as a civilized world. I wholly support gay people in the endeavor for equal rights and have a strong aversion to those who call them sinners. Anyway, TMI maybe. Just thought I would share with you as you have with me. =) Those are my beliefs, how they evolved to what they are now. I don’t impose my beliefs on anyone. But I’ll state what they are and will speak up to hypocrisy or just plain awfulness, like when someone defends slavery, ancient or otherwise. I long for slavery to end too. So though our beliefs are slightly different, we are on the same page about a lot of things. Namely, acceptance beyond tolerance, care for the Earth, the ending of slavery and other crimes against humanity, etc. We are all one. =)

OP,

I have three basic rebuttals to your claim(s).

1. The Gospel of Mark says that Jesus declared all foods clean.

Mark 7:18-19, NASB

18 And He *said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Therefore, Christians have good Biblical reason to eat whatever they want. This includes lobster and pork. Your argument, or illustration, does not take this fact into account, and therefore is invalid.

2. Though shaving your beard and wearing mixed linens are not directly addressed in the New Testament, it is generally addressed, and overturned, by St. Paul in the following passage:

Romans 10:4, NASB

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Further, the New Testament declares in two separate passages that love is the ultimate fulfillment of the law. Therefore, the Christian need not worry concerning his beard or his clothes. So long as he is living by the true Christian virtue of love, he is fulfilling all of the Old Testament law.

Romans 13:10, NASB

Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5:14, NASB

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “ YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF (emphasis retained from the original text of the NASB).”

Therefore, we find once more that Christians have good Biblical reason to disregard these Old Testament laws.

3. Finally, homosexuality - gay activity and lesbianism - are clearly denounced in the following passage from the New Testament:

Romans 1:26-27, NASB

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

To sum up, homosexuality is a degrading passion; it is unnatural, indecent, and in error, according to the New Testament. One need not invoke the Old Testament law in order to demonstrate the fact that homosexuality is against God's natural created order.

That being said, I do not hate gays or lesbians. On the contrary, I believe that they have every right to live their lives as they see fit (Joshua 24:15, Deuteronomy 30:19), so long as "it neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket" (Thomas Jefferson). We all must appear before the judgement seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10).

Cheers,
Cody

reply to post by b14warrior


It never stops amusing me how people can be so combative about things they don't believe in. I don't believe in Santa Clause or Bigfoot but I"m not willing to post condescending threads about it or argue with people over it.

Everyone gets it, you're super cool and don't believe in God. So move on to something that matters in your life that you do believe in. I know - I know "but those Bible thumper say this or that". So what? Does your doing the same make it better? No, it doesn't. You believe them to be condescending know it alls that just have to spout their hypocrisy day in and day out so the desire to say na-na boo-boo is just too overwhelming.

Also a bit amusing to me is many of this ilk will say "Hey! don't lump all this or that group together!!! That's just the extremists. But is not this thread doing exactly the same thing? Those silly Christians, they sure are a whacky bunch eh? There are those like myself that do not believe in gay marriage and support this ideal by not marrying a gay person. So for me the problem is solved. Do the Bone dance with who you want and worship a head of lettuce if that's your thing. It's not liek you are one of those goofy Bigfoot watchers...

reply to post by Klassified

Why would you serve an entree of meat to those who are still in need of milk?

Who are you to say they don't need meat?

reply to post by milominderbinder


It's the things they DO take literally that frustrates me. And the worst part is, I can't even TRY to make heads or tails of it, because they can't have an open-minded discussion.

It's the most unproductive topic in the history of mankind.

reply to post by kisharninmah


I absolutely love science... Always have. My son who is 15 is going to be my scientist. He and I have many deep converstaions about the love we have for astronomy, physics, quantam mechanics, and more. I look up space weather and eq's daily. My love for facts and always analyzing is the reason why I left christianity. The preachers never wanted to engage in conversation with me because they didnt have an answer for all of the inconsistencies I brought to light.

Over the years Ive had many more tell me im not a christian and so now.... I believe them. Im not. I call myself a "seeker of truth" if one is looking to lable me.

I read the Bible like a book in 1997 And again in 2000.... cried the first time because I was confused as to whether circumcise my son or not. In the end I chose to. I remember being cautious when I ate pork as a child because I over heard a friend of mine saying they dont eat pork per the Bible and she showed me where it was... I almost fainted. I think I was ten or so.

My mom put me in a church of christ school for two yrs and of course they didnt believe in dancing. I was asked not to return after the second yr because I questioned the bible teacher too much. I was forced to sit outside the classroom because I was more of a disruption. I was in the eighth and ninth grade... Lol ahhhhh..... I loved it though. I loved questioning and still do.

When my son was in kindergarten he was told by his friend he was going to hell when he died because he didnt believe in satan or hell. Of course, Jody comes home crying and I was so mad...... Went to the school, talked to the teacher and the parent. Kindergarten? Really? Already kids are taught at the young of an age to not only pass judgement but to tell another they will burn for eternity?? Wow! I made the choice to not place fear in my kids heart unless it was to fear me. Im their mom and they better fear me. Hmmmmm? Is this what our father is saying? Fear me little girl ... Or else? Possibly but no father would throw their kid in an eternal fire. Thats just absurd! Waaay too dramatic for my taste.

I believe in God because at a you g age of six I had memories that carried through my adulthood in regards to the paranormal. Also, ive experienced a lot of death around me and the ones who have passed on have sent signs that are not easily passed on as imagination. The instances happen at the most random times. I feels as though I have a sixth sense... Maybe more. Lol im just perplexed with the mysteries and enjoy putting pieces of the puzzle together even though I will neber truly know the bigger picture. Its still fun to ponder.

The hate I see daily hurts me. I feel it beyond comprehension sometimes. I really do wish and hope for the day everyone is accepted with love.... No matter their difference. The only person I know of in history who was said to achieve such love was the man they call Jesus. For me.... He is the light that shines through the darkness. He is our sun who allows life on this planet.

Science and the study of space has enhanced my belief in a God much more than religion ever has... Or could.