The Problem with Greer

reply to post by Kandinsky

Would it even be out of the question for someone to specifically hire a heli for a certain time?

Hell no, post when you have the pics! lol

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Just for fun, I had a look to see if CSETI ran a helicopter - no joy there. In the process this made me smile...a number of stunning cases involving CSETI. Saucers, aliens and black triangles are like the proverbial flies around Greer.

Great find there, Kandinsky!

Some of those CSETI write-ups are jaw-droppingly hilarious!

I [Shari Adamiak] could mentally 'hear' concerned conversation going on amongst the small beings. They eventually conveyed to me the message, again mentally, that they were having difficulty adjusting our energies in preparation for a meeting because my physical energy was concentrated on my stomach, trying to digest some food. Just before all this began, I had eaten about a half of a Power Bar, a dense protein energy food. It was cold and hard from being in my gear bag for hours and I could feel it kind of just laying in my stomach. At this point, I sent a very deliberate message to the life forms: "I give you permission to take it out of my body".

And for those who have donated their money to the Sirius scam – don’t get too excited with the prospect of seeing any amazing CSETI video evidence –

CSETI field trip December 1993

Around 11:45 p.m. Dr. Greer directed our attention to a light that was moving obliquely near our position. We excitedly began signaling it with our lights, and it changed direction directly towards us. As it approached, we could see that it was triangular shaped with a white light at each corner and a red beacon in the center. It was totally silent, highly maneuverable and came towards us in a wide arc. Flying close behind the craft was another smaller craft which seemed to be escorting the larger ship that was a least 300 feet across. The actual span of that beautiful, dark and silent craft may have actually been closer to two or possibly three football fields in size.

The craft descended to less than 500 feet and turned on an incredibly powerful bank of forward mounted lights. It slowed down considerably while continuing to respond to Dr. Greer's light signals. As we each rushed to our camera equipment, things started to go wrong. The craft stopped its descent and its flight behavior changed dramatically. Up until then, the UFO had appeared to be simulating the flight pattern of a conventional aircraft intending to land. Instead it slowly started to turn in a wide arc, which allowed us to clearly see its underside. Even though it aborted its false landing, the craft continued to answer our light signals.

As all this was happening, we suddenly realized that all our cameras, video, 35mm. automatic SLR, and even a cheap 110 spring activated camera were not operational. The video was clearly on but nothing was being recorded and we even checked to see if the lens cap was off! Our seven hundred dollar 35 mm camera was also on, yet it would not function and the Brownie- type camera would not even click when the button was pushed.

CSETI field trip December 1994

I became aware of a telepathic message - they [the miniature ETs] were concerned about our video camera, behind me to the right. I turned my head and looked. Sure enough, unknown to me previously as I had not seen it in the dark, was our teammate's professional camera set up on a tripod. I send back the mental message to them not to worry, the camera wasn't on and we wouldn't let him touch it.

and the following day…

During the lengthy encounter, we sent light signals to the craft. The craft would signal back to us in the exact same sequence. Then its lights would extinguish. Within a few minutes, it would again illuminate and initiate a signal to us. This went on and on. Twice during this time period, we saw the shadows of beings walking in front of the blinding beam. At times, the beam would rotate upon itself, appearing to the left of its original position - then back where it was. Once the light seemed to turn over on itself, illuminating the sparsely forested slope behind it. This was one of the times when figures were seen to move in the beam…

Interestingly, our videographer teammate was absent from field work. He had decided to stay in the city to visit his friend and her son.

Further...

As we were riding on our 30-minute drive home, Dr. Greer remarked that he felt the ETs would follow us. Within a minute, the man in front was exclaiming, "la luz, la luz!" (the light, the light!) We could then see that the gigantic light was visible from the road, showing itself to us on the opposite side of the mountain from where it had been at our field site! We stopped at a closed gas station, signalled and videoed (which came out fuzzy and blurred).

You couldn’t make this stuff up!

Wait a minute! Of course you could!!

reply to post by torsion

The photo was taken by one of Greer's staff, not by me which is why there is no digital copy.

All the red, orange and yellow dots are the orbs. The hotels are to the south as can easily be seen on google. The camera was aimed west. You can prove this from the mangrove and the outer islands which are visible on the photo and google. Also. if they were hotel lights or lights from any structure they would be aligned and similar in appearance, which is obviously not the case.

As for the aerosol trick, I have not heard of it and it is a possibility. However, it would sure seem pretty hard to me to get all the bubbles in the same region of the picture and pretty much lined up and not disturb the other foreground and background data in the picture.

As for the helicopter being staged, I would sure like to see (picture or in person) a commercial or private helicopter with a 6' by 10' bank of lights on the side and with enough electrical power to light them all up and illuminate a large area enough to look almost like daylight. That is the kicker to me that proves it wasn't staged. And since 9/11 anyone trying to do something that unusual would have drawn considerable scrutiny and probably been reported to police and DHS.

I did spend about 10 hours looking for a photo of a helicopter with any kind of lighting bank on it and have had no such luck. I have seen such pictures at some time in my life, and clearly recall they were on a military special ops type of chopper.


And you should reread the post i did where I talked about the remote viewing aspects of the chopper incident. M was clearly relaying an accurate picture of something she had no real life experience of.

reply to post by fah0436


The orbs: a picture taken by a staff member of something you could not see with your eyes. It's not what you would call controlled conditions. But hey! Let's give that gaping hole a pass for the sake of argument. You've got some colored lights, some orbs that only the camera could see. What does that prove?

The helicopter: It was a helicopter. I don't think anyone is denying that. It had a bank of lights on it. It seems reasonable to assume that was to light up the area. Was it there to SPY on the group? Was it there to DISRUPT the experience? Was it flown by the Bad Guys(tm)? Was it there to "chase off" the orbs? Nobody seems to know. You're pretty sure it was a helicopter. That's the only thing you really know. What does that prove?

These are fairly mundane experiences. You couldn't see any orbs, but the magic camera can. And you saw a strange helicopter. Then you extrapolate this into a religious experience that proves what? I dunno. What?

It's like I saw two strange ravens in my back yard a few minutes ago. I've never seen them before, and I've never seen two together before. Ravens are a mythological creature important in the pantheon of Native Americans, therefore God must be talking to me.

The problem is that the reported experience does not justify the conclusion.

When I examine the orb issue, I come to a completely different conclusion. I can't see the orbs with my own eyes. A staff member takes a picture with his camera, and orbs appear on the print. My conclusion is that the orbs came from the camera. I don't know how. I am not really compelled to explain how. If you want to do this in a controlled experiment kind of way and give me the camera, maybe we can find out, but, of course, that never happened. I trust my own eyes, so the fact that the magic camera can see something I can't is suspicious. The point is that my conclusion is rational from the points I know.

When I look at the helicopter experience I (and all of us, I think) agree that this was a helicopter. Now I want to know where that helicopter was from. I'd be angry that it disrupted my serene camping trip. Helicopters have a very low range. It absolutely must be within a certain range of where I was. I'd have taken a picture of it, gone after it, and tried to do some forensic analysis to figure what they were up to. One thing is for sure: It was a helicopter, not an apparition. Nothing supernatural about it.

reply to post by fah0436


Treat the inside of the magic camera lens with the *orbs", before taking of photos. .Any number of tinted gel products would work fine.....multiple photos, multiple interchangable lenses.....easy peasey.....

Des

Greer is a douche. His claims over the years that some great event that will change the world would enlighten everyone....those never materialized. Anyone here surprised? A lot of the hoaxers make the exact same claim. He just plays to the hardcore believers who will keep drinking his kool-aid and happily signing over their deeds and bank accounts. There is no shortage of suckers.

reply to post by Destinyone


It wouldn't even require a whole lens, but just a lens filter.
That. of course, is if the camera has interchanging lenses and filters and such.

Whatever the case, any camera can be prepared using any variety of methods.
Spraying a mist to be caught by the flash is one method as mentioned, while also tampering with the lens or lens filter would work.
There's any number of methods that can be used, and where someone is in the business of photographing orbs, you can bet they've gotten whatever technique they use down to a science.

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by fah0436

 

The helicopter: It was a helicopter. I don't think anyone is denying that. It had a bank of lights on it. It seems reasonable to assume that was to light up the area. Was it there to SPY on the group? Was it there to DISRUPT the experience? Was it flown by the Bad Guys(tm)? Was it there to "chase off" the orbs? Nobody seems to know. You're pretty sure it was a helicopter. That's the only thing you really know. What does that prove?

edit on 8/9/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

The discussion in this post
www.abovetopsecret.com...
should answer all your above questions. The answers are quite clear to me.

With regard to the photo being faked, it still seems to me that it would require a lot of skill and luck to have injected the orbs onto the photo where they were without disturbing the other aspects of the photo especially with all the differences in sizes and colors and translucent appearance. And why cut them off? Oh - I know - to make it more believable, right?

I hear a lot of words and ideas on how the photo could be faked, but no substantial evidence.
I've provided my evidence as best I can.
Someone who thinks this was faked should certainly be able to provide some real evidence with similar type pictures.
When I see that kind of evidence, I might change my mind about the picture.

And keep in mind, whatever faking was done had to be done at night on a cold, windy and sandy beach.

Originally posted by RongoRongo
reply to post by fah0436

 

Picture of orbs. Marco Island.

You can sit on the docks at Walker's in Goodland and see these all night long most any evening that it isn't raining. Assuming you can put up with the no-seeums. They are legendary to that fishing village and the full time inhabitants have dozens on dozens of clear, concise pictures.

Sure would like to see some of those pictures and compare them to mine.
Can you see them with the naked eye as well as in the photo?

reply to post by fah0436


I'm going to try reminding myself to go outside tonight, or when I can remember to do so, with a flash to create some orb pictures.
I invite everyone or anyone else to also participate.

Let's make orb pictures and compare results with how we made them!

Regardless whether posting in this thread, having stock self-made orb photos your own will certainly be of value in future debates regarding similar claims regarding orbs, ghosts, or whatever else have you that can be easily faked.

Originally posted by fah0436
king was done had to be done at night on a cold, windy and sandy beach.

No, it didn't. If, indeed, a filter was used, it could have been pre-staged. You just think the fakery took place on a windy and sandy beach at night. The main tool of a magician is deception.

But still, you have some suspicious orbs only the magic camera can see---and a helicopter.

So?

You've got a whole lot of nothing there. Greer's got you hook, line, and sinker.

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by fah0436

 

When I look at the helicopter experience I (and all of us, I think) agree that this was a helicopter. Now I want to know where that helicopter was from. I'd be angry that it disrupted my serene camping trip. Helicopters have a very low range. It absolutely must be within a certain range of where I was. I'd have taken a picture of it, gone after it, and tried to do some forensic analysis to figure what they were up to. One thing is for sure: It was a helicopter, not an apparition. Nothing supernatural about it.

edit on 8/9/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

In my remote viewing discussion, when I approached M privately, the was my intent, to figure out where the helicopter came from, or at least the command center that was controlling it as described by M.

I was really hoping she would have described a military unit type patch worn on a uniform. If i could have gotten that from her, I would have searched the internet for something similar, got her concurrence/agreement then tried to track the unit to a location.

But she focused in on rank insignia. You go with what you get. Maybe was just as well.

Actually, can we get a photo analysis expert to look at the photo and see if it was faked?

That is the real question.

I've seen phages and boondocks work and I would respect any conclusions they come to.

reply to post by fah0436


Send a U2U to Phage then. Send link to this thread, and link to your photo so that we can all see his public analysis of your photo that you have just agreed to respect as an expert opinion.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by fah0436
king was done had to be done at night on a cold, windy and sandy beach.

No, it didn't. If, indeed, a filter was used, it could have been pre-staged. You just think the fakery took place on a windy and sandy beach at night. The main tool of a magician is deception.

But still, you have some suspicious orbs only the magic camera can see---and a helicopter.

So?

You've got a whole lot of nothing there. Greer's got you hook, line, and sinker.

A filter of course could have been prestaged. But getting it on the camera and aligned and spaced correctly under those conditions? I don't think so.

And there's more, much more that people aren't listending to or more likely don't want to hear.
And the experiences back each other up and fit together as a whole and logically can't be decoupled as many here repeatably try to do.
And i haven't heard a convincing argument or discussion far less evidence to provide an reasonable 3D scientific explanation of ANY of my experiences. If the photo was faked, there should be some evidence. Where is it????

Overall description
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Multiple people seeing same alien faces.
Remote viewing of the helicopter and its mission control center.
Sound detectors going off, one of which was powered off.
Light flashes all around every few seconds. Many different shapes, colors, sizes, directions and elevations.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


My experience with footsteps on the water.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



ORB Picture and details.
More details on helicopter
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Description of beach/park and related security.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I'll throw in one more story which I just remembered.

At multiple times, multiple people saw the same section of the sky blocked out as if a cloaked type spaceship was slowly transiting the area and blocking the stars "behind" it. The pattern was not stationary but was moving across the sky. The stars (a group of them) would be invisible and those in the "path" of the vehicle would become invisible while those "tailing" the object would become visible again. At times, an entire constellation was affected. Orion seem to be the favorite such constellation and was usually quite high in the sky.

Originally posted by fah0436
Actually, can we get a photo analysis expert to look at the photo and see if it was faked?

That is the real question.

I've seen phages and boondocks work and I would respect any conclusions they come to.

Feel free to upload to photobucket or imagshack and send to me, or post here....I can see if IM able to help.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by fah0436
Actually, can we get a photo analysis expert to look at the photo and see if it was faked?

That is the real question.

I've seen phages and boondocks work and I would respect any conclusions they come to.

Feel free to upload to photobucket or imagshack and send to me, or post here....I can see if IM able to help.

The photo on discussion is linked in a post by member fah0436 here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by fah0436
Actually, can we get a photo analysis expert to look at the photo and see if it was faked?

That is the real question.

I've seen phages and boondocks work and I would respect any conclusions they come to.

Feel free to upload to photobucket or imagshack and send to me, or post here....I can see if IM able to help.

The photo on discussion is linked in a post by member fah0436 here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

ah thanks! ok doing some "analysis" based on the alleged time/date/location....

ok...w/ the approximate time/date/location/direction .....from stellarium... (3/10/11 around 11:30pm, facing west).....so the date/time/location /direction is correct or assumed?

It was taken roughly 1130 PM on March 10, 2011.
Any photo analysis expert can probably compute a more exact time based on star patterns in the picture.
Location, Marco Island off Florida. The picture was fairly obviously taken on a western axis with the gulf in the background.

ETA......
plugged in wrong info...be back w/ correct....