The Problem with Greer

Originally posted by RenalFailure
H8ers gotta h8.
Gonna have a fit
Liars gotta lie
Thsi thread is full of ....

How very profound. Thanks so much for your insightful contribution.

KANDINSKY. Thanks for that information! That was a great article.

Re: The Press conference witnesses. I also think some of them were very good--not all of them, mind you. He had some real stinkers in there, but in terms of what the conference did for Disclosure:

Nothing. It was a complete failure. Its purpose was to prod for congressional hearings. It failed in that. At the time Greer said it was because 9/11 happened just a couple of months later so attention was drawn elsewhere, so even Greer acknowledged that it did not work. The ultimate goal was "disclosure," i.e.: The government coming clean and telling what it knows. That didn't work either. There has been no disclosure. Now it's fast fading into obscurity.

In terms of camping trips, it appears that Greer has escalated. There are a lot of stories about them. You can find many of them by reading reviews of Greer's books on Amazon where attendees will tell their stories. And, of course, some of them have been shared here. The first ones were "lights in the sky" experiences where hoots of owls were interpreted as space brothers communicating. Then we have the invisible colored orbs that you cannot actually see until someone takes a picture of the otherwise normal sky, then shows you the colorful orbs. My question is, what does that prove? Even if we take this at face value and say there really are orbs, albeit invisible ones, in the sky at night, how does that prove space brothers? Then we have the experience of hearing "multiple footsteps coming over the water converging directly on me. When they reached me, I was tingling all over, intensely."

Umm. OK. But no one was within 50 feet and you couldn't see anything and you were afraid "they" were going to "take" you, but the footsteps proceeded down the beach. Any pictures of the footsteps? Well, no. You just heard them. Here again we're dealing with invisibility at night. I know we've gone over this before, but my point is to show the escalation from distant lights to more personal experiences.

And THEN we have the next escalation, this time invisible aliens in invisible space ships crawling all over people, but once again, you can't see them.

This escalation reminds me of users who need an ever higher dose to maintain the effect. Lights in the sky are no longer good enough. People are tired of lights in the sky. They want more. So Greer gives them more as he raises the price for his outings. So with Greer saying the aliens are present, and other attendees (or assistants) saying the aliens are there, the peer pressure is on to say you see them, too.

It's really a matter of the Emperor's New Clothes. And it's a great case study in the power of suggestion.

reply to post by schuyler


It's one thing I keep saying over and over is that susceptibility to social influences coming from direct, or implied suggestion, and sometimes outright trickery is often sorely underestimated.

Everyone likes to think "You can't fool me!", but, it happens all the time, albeit mostly in little ways where behavioral adaptations are adopted dependent on environmental influences.
You act one way, and express certain socially acceptable opinions around your professional peers/coworkers, where you act and present yourself in another fashion among casual friends/acquaintances, and still another around family.
It's an automatic adjustment, and we allow ourselves to shift into these seamlessly without even realizing we're doing it. Our behaviors become locked into environmental influences, and through such, we become sympathetically attuned to those influences.
This suggestibility is easy enough to hijack and control where assistants planted in a crowd or group can play the Alpha roles directing everyone else into sympathetic compliance.

Some of this can be see in Milgram's studies regarding obedience to authority, where on a larger social consciousness level we have Jung's collective unconscious permeating social awareness.

Susceptibility to these influences depends somewhat on a subject's own personal biases, where as described in this thread, if someone perceives everyone in a group on a beach is seeing invisible aliens, and they've paid good money to have experiences too, plus there's social cognitive pressures expressed claiming that people who are not-evolved enough won't experience anything, they're predisposed and preconditioned to have experiences their own which they then attribute to invisible aliens. Who wants to be seen as un-evolved in a circle of their peers?
And later, who want's to admit they've been fooled or taken for a ride?

It's a fool's game staged at tent revivals, candle-lit seances, and especially in cults.
As has been said, it's Emperor's New Clothes.
We've ample children's stories and fables aplenty that describe these things, yet, Briar Rabbit keeps getting stuck in the tar baby, and Brair Fox keeps getting manipulated into letting him go.
Who's the Walrus, Carpenter, and the Clam?

reply to post by Druscilla


You make some good points. I suspect anyone is susceptible. I've seen stage magicians up close and personal in small audiences perform feats that were just unreal. Jaw dropping Impossible. But they did them with no props whatsoever, just a guy standing on a stage. I know I was manipulated. In fact, in one case the guy said so. Add some inside help like in Las Vegas, and you can do just about anything.

When you see Greer speak or read the accounts of his sessions it is just painfully obvious that he wants to be in total control. He's a control freak and will brook no opposition to the point of deriding and castigating his audience. Since he's the Doctor, you'd better obey! I highly recommend the article put up by Kadinsky just a few posts back. It turns out the author of that article also wrote a book called Apocalypse pretty soon which features Greer.

reply to post by thetiler


The Robert Salas Disclosure "briefing" is a great example of military disinformation

Some of these "military" briefings are so blatantly hoaxes yet because they are "military" they can hide behind the old -- "you can't prove me wrong" claim even though yes -- they are proven wrong.

James CarlsonJuly 14, 2012 6:14 PM That's a pretty damaging summary, Tim... It's a shame that Robert Salas won't even discuss the points you've made, let alone explain them or answer a few choice questions. From his point of view he doesn't have to. After all, he still claims that Eric Carlson, Walter Figel, and Frederick Meiwald have all confirmed his story of UFO interference at the Echo and Oscar Flights, implying that none of the assertions and/or opinions expressed above couldn't possibly have come from Eric Carlson, Walter Figel, and Frederick Meiwald. He's adopted a position that allows him to ignore everything else going on at Malmstrom AFB in March 1967, and that's exactly what he's been doing these many, many years. On the other hand, your assessments are a lot more fun to read than the ever-evolving versions of the story he's presented -- they're also a heck of lot more consistent!

Wow this film director actually believes Bob Lazar?

I have little to ad to the argument bob lazar is fake other then when I first seen and heard his claim back in the 80s I did an image reading of old bob and came away with total fakery from this guy. Then when he made the video of him and his prized corvette racing up I laughed since he was doing a starky and hutch routine for the camera. Then when the whore house story broke, It further destroyed anymore BS from old bob as far as I was concerned. I read people and old bob is as phony as a two peckered billy goat. Is it ok to write stuff like that here? As for Dr steven Greer, he's a reptilian draco seeking power and a following.

So someone compares Bob Lazar to Greer -- I wonder if the Greer cult followers missed the whole Lazar sensation of the early 90s?

To be honest this is why I don't really even believe in UFOs at all anymore.

They're always saying, 'the proof is close', 'disclosure is coming', the 'consciousness shift' is going to happen. But you know what, I'll expect Jesus to come back on a freakin' horse before I expect the UFOs to land. It's sad, but I just can't believe anymore.

Picture of orbs. Marco Island.




Additional notes about the picture.
It is a 600DPI color scan of a hardcopy picture (all I really had).
It was taken roughly 1130 PM on March 10, 2011.
Any photo analysis expert can probably compute a more exact time based on star patterns in the picture.
Location, Marco Island off Florida.
Here is a URL to the location on google maps where the group circle was located (circle was at center of picture):

goo.gl...

You can see the smaller mangrove in the picture and via Google Maps.
The picture was fairly obviously taken on a western axis with the gulf in the background.
The distance to the orbs appeared to be between 100 to 200 feet from the center of the circle, but they may have been closer.

The orbs where not visible to the naked eye, at least for any significant period of time.

Additional notes about the helicopter.

It was first observed/detected by Greer and M using remote viewing like capabilities. The entire group was watching as it approached. We first saw it with normal navigation lights at a range of about a mile and a height of about 1000 ft coming from the east. We heard the sound of the blades not too much later. It appeared to be headed directly for us. About a half mile out, one side (forget which one) became bathed in light as a bank of lights were switched on. (More details on the lights later). The helicopter passed us about 300 hundred feet to the north of us and was at about one hundred feet altitude (above sea level). It then banked left about 30 degrees and made a 90 degree left hand turn which took about 5 seconds. At that time, it was about 200 to 300 feet from our circle to the east. It flew for roughly a quarter of a mile in a southerly direction (as best we could tell, that was the exact location/path of the orbs in the picture). At that time, the helicopter banked left again, stated turning left again and started to increase its altitude. Shortly after that, the lights were switched off. The helicopter proceeded to ascend to about 1000 ft altitude and departed the area on a westerly course. It continued on a westerly course until it was out of range (visually and audio).
The helicopter was a fairly large one that could accommodate about 6 to 10 people. It appeared to be painted black or possibly camouflage type coloring, It did not have any markings or advertizing on it that we could see. If I had to pick it out of a lineup, I think it would look a lot like this without the bank of lights of course.
www.military-today.com...

The bank of lights was mounted on one side of the aircraft (I think left, but am positive anymore). The lights where aimed horizontally out from the aircraft, not down vertically as one would expect for ground illumination. Thus the aircraft had to bank, probably about 30 degrees to illuminate the ground with the lights, but that did not seem to be the major intent of the mission. There appeared to be 6 rows of about 10 lights each. The bank itself appears to be about 6 feet high by 10 feet wide (as looking at the helicopter from the side). Each light appeared to be considerable in size – 6 to 9 inches and appeared to be putting out 200 watts of white light. I do think at one time the lights were aimed at us (most likely turning the initial turn. The lights to too strong to look at directly without hurting one eyes. But during that time that the helicopter was near our circle, it appears to be almost daylight and we could see each other quite clearly.

reply to post by fah0436

Fah, that's certainly not your typical "orb" pic, although I'm sure you know you're gonna catch some heat about it.

Having said that, I want you to know that while I find you somewhat naive (and naive in my book suggests a refreshing innocence in some cases) I also have gained a little respect for you. It ain't easy being the only Greer supporter on this thread who has taken the time to explain why you are supportive.

And, I appreciate that you stated that there were some things about your outing with Greer that you found somewhat cheesy and exaggerated on his part.

I do, however, feel that Greer is basically guilty of what he's been charged with here. And I have a feeling that you will come to that conclusion yourself one day. Just a feeling, I could be wrong.

Moving on to the article linked by Kandinsky and keeping in mind Druscilla's assertion that "suggestibility" and "expectation" play a part in the subjective experience of Greer's Ufo outings, I find the following info pertinent:

Finally we get the how-tos of "coherent thought sequencing," which is analogous to what golf-instruction manuals call "visualizing success." You close your eyes and try to establish a conscious connection with a UFO pilot or commander, and then imagine the flight path that he, she, or it would take to find you.

As we perform a 20-minute test think, Greer suggests visualizing macro-scale landmarks--like the finger-shaped western edge of Lake Superior--to give the pilots direction. Afterward he asks who saw what. It's clear that this group is hair- trigger ready.

"The craft is round," Lisa says. "A ball. With many different lights around it. They communicate telepathically. If you say, 'Come in peace,' they'll come. If you think negatively, they won't come."
"Right, right," says Greer. "That's very true."
archiv.mufon-ces.org...

With those kind of "visualization" techniques many a mind would be "primed" for an "experience."

Another point from the linked article was the assertion that Greer doesn't like being associated with the term "Contactee" and is even very rude and derogatory to other contactees:

Greer fiercely rejects being called a contactee. He lumps such people in with a "fringe religious" element that is at odds with his preferred self-image of agate-eyed rationality. Still, the dividends that he promises sound familiar. Among other things, he maintains that the great meeting will bring about a millennial revolution in "human consciousness" as men and women breathlessly absorb lessons from beings whose technology, says Greer, "will seem like magic to us."
archiv.mufon-ces.org...

Hrmm...how is he different from the traditional Contactees? There is also more evidence of claims that have never materialized in the spirit of "Disclosure." He loves the term, but sure does keep a lot of alleged info pretty close to the chest:

"We can document that in the fifties," he says, "UFOs were classified at least two levels higher than the H-bomb experiment." Later, he claims that he was once dragged into "a hotel room" by members of "the Aviary," a supposed top-secret cabal of U.S. government officials who know what's really at the bottom of the UFO enigma. Greer says they grilled him for hours about "just what in the hell we're doing and why." CSETI, he barked back defiantly, is "not gonna back off, so long as I'm breathing the free air of Earth."
archiv.mufon-ces.org...

Although I could be wrong there, but I don't believe that has ever been "documented."

Lastly, Dr. Greer seems to think that TM--Transcendental Meditation--techniques are somehow related to the E.T. equation. I'm not specifically saying they are not relevant, but I do think his involvement with TM is an important part of understanding where he is coming from.

I would also note the "relaxation" aspect of TM and the relation of "relaxation" to suggestibility as in hypnosis and self-hypnosis.

It's a win-win, and he hasn't even gotten the DNA analyzed yet! The fact that he's using this tease to raise money is all the proof we need to consider it a hoax. If it was real, Greer (or anybody in actual possession of the find) could prove it with very little effort, and in doing so guarantee for himself all of the money he could ever hope to use. By treating it like a fund raiser for his own personal telethon, he's broadcasting its actual worth: about whatever Tom Arnold would bring in if he was on Jerry Lewis' Labor Day show for muscular dystrophy (an appearance that would at least bring in a few bucks for an admirable and worthwhile cause, which is certainly not what Greer's personal charity -- himself -- represents). People like Greer represent a problem, not a solution. When the greatest story on earth is cached in a request for money, it will ALWAYS represent either an exercise in fraudulence and self-promotion or an expression of religious grandeur (which is very often the same thing). You'd be doing the world and your soul a much better service if you would just take your money and give it to someone who has to sleep without shelter or a home tonight.

Glad to see RealityUncovered has this on Greer's latest scam

reply to post by The GUT


Did you say TM -- oh this awesome expose on TM and David Lynch is a must-see comparison to Greer.

free online viewing of David Wants to Fly.

reply to post by fah0436

Picture of orbs. Marco Island.

You can sit on the docks at Walker's in Goodland and see these all night long most any evening that it isn't raining. Assuming you can put up with the no-seeums. They are legendary to that fishing village and the full time inhabitants have dozens on dozens of clear, concise pictures.

reply to post by fah0436

Location, Marco Island off Florida. Here is a URL to the location on google maps where the group circle was located (circle was at center of picture): goo.gl... You can see the smaller mangrove in the picture and via Google Maps. The picture was fairly obviously taken on a western axis with the gulf in the background. The distance to the orbs appeared to be between 100 to 200 feet from the center of the circle, but they may have been closer.

Specifically, this is the Tigertail Beach area, limited access, Ranger controlled, permits required after hours (10PM I think) congregations.

Originally posted by fah0436
Picture of orbs. Marco Island.

Thank you for posting the photo.

Ok, so it's not the original digital image, blurry and out of focus (the usual CSETI-related photo attributes). Was it taken by a CSETI official? Was it your camera that was used?

I'm presuming the orange string of lights coming in from the left are the Marco Island hotels and the random white specks are the 'orbs' in question.

The easiest method to create orbs such as these is to use an aerosol spray to propel water particles in the air before snapping the shot. As CSETI are known hoaxers this is a strong possibility. Did you see any such activity? I have to admit it would be a bit tricky to pull off while you are all looking at the person holding the camera but perhaps darkness could hide such tricks. Further, if they've extracted $900(?) worth of trust out of the trainees maybe people will pretend not to notice.

Additional notes about the helicopter.

It was first observed/detected by Greer and M using remote viewing like capabilities.

Which smells strongly of Greer having arranged the fly-by, or having first-hand knowledge of the fly-by time.

Could it have been this helicopter?

As far as the cost of hiring a fly-by is concerned you are in the best position to determine the viability of that possibility. You know how many punters were on the field trip and you know how much each of you paid.

Cheers.

reply to post by fah0436



just a suggestion fah if you wanna keep some level of anonymity you might wanna try hosting that on imageshack.us i'm assuming that is you at the bottom in the published by section. edit your post and delete the orginal linky too..

reply to post by torsion
Would it even be out of the question for someone to specifically hire a heli for a certain time?

No apparent prices on your link, however there are low prices available as an example. If the price range is around $50, it's a rather useful opportunity to ensure a photo-op and deliver some positive word-of-mouth. Even $200 would be worthwhile when the immediate profit margin is up in 5 figures and adds sugar for the future..

A slow exposure (1/30?) whilst you make small-talk with the customers?

Just for fun, I had a look to see if CSETI ran a helicopter - no joy there. In the process this made me smile...a number of stunning cases involving CSETI. Saucers, aliens and black triangles are like the proverbial flies around Greer.

A note of humor, and another slight indictment against Greer:

The OP video posted in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is a fun bit of silly CGI bashing an alien with a stick. Additional note; it's a Thirdphaseofmoon video, Thirdphaseofmoon being synonymous with FAKE.

In the earlier frames of the video, you see a light come from behind a lenticular cloud formation, and then drop another light.

Those few frames of the light dropping another light can be seen in one of Greer's promotional videos for Sirius, as well as a few frames from the Hollywood movie Super 8 as well as many other rips and cuts from other videos.

Super 8 Footage can be seen at 0:54-0:58, while Thirdphaseofmoon Light orb dropping another light can be seen at 3:16-3:18


Can't paste teaser footage from his own film? Or, his own film footage for Sirius is so lame he has no choice but to hype it with clips from other films, and videos?

I'm wondering how some of these other video posters on youtube, as well as studios where a few frames from major films have been ripped into the promotional video and presented as his own would feel about being notified regarding his use of their material?

Anyone know how to contact Thirdphaseofmoon? All I can find for contact info is an AOL email address. I didn't think anyone even still used AOL?
Anyway, might be fun to pit frauds against frauds. I'm on it like God(Dru)zilla on Tokyo

It might be more fun watching frauds fight each other all over the web than japanesebugfights.com

Just a quick thought here. If, Greer could actually summon Aliens and their craft at the drop of a hat. One would think, our own Government would be his first paying customers.

Think about it...

Des

reply to post by Destinyone


ahh, but he's too good for that. He's all about holding baby aliens, having guitar parties with would-be assassins,
peace, love, rainbow orbs, and expanded healing crystal consciousness for the planet, uh-huh.

Originally posted by Destinyone
Just a quick thought here. If, Greer could actually summon Aliens and their craft at the drop of a hat. One would think, our own Government would be his first paying customers.

Think about it...

Des

I have made this very point many times

I also think if you were desperate to change the world and get people to believe in our space brother saviours you would summon them somewhere very public and not charge a fee!

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Destinyone

 

ahh, but he's too good for that. He's all about holding baby aliens, having guitar parties with would-be assassins,
peace, love, rainbow orbs, and expanded healing crystal consciousness for the planet, uh-huh.

You forgot the weightlifting, Dr Greer is soooo muscly!

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Destinyone

 

ahh, but he's too good for that. He's all about holding baby aliens, having guitar parties with would-be assassins,
peace, love, rainbow orbs, and expanded healing crystal consciousness for the planet, uh-huh.

I'll admit, I haven't donated anything to Greer. But, if he sends me a Rainbow colored Unicorn, I may consider....

Des