Fear or Love, which one are you?

Originally posted by jiggerjWhen we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

What proof would you have that it is still there? Once you look for it and you feel it, it's more likely the brain just caters to expectation and it wasn't there before.

Hate is pure poison for the mind and meant for manipulating others, for example I tell you or show you nonverbally I hate something about you so maybe you change, instead of myself having to go through all the trouble analyzing my mind and understanding whatever I perceive in the other I don't like should be turned off or not given attention to in my own mind.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerjWhen we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

What proof would you have that it is still there?

??? Do you really have to ask this? Hate causes stress, and if stress isn't released in a proper and timely manner, it can kill people.

Originally posted by brianmg5

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

If you are so fearless, jump off a cliff, skydive without a parachute, set yourself on fire, walk into highway traffic etc. etc. etc. Emotions kickstart logic. When we fear death, we logically find ways to avoid it. This whole thread is people fearing fear. That is what you should be laughing at.

I disagree with that assessment entirely. This thread is mostly about choosing to love and forgive people. However, it does have overtones of how we react when faced with circumstances which cause us to be fearful.

Your example concerning physical danger and how humans react to said danger is an unfair example in the context of this thread. Your example concerns a fear which is embedded into the evolutionary history of our race and serves an important purpose...to keep us alive. What this thread is concerned with is fears such as economic, social, well being, etc. And in the face of those fears, we can choose to embrace said fear and take the fearless action in spite of the fear. A brave man is not one who feels no fear, it's simply a man who's willing to take the right actions in spite of said fear.

Good words.

If that's indeed the case, and actual legitimate fear is unfair to the context of the thread, then we're not really talking about fear at all, but illusion and stupidity.

What I find unfair is that we're constantly dragging our fear and our bodies ability to provide a warning beacon through the proverbial mud, because our unsubstantiated fears, which are dependent on delusion and an inability to separate illusion from reality, are mistakenly thought to be derived from fear. When we step back and look at it, we see these unsubstantiated fears are brought about through ignorance and self-deceit. What is the reason they fear? Because they don't know. Because they choose not to know or to learn before acting. That's stupidity. A will to not know.

It's not fear that drives man to do evil. Fear is on our side. There's no logical reason to exclude legitimate fears from a discussion on fear. We're unjustly accusing our own bodies ability of fear as being the foundation of evil, while letting the root of the problem persist without so much as a mention.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerjWhen we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

What proof would you have that it is still there?

??? Do you really have to ask this? Hate causes stress, and if stress isn't released in a proper and timely manner, it can kill people.

Ok, you probably accepted hatred as a valid thing a long time ago, I didn't because it's not healthy.

Just a random freely translated buddhist quote (a scholar named Buddhagosa); Adherence to hate is like holding a piece of hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone, you're the one that burns. Other variations are about anger or other negative emotions.

You make up the hot coal in your mind, that coal should go in your fireplace so you can warm yourself with it while it's cold outside.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerjWhen we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

What proof would you have that it is still there?

??? Do you really have to ask this? Hate causes stress, and if stress isn't released in a proper and timely manner, it can kill people.

Ok, you probably accepted hatred as a valid thing a long time ago, I didn't because it's not healthy.

But hate IS healthy if people use it right. Certain levels of hate, mistrust, greed, jealousy are needed to keep us human. Take these away and we're shallow, mindless flower children.

You say I accepted hate. I don't have to accept it; it's part of the whole human package. On the flip side, what you're saying is that you are lying to yourself when you THINK you don't have, use, and experience hate. We ALL have hate in us. We ALL have love in us. And lust, envy, aggression and ambition, need for competition, compassion, hope...they define humanity. Take them away and you're no longer human.

Just like hate, what happens when people love too much? It's an unhealthy obsession. Everything in moderation is very very good.

Fear although can be trained to avoid is not a choice, it is an instinct.

Also wanted to point out the dictionary is wrong - hate is the opposite of love, not apathy.

Originally posted by jiggerj
But hate IS healthy if people use it right. Certain levels of hate, mistrust, greed, jealousy are needed to keep us human. Take these away and we're shallow, mindless flower children.

You say I accepted hate. I don't have to accept it; it's part of the whole human package.

It's hard for me to imagine babies feeling hate but I'm not a parent. Sure everyone can experience negative or positive emotions but to apply them is learned behaviour, passed on each generation probably since prehistoric times.

On the flip side, what you're saying is that you are lying to yourself when you THINK you don't have, use, and experience hate. We ALL have hate in us. We ALL have love in us. And lust, envy, aggression and ambition, need for competition, compassion, hope...they define humanity. Take them away and you're no longer human.

Just like hate, what happens when people love too much? It's an unhealthy obsession. Everything in moderation is very very good.

edit on 8/7/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

I don't believe I'm lying to myself. Hatred never solves anything or changes the object of hatred, at best it's used to program the brain to shutout certain objects when one's own truth is lacking, when logic and rationality fails.

For example people can say I'm ugly and if I don't believe in an inner beauty more than the outward beauty I could hate them for it because I wouldn't know how to make myself believe the latter is more important the previous and it would prevent me from viewing myself as an ugly individual. Or I could submit altogether and have my body fixed so it would please others more. I would call that shallow, not a sin or anything but people with a well developed truth is what I would call a deep personality, those who in this example would be viewed as ugly in society but are happy regardless.

However it may be I'd rather be in a Utopia where there is no hatred, I'm sure people there would think of themselves as being human even without hatred.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerjWhen we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

What proof would you have that it is still there?

??? Do you really have to ask this? Hate causes stress, and if stress isn't released in a proper and timely manner, it can kill people.

Ok, you probably accepted hatred as a valid thing a long time ago, I didn't because it's not healthy.

But hate IS healthy if people use it right. Certain levels of hate, mistrust, greed, jealousy are needed to keep us human. Take these away and we're shallow, mindless flower children.

You say I accepted hate. I don't have to accept it; it's part of the whole human package. On the flip side, what you're saying is that you are lying to yourself when you THINK you don't have, use, and experience hate. We ALL have hate in us. We ALL have love in us. And lust, envy, aggression and ambition, need for competition, compassion, hope...they define humanity. Take them away and you're no longer human.

Just like hate, what happens when people love too much? It's an unhealthy obsession. Everything in moderation is very very good.

edit on 8/7/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Yes it is all part of the 'human' package. The human conditioning promotes hate and causes all mankinds suffering. Enjoy your life as a human.

Unconditional love is the opposite to 'conditioned mind'. Hate is just a form of fear.
Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.

reply to post by Dragonfly79

It's hard for me to imagine babies feeling hate but I'm not a parent. Sure everyone can experience negative or positive emotions but to apply them is learned behaviour, passed on each generation probably since prehistoric times.

If you're talking about infants, they don't feel love either. But, if you're talking a two-year-old they can feel love toward a loving mother, or they can turn away and cry every time they see someone that constantly tries to scare them.

I don't believe I'm lying to myself. Hatred never solves anything or changes the object of hatred, at best it's used to program the brain to shutout certain objects when one's own truth is lacking, when logic and rationality fails.

For example people can say I'm ugly and if I don't believe in an inner beauty more than the outward beauty I could hate them for it because I wouldn't know how to make myself believe the latter is more important the previous and it would prevent me from viewing myself as an ugly individual. Or I could submit altogether and have my body fixed so it would please others more. I would call that shallow, not a sin or anything but people with a well developed truth is what I would call a deep personality, those who in this example would be viewed as ugly in society but are happy regardless.

However it may be I'd rather be in a Utopia where there is no hatred, I'm sure people there would think of themselves as being human even without hatred.

The scenario you offer is too mild. Are you telling me you wouldn't hate (not DECIDE to hate, but feel it as an involuntary emotion) if someone punched your mother in the face? If your boss humiliated and harassed you every day in front of the people you work with?

There is no Utopia. Even if a Utopia existed, we humans wouldn't last a week there. We're not emotionally designed for it. And, thank gawd for that! Imagine living in a world where everyone is perpetually happy-happy. YUCK!

I'm just going to answer the thread title.

I am both, and I accept that in myself.

Hopefully more love than fear, but sometimes it is the other way around....
Fear has it's place. Often times it is misplaced though.
Anger is just hurt feelings, hurt feelings is pain, and pain is what causes fear,
all fear at it's core is pain of some kind.

IMO