Lakewood (Colorado) Cake Shop Refuses Wedding Cake To Gay Couple.

Cake shop says business booming
kdvr.com...
what ever happened to chicka fil, or what ever it is called?

reply to post by Raist

He did not refuse service based on sexual orientation. He refused to make a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

Could he also refuse to make a cake for a woman he knew had had an abortion if he also didn't believe in abortion?

If gay marriage was legal - would he still be within his right to refuse to make them a cake - based on his beliefs?

It's not a private club with an exclusive membership - it's a business that's open to the public

Are some people not fully members of the public?

If there wasn't a law already in place that prevented it - should he be allowed to refuse a cake to Japanese people - if he didn't like Japanese people?

Think about it. Just trying to see how far this goes - and get a feel for what you're really saying

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


The abortion thing is not even on the same radar as the wedding cake, last I heard no one makes cakes for abortions. However if there were such a cake it would be his right to deny making such a cake.

Also if gay marriage were legal it would still be his right to refuse to make a wedding cake based on his beliefs. It is his private business after all. He said he would make them any other cake but a wedding cake.

Let's look back at the bars though. The one kicks all women out after a certain time. How is this any different from refusing a gay wedding cake? Only this bar is kicking women out based on their sex.


Apparently none of those in the links were private clubs if they once allowed someone in and then decided to ban them. Show me anywhere in the links where it says they are a private club and not one catering to the public. But since you mention private club they are a business as well and should be held to the same standards as others. You cannot segregate one thing and claim it is private when it is still a business and not allow others to separate things based on belief.

Edit to add: You better start getting pissed about those places refusing service as well. Cannot have it both ways after all. It is either right for all or wrong for all.

Raist

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
I don't see how this is any different than refusing a wedding cake to a black or multiracial couple; it's all bigotry, even if it's homophobia and not racism. Personal views are fine, but this is segregation. It's one thing to dislike a minority group, it's another to intentionally make life harder for them.

Black pastors group launches anti-Obama campaign around gay marriage

religion.blogs.cnn.com...

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

If you honestly don't see what is wrong with discrimination...then it is because you have a mindset that you agree with it.

I know what I believe is wrong with discrimination, but I don't see how it is any of my business, or yours, to dictate what other people believe.

How would you like to be forced to have a relationship with the biggest racist and biggot you can imagine? Is that anybody else's right to force you to create that relationship? If you had a business, and somebody came in your business that totally disgusted you with their very being, don't you have a right to refuse them service?

Sure, it is simple to say discrimination is wrong, but that doesn't mean I want to force everyone to be ok with everything and live together in some fantasy land.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by getreadyalready

What if I just don't like assholes? And some asshole comes into my store, being a jerk, and I refuse to serve him. Isn't that my right?

I do not see the comparison between a behavior and someone's sexual orientation.

People have a choice on how they behave.

A lot of people would say people have a choice on their sexual orientation, but honestly I don't care either way. What if I just don't like the look of them? What if it has nothing to do with sexual orientation, but I don't like the way they dress, or their posture, or their last name? What if I refuse to serve all Smiths, because it screws up my computer system. Isn't that my right?

reply to post by Raist

The abortion thing is not even on the same radar as the wedding cake, last I heard no one makes cakes for abortions. However if there were such a cake it would be his right to deny making such a cake.

Pay attention please and don't dodge the question - it's not about making cakes for abortions - it's about denying a service or product to someone that has done something the business owner doesn't agree with

So, you think a business owner - that is running a business that's open to the public - has the right to pick and choose who he'll serve?

I notice you didn't even bother with my question about the Japanese - could you answer that one too - please?

Let's look back at the bars though. The one kicks all women out after a certain time. How is this any different from refusing a gay wedding cake? Only this bar is kicking women out based on their sex.

You asked the wrong person - it is discrimination if it's not a private club - and wrong as far as I'm concerned

Apparently none of those in the links were private clubs if they once allowed someone in and then decided to ban them. Show me anywhere in the links where it says they are a private club and not one catering to the public. But since you mention private club they are a business as well and should be held to the same standards as others. You cannot segregate one thing and claim it is private when it is still a business and not allow others to separate things based on belief.

As I said - you're using the wrong argument - it's obviously the same thing. I never said any of the above situations were private clubs - I'm not allowing for or segregating anything - so don't suppose, insinuate or imply what you don't actually know

Edit to add: You better start getting pissed about those places refusing service as well. Cannot have it both ways after all. It is either right for all or wrong for all.

I see. I think I see how you approach a problem - and an argument

It is either right or wrong for everybody - all of the time. We are in agreement

Now - could you please answer my questions

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by getreadyalready

What if homosexuals refuse to shop at Chick-Fil-A, because the CEO is overly religious, isn't that discrimination? Shouldn't we FORCE them to spend money there?

It is not because he is religious.

It is because he has donated at least 3 million dollars to officially designated anti-gay hate groups - - - that work to deny Equality to a minority group.

NOM (National Organization for Marriage) was formed specifically for one purpose. To stop gay marriage. That is their single purpose.

Therefore - - anyone eating at Chidk-fil-A - - - - is contributing to these anti-gay hate groups and discrimination.

But his religion is the reason behind his views. What if he donated all that money to the Republican party? Still boycott? What if he donated it to a church, and the church opposed the gay marriage?

His personal views, or personal finances do not impact the quality of a chicken sandwich, and when people are making their buying decisions, shouldn't they make them on the basis of their own economy and value? If CFA has the best sandwich for the best price, then that is how I choose a sandwich, not based on the religion or politics of their CEO, but that's just me.

Originally posted by hp1229
What about the other businesses that do not charge cover for women such as bars and clubs?

Isn't that discrimination?

I think entertainment falls into a different category. The product you are selling is basically entertainment.

Everyone knows to get men into a straight bar - - you need women.

So I would say it falls under promotion - - rather then discrimination.

reply to post by nixie_nox

But on my wedding day, I wanted the best cake I could get, and there is only one place around me, the cake is divine.

If I wasn't allowed in for being Italian (which wasn't all that long ago) or whatever reason, I would be devastated. It would upset the whole process for me.

And if they hated you, because you were Italian, but the were forced to make your cake anyway, do you think it would still be divine? Would you still want it, knowing they made it because they were forced to do so? Would the process be any better, and the result be any less devastating? Would you still want to support their business?

If someone hates me, I'm going to hate them back, not ask the authorities to come force them to like me.

Suppose I'm a Chevy mechanic, and I HATE Fords. Should I be forced to work on Fords just because I'm the best mechanic in town? What if the authorities do tell me it is work on this Ford or go out of business, and I say screw them and shut down the business. Now nobody gets their car fixed, the best mechanic in town is now a landscaper. Is that the solution we're going for?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
I don't see how this is any different than refusing a wedding cake to a black or multiracial couple; it's all bigotry, even if it's homophobia and not racism. Personal views are fine, but this is segregation. It's one thing to dislike a minority group, it's another to intentionally make life harder for them.

Black pastors group launches anti-Obama campaign around gay marriage

religion.blogs.cnn.com...

please explain how this is relevant

Originally posted by getreadyalready

But his religion is the reason behind his views. What if he donated all that money to the Republican party? Still boycott? What if he donated it to a church, and the church opposed the gay marriage?

FACT - - if you eat at Chick-fil-A - - - YOU are financially supporting anti-gay hate groups.

The Republican party has multiple interests. Churches have multiple interests.

The anti-gay hate groups have ONE.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


And that is just it. If next year, the law was passed saying that you can't discriminated against sexual orientation, what difference would it make in the 12 months? It wasn't discrimination 12 months ago?

But under the guise of bakery freedoms, he is allowed to do what he wants. Which is supporting discrimination.

Discriination was just that till the Civil Rights Act was passed, but until you have to actually legislate it, it is freedom.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Yea its Colorado.

In a more liberal area, that bakery would be dead in a week.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by getreadyalready

But his religion is the reason behind his views. What if he donated all that money to the Republican party? Still boycott? What if he donated it to a church, and the church opposed the gay marriage?

FACT - - if you eat at Chick-fil-A - - - YOU are financially supporting anti-gay hate groups.

The Republican party has multiple interests. Churches have multiple interests.

The anti-gay hate groups have ONE.

I think I let myself get off on a tangent. I have no problem with boycotting CFA. In fact, that is exactly what I would suggest one to do if they want to make an impact. Personally, I would boycott a whole bunch of places long before CFA, but that is just my opinion, others surely feel differently.

I have no problem with people organizing a boycott of CFA. I think it will fail miserably, because from what I have seen the press coverage is only helping CFA, but I still support you in boycotting them if you disagree with what they stand for.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Suppose I'm a Chevy mechanic, and I HATE Fords. Should I be forced to work on Fords just because I'm the best mechanic in town? What if the authorities do tell me it is work on this Ford or go out of business, and I say screw them and shut down the business. Now nobody gets their car fixed, the best mechanic in town is now a landscaper. Is that the solution we're going for?

Suppose you go to your favorite restaurant - and the owner decides he hates Ron Paul supporters - and decides you're not welcome in his restaurant any more?

I'm sure you'll say it's his right to do so - but is this the kind of country we want to live in?

Where would it stop?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Cake shop says business booming
kdvr.com...
what ever happened to chicka fil, or what ever it is called?

What did you expect them to say?

Yes - they'll get a short surge of religious supporters. It will die off - - - but the discrimination boycott will continue.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Suppose I'm a Chevy mechanic, and I HATE Fords. Should I be forced to work on Fords just because I'm the best mechanic in town? What if the authorities do tell me it is work on this Ford or go out of business, and I say screw them and shut down the business. Now nobody gets their car fixed, the best mechanic in town is now a landscaper. Is that the solution we're going for?

Suppose you go to your favorite restaurant - and the owner decides he hates Ron Paul supporters - and decides you're not welcome in his restaurant any more?

I'm sure you'll say it's his right to do so - but is this the kind of country we want to live in?

Where would it stop?

Yes, that is exactly the kind of country I want to live in, and I would appreciate the honesty of that guy throwing me out instead of just spitting in my food in the kitchen and giggling to himself!

I would much rather have my racism and bigotry out in the open than behind closed doors. I don't want to go somewhere I am not wanted, and I don't want to be forced to do something I don't want to do.

Segregation didn't work. Nowadays they market specifically to black markets, white markets, age groups, sexes, geographical areas, education levels, etc. The marketplace determines the success or failure of a business, and if there is enough consumers to support and all white or all black or all jewish or all male or all female business, and that business finds that niche, then good for them.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
In fact, that is exactly what I would suggest one to do if they want to make an impact. Personally, I would boycott a whole bunch of places long before CFA,

I do. AND - - make sure I support pro-LGBT businesses.

I try to keep up by reading LGBT news.

It is the last major minority discrimination. Time for it to go bye bye.

reply to post by nixie_nox


actually - the Denver-Metro area is fairly liberal - as compared to the rest of Colorado. Boulder Colorado of course being as liberal as it gets - anywhere

I think just because he says business is booming doesn't mean that's actually true

What's he going to say - really? :-)

Apparently (from the article) he refused to make a Halloween cake for someone as well

:-)