Why is it that people think we cannot CRITICIZE ISRAEL? Israel is NOT A RELIGION, It's a Nation..wi

Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by consigliere

 

I hear ya on that one. It should not be the case. Like i said earlier in the thread, I think alot of people, on both sides of the argument, blur the lines.
Thanks for the dialogue

Yes - too much misunderstanding of Hebrew, Israel, Judah, and Jew. Too much emotion, too little objectivity. Too little knowledge of history, secular or Biblical. Too much money and power ride on these arguments...

reply to post by consigliere


Sure thing!
Take care

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I dont get it. Is their some Bizzaro America where you cant do this? I see people all the time critize Isreal. I see people all the time argue back. I see people all the time not giving an ass either way.

Where do you all live where you cant criticize Israel?

edit on 31-7-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Quoting myself because no one has given me an explanation on who would stop me if i criticized Israel. Hoping for an answer.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I dont get it. Is their some Bizzaro America where you cant do this? I see people all the time critize Isreal. I see people all the time argue back. I see people all the time not giving an ass either way.

Where do you all live where you cant criticize Israel?

edit on 31-7-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Quoting myself because no one has given me an explanation on who would stop me if i criticized Israel. Hoping for an answer.

If you get too prominent and/or outspoken, you may find yourself jobless, or even suicided by the Mossad. Do you know what happened to Arthur Koestler and his wife after The Thirteenth Tribe was published?

reply to post by glasshouse

I'm just trying to illustrate the point that there is unnecessary violence coming from both sides. Do you disagree?

Of course the violence is unnecessary. And the story you posted is sad but Israel does this far more to the Palestinians than it's done to the Israeli's.

You say the suicide bombers are cowards that's your opinion.

John 15:13

“There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends.”

A true coward is how Israel plants bombs that kills innocents. That is the mark of a coward.

Most of the suicide bombers attack the settlements which are illegal so they have every right to take these people out anyway they can. The settlers attack the mosques and Muslims every chance they get they even attack Muslim and Christian children while they are on their way to school and the IDF does nothing to stop them. But if the Muslims try to fight back the settlers being the cowards they are hide behind the IDF.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Early in 1976 Koestler was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

in 1980, he was diagnosed also with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia.

Koestler had stated more than once that he was not afraid of being dead but was afraid of the process of dying.[50] He did not wish to suffer the indignity of losing control over his body or mind. His suicide was not unexpected among close friends. Shortly before his suicide, his doctor had discovered a swelling in the groin which indicated a metastasis of the cancer. He and his wife killed themselves on 1 March 1983[51][52][53] with an overdose of barbiturates (Tuinal), taken with alcohol.[54] Their bodies were discovered on the morning of 3 March, by which time they had been dead for thirty-six hours.
Koestler's suicide note:[55]

To whom it may concern. The purpose of this note is to make it unmistakably clear that I intend to commit suicide by taking an overdose of drugs without the knowledge or aid of any other person. The drugs have been legally obtained and hoarded over a considerable period. Trying to commit suicide is a gamble the outcome of which will be known to the gambler only if the attempt fails, but not if it succeeds. Should this attempt fail and I survive it in a physically or mentally impaired state, in which I can no longer control what is done to me, or communicate my wishes, I hereby request that I be allowed to die in my own home and not be resuscitated or kept alive by artificial means. I further request that my wife, or a physician, or any friend present, should invoke habeas corpus against any attempt to remove me forcibly from my house to hospital. My reasons for deciding to put an end to my life are simple and compelling: Parkinson's Disease and the slow-killing variety of leukaemia (CCI). I kept the latter a secret even from intimate friends to save them distress. After a more or less steady physical decline over the last years, the process has now reached an acute state with added complications which make it advisable to seek self-deliverance now, before I become incapable of making the necessary arrangements. I wish my friends to know that I am leaving their company in a peaceful frame of mind, with some timid hopes for a de-personalised after-life beyond due confines of space, time and matter and beyond the limits of our comprehension. This 'oceanic feeling' has often sustained me at difficult moments, and does so now, while I am writing this. What makes it nevertheless hard to take this final step is the reflection of the pain it is bound to inflict on my surviving friends, above all my wife Cynthia. It is to her that I owe the relative peace and happiness that I enjoyed in the last period of my life – and never before. The above note was dated June 1982. Below it appeared the following: Since the above was written in June 1982, my wife decided that after thirty-four years of working together she could not face life after my death. Further down the page appeared Cynthia's own farewell note: I fear both death and the act of dying that lies ahead of us. I should have liked to finish my account of working for Arthur – a story which began when our paths happened to cross in 1949. However, I cannot live without Arthur, despite certain inner resources. Double suicide has never appealed to me, but now Arthur's incurable diseases have reached a stage where there is nothing else to do.

en.wikipedia.org...

Is this what you're referring to?

reply to post by glasshouse


The Arabs at the time joined forces with the Allies to get rid of the Ottoman Empire (The Arabs were approached by the British)... then they got back stabbed by the allies with the secretive Sykes-Picot agreement.

So once the Arabs and Allies pushed out the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs got rewarded by being f****ed by another tyrannical empire similar to the Ottomans. You think that being someone's Ally meant something...

It wasn't till 1948 when countries like Lebanon were able to get rid of the illegitimate French occupation.

reply to post by glasshouse

Is this what you're referring to?

I am confused? Israel gave him cancer because he talked crap about it?

reply to post by buster2010


I thought the settlements are on land that Israel won during the Six Day War.
Does that make them illegal?
I don't believe any targeted attack on civilians by any people, settlers or Palestinians, in any venue should be viewed as heroic.

Israeli Kids Writing Hate Messages On Bombs

Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Early in 1976 Koestler was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

in 1980, he was diagnosed also with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia.

Koestler had stated more than once that he was not afraid of being dead but was afraid of the process of dying.[50] He did not wish to suffer the indignity of losing control over his body or mind. His suicide was not unexpected among close friends. Shortly before his suicide, his doctor had discovered a swelling in the groin which indicated a metastasis of the cancer. He and his wife killed themselves on 1 March 1983[51][52][53] with an overdose of barbiturates (Tuinal), taken with alcohol.[54] Their bodies were discovered on the morning of 3 March, by which time they had been dead for thirty-six hours.
Koestler's suicide note:[55]

To whom it may concern. The purpose of this note is to make it unmistakably clear that I intend to commit suicide by taking an overdose of drugs without the knowledge or aid of any other person. The drugs have been legally obtained and hoarded over a considerable period. Trying to commit suicide is a gamble the outcome of which will be known to the gambler only if the attempt fails, but not if it succeeds. Should this attempt fail and I survive it in a physically or mentally impaired state, in which I can no longer control what is done to me, or communicate my wishes, I hereby request that I be allowed to die in my own home and not be resuscitated or kept alive by artificial means. I further request that my wife, or a physician, or any friend present, should invoke habeas corpus against any attempt to remove me forcibly from my house to hospital. My reasons for deciding to put an end to my life are simple and compelling: Parkinson's Disease and the slow-killing variety of leukaemia (CCI). I kept the latter a secret even from intimate friends to save them distress. After a more or less steady physical decline over the last years, the process has now reached an acute state with added complications which make it advisable to seek self-deliverance now, before I become incapable of making the necessary arrangements. I wish my friends to know that I am leaving their company in a peaceful frame of mind, with some timid hopes for a de-personalised after-life beyond due confines of space, time and matter and beyond the limits of our comprehension. This 'oceanic feeling' has often sustained me at difficult moments, and does so now, while I am writing this. What makes it nevertheless hard to take this final step is the reflection of the pain it is bound to inflict on my surviving friends, above all my wife Cynthia. It is to her that I owe the relative peace and happiness that I enjoyed in the last period of my life – and never before. The above note was dated June 1982. Below it appeared the following: Since the above was written in June 1982, my wife decided that after thirty-four years of working together she could not face life after my death. Further down the page appeared Cynthia's own farewell note: I fear both death and the act of dying that lies ahead of us. I should have liked to finish my account of working for Arthur – a story which began when our paths happened to cross in 1949. However, I cannot live without Arthur, despite certain inner resources. Double suicide has never appealed to me, but now Arthur's incurable diseases have reached a stage where there is nothing else to do.

en.wikipedia.org...

Is this what you're referring to?

edit on 07/27/12 by glasshouse because: (no reason given)

I just find it interesting that he turned up dead at the height of the controversy over his last book. I don't buy coincidences...well sometimes, but not often. Even if you are correct on this one, we have thousands more to go...

reply to post by xpernet

Sounds pretty par for the course. I think the Arabs were pissed because they were the ones getting back stabbed ,on this occasion, instead of the ones doing the stabbing

OP, did you know that there's plenty of room in the content area - you didn't have to put half of the post in the title. Just saying.

As for Israel, we should remember that in many ways it is not it's own country. Technically it may be but without the efforts of the United States, there would be no Israel as we know it today. We know how the United States lords over a sort of unofficial empire - there are a lot of missing stars on our flag, so to speak. So to answer the question, the U.S. protects it because it considers Israel an extended piece of land.

The supposed kowtowing that many are speaking of can more than likely be understood as respect for tradition - they bow, pray, follow the customs while in their company as a sign of respect. The same is done in many other countries, it creates less of a separation between cultures and allows for closer negotiating. Diplomacy 101.

I will say, however, that complaints of antisemitism are a bit superfluous - such as situations where a single individual is attacked for the quality of their character and they play the bigotry card. I don't doubt that there are people out there that don't know the difference between Israel and Judaism but are there enough of them to justify this topic? That remains to be seen.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

I just find it interesting that he turned up dead at the height of the controversy over his last book. I don't buy coincidences...well sometimes, but not often. Even if you are correct on this one, we have thousands more to go...

You do realize everyone dies at some point? Even the most outspoken succumb to deaths sweet embrace. I mean, I am sure you can point to a lot of deaths, but is there any proof that simply "being against Israel" would get one killed?

I mean, Iran is still there.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

I'm not claiming to be correct, just making note that it was well documented and that his suicide occurred 7 years after publication of the book.

Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by buster2010

 

I thought the settlements are on land that Israel won during the Six Day War.
Does that make them illegal?
I don't believe any targeted attack on civilians by any people, settlers or Palestinians, in any venue should be viewed as heroic.

You really need to check up on your history. The Israeli's broke that agreement right after it was signed. And have kept expanding their borders. The UN has said many times that these settlements are illegal.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 446

United Nations Security Council resolution 446, adopted on 22 March 1979, concerned the issue of Israeli settlements in the "Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem".[1] This refers to the Palestinian territories of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip as well as the Syrian Golan Heights. In the Resolution, the Security Council determined: "that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East"

reply to post by xpernet

I find that no less unsettling than this. Both, in my estimation are wrong

Children of Hamas:
youtu.be...

just let them all fight for it among themselves, why should other countries soldiers have to get involved. if they all wipe eachother out in the process,oh well.

reply to post by buster2010

Thanks for the reply.
I was under the impression that Israel has complied with this resolution.

Israel left the Gaza Strip in September 2005, and removed all of the settlements and military forces that were in it. Parts of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights remain under control of Israel as of July 2006. Israel remains in control of Gaza's airspace and territorial waters. It has not controlled the Rafah crossing into Egypt since the unilateral disengagement plan of 2005 took effect.

en.wikipedia.org...

Did I miss something?

Originally posted by charles1952
And, leaving aside any religious issues, I support them as a relatively democratic, tolerant, and free ally in an area where those are hard to find. (And we're losing those we had.)

Please tell me you are kidding.

Why do you think US and Israel boycott every conference about racism??

www.huffingtonpost.com...