Why Haven't You Enlisted?

I find anyone who "claims" that there are MASSIVE PROBLEMS in our goverment, all while showing what they call "proof", and then sit back are stupid.The only way to change a system is from the inside.Stop moaning and get a job in the system for christ sake.The only way to fix these problems is to be pro active in the situation and join.The Goverment can NOT strip your libertys if YOU are part of that goverment, as you will be the ones in charge....not some spook.Stop saying what the president does is wrong, Or Kerry sucks, GO AND FIX IT YOURSELF! Personaly, I will be joining the army soon.I belive the only way to fix this country and its problems is to join.For some it may not be the millitary.It could be anything from Police,FBI,Homeland Security,or better yet something at the community level.Right now there are a large number of unemployed people here in the US.Guess what, THERE ARE JOBS, in the goverment at community and national level.Stop sitting back yelling at the TV, monitor, or other people saying that its all messed up. GO AND DO SOMETHING! I know I am.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
You're just pissed off that you had to get involved in a war and go through all that crap. You want everyone else to feel the suffering you went through as a result of Vietnam. Don't put your personal problems on us.

I am not bitter about my service. I consider it to have been the pinnacle of my life and would not have missed it for the world. I paid a heavy price for my service, but as someone stated, it was paying the country back for the freedom I have enjoyed.

I did not try to subvert the war upon my return, nor did I throw my medals away nor did I march in protest to the war.

There was no reason to do so, unless you were a communist and a traitor to your nation.

[edit on 04/10/11 by GradyPhilpott]

Oh, I almost forgot one of the best reasons not to enlist.

The military makes some sick freaks. I had always noticed a very deliberate indoctination that I shouldn't respect anyone but Marines. The message was pretty clear- look forward to slaughtering people who can't possibly take you on, look forward to buying 16 year old thai girls like meat, look forward to beating the crap out of any civilian who crosses you- you are the one and only class of true men.

As I said before- you have to love destruction or have a remarkably strong character to really be fit for military service. Most normal people simply dont belong in the military unless their very survival is at stake. There is no such war going on, and that's all the reason that people need to not volunteer and to oppose a draft.

Who the hell are you, Grady, or anyone for that matter, to pick out people you dont even know and sentence them to be indoctinated to violence and sent off to war when it isn't absolutely vital?

There are an awful lot of sick freaks (many of them are already in the marines) who will fight just because they like it. That's their problem- I'd never ask them to, but if evil men in power want to use evil men in the military to run off and fight a war everytime it is slightly advantageous then I can't stop them. Let those people replay the banana wars all they like. Just leave us normal people out of it.
That's a whole other animal from sending a bunch of 18 year old kids to be killers because the richest and most influential nation on this planet couldn't coax its own allies into cooperating and bringing a peaceful sollution to a problem so small that a single airstrike in 1981 kept it in check for 10 years until desert storm!

You can call me spineless all you want Grady. I'm not the one screaming at the top of my lungs to send kids off to fight so that I can feel good about my country and the next generation.
I'm not the one who fell in line and followed orders for a war that most of this country agrees never should have been fought.
I CHOSE to be a Marine so that I could fight along side my friends, and I held on, even though almost 5% of new marines try to go UA for 180 these days.
You want to talk about spines, we can do that. When my union health and welfare card comes in I'll go get the specifics on mine for you. As for yours- you've pretty much demonstrated what it's made of.

It takes a certain type of person to join and succeed in the military.

One must be willing to take and carry-out orders without question, even if that means doing something which is against one's personal morals.
One must be WILLING to knowingly turn over one's rights as a sovereign individual, and become an "expendable" asset belonging to the government, for the rest of one's life.
One must be willing to trust their "masters" to be honest, uncorrupt, and moral decision-makers, who act solely for the betterment of the country.
One must be willing to believe that there is a valid justification for killing another human for something other than self-defense.
One must be willing to believe that their country is better than anyone else's because one was born there. This is generally known as "Patriotism" and was the emotion effectively manipulated by Hitler when he was coming to power in Germany.

The other side of the coin, and a smaller number of people, cannot or will not, accept these requirements. They won't hesitate to stand up for what they believe is right and good, but not just because someone told them it was. They rely upon their conscience, when picking their fights, and not on their commanding officer's. They consider what the cost (human and otherwise) will be, of an action, before they proceed with it, and if they cannot reconcile the means with the end, they will not see it thru. These people will not turn over their right to make their own decisions, and would make for an ineffective military force.

I have a huge amount of respect for the men and women who have fought and died, or been injured, while fighting for their country and for what they were led to believe was right.
I wish that the dishonest leaders who contrived and instigated the wars and "police actions" our country has been involved in over the last 100 years could be stripped of the gloss that history books have tried to cover them in, and be shown for the elitist, power-hungry, traitors that they were.
That may sound harsh to many of you, but it is what it is, and no amount of denial can change that.

Our country was designed without a standing army, because it was England's military forces that had been used to control and oppress her population. IMO, our military should consist of the National Guard and possibly the Navy, and it should only serve as a defense against other countries trying to invade the US homeland. It should not be used as a demonstration of our power or supremacy (as it has been being used), or as an offensive weapon against countries we are at odds with.

If I could enlist in the National Guard, with the expressed guarantee that I would only be called to serve in direct defense of the US against an immediately invading army; AND if, once my time had been served, I was restored to my pre-military, sovereign citizen status (no longer owned by the government); AND if the US ever gets a leader that has the integrity, and forthrightness the position of "Commander in Chief" demands: I may consider signing up.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The message was pretty clear- look forward to slaughtering people who can't possibly take you on, look forward to buying 16 year old thai girls like meat, look forward to beating the crap out of any civilian who crosses you- you are the one and only class of true men.

Thai girls? What war involving Thailand are you referring to?

Soldiers = Support them

Politicians = DON'T

www.abovetopsecret.com... - A discussion I started on supporting troops.

Once i did want to be a soldier and go and fight wars for justice and peace, you know noble causes...

Then with the wat on terror, i realised that i couldn't go fight a war that was a sham, i couldnt fight a war based on lies and half truths, i couldnt endorse killing, let alone, kill for reasons illegitimate...

Thats why, i had to sacrifice a dream i had since i was knee high to a bull-ant, because i realised the dream was a sham and there was no way i could realise this dream.

i'll be 30 next month.

why didn't i enlist during relative peace-time? i almost did. i went to the Army recruiter's office, took tests, signed papers, showed up for my physical the next day and they didn't have me on the "list." it gave me that extra day to think about the possibility of death and i chickened-out.

i regret it sometimes, especially because i supposedly scored high enough on the tests i took, to have any job i wanted in the Army, except "officer" which required more schooling than i had.

if i had it to do over, i probably would have enlisted, especially knowing now that i would have served my time before 9-11. not that i have a problem with either battle being fought since then, but the fact that there is a much higher probability of dying today, than 8-9 years ago.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I did not try to subvert the war upon my return, nor did I throw my medals away nor did I march in protest to the war.

There was no reason to do so, unless you were a communist and a traitor to your nation.

Rriigghht, because only traitorous commie scum could care about the people they worked with and grew to care about like family. And of course we all know that anyone who desires peace is just nuts. Imean no one wants peace-'cause thats just wrong.
I mean,come on, anyone who would actaully experianced the pleasures war, you know like having your friends and fellow countrymen get injured go mad nad die, would just have to be nuts to want to stop others from experiencing those things.
Grady, people like you make me ashamed to call myself a human being. I don't mind calling myself an american since we've put out worse, but not by much. War isn't some noble and glorious crusade against evil. It never has been and never will be. It's just us vs. them, with us preferably killing off them. And I fail to see why soilders should automatically be afforded any sort of respect, as a sodiers job is to kill people. Last time I checked murder was illegal and a sin. People only join the military for one of three reasons, money, tradition, and to kill people. I joined the military. I don't hate those who do, or have anything against them in general. I'm not really a pacifist. I don't hate the military.

First you ask everyone why they haven't joined, well here's why. Welcome to the USA the land of the free...
That means we don't have to join some right-wing-fascist-party-to-steal-oil-from-the-middle-east you poofy wanker.
...and the brave.
That means we have the morals to stand up and say, no, this is wrong and we will not do it, because the hardest thing to do is not turn your head away from evil being done. To say,I want peace. To say, this guy whom I fight side by side with did a bad thing and should be punished, is a for harder thing to do , than to sit back and say"this guys pointing out all the bad things we did, why he's a traitor cause we kept our mouths shut and he didn't"
This is why I can respect John Kerry and not you.
Don't bother replying, I'm ignoring you.

Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?

It may make a nice slogan, but is liberty really the goal in the War on Freedom?
Smart bombing 10 times as many people that died on 9/11 is a rather twisted version of liberty. Or do you just mean your liberty?
Ignore the reasons behind those that feel they need to liberate themselves from US domination at your own peril. How many 9/11's has the US inflicted on other countries over the last 50 years? You got off lightly, you lost two buildings and 3000 people. Others weren't so lucky.
BTW IMO bin Laden and his hairy men can burn in hell.


[edit on 11-10-2004 by Zero Point]

You ask an important question Grady, one which I as much, or more than any other on this board must awnser.I understand why those who beleve that Bush planned 9/11, or that the war in Iraq is about oil, have not yet enlisted, but what about the people like me? Those of sound mind and body, who support the war in Iraq, who support the bush administration? Why haven't I enlisted? Am I a hypocrite, a keyboard commando, content to scream "bring it on" at my TV from the comfort of my home? Am I a coward who, lacking the courage of his convictions, feels more comfortable voting for those who send others to die while I live a life of comfort and plenty? Do my religous beliefs prevent me from taking up arms in defense of my nation?
The awnser is no on all accounts. Every morning I wake up and turn on CNN, and as I begin my morning preparations for work the news of death and destruction filters torwards my brain overlayed by the sounds of running water. Every morning I wake up and wonder, should I fly back to florida, sign my name, and commit my life to the defense of this country which I so dearly love? I would, if it were not for one thing, my wife. I love my wife with all my heart as she loves me. Though I feel lessened by the decision every day I can not commit my life to the military any more than a man can spend his brothers money. I can not commit what is not mine, grady.
I have pledged my life, my heart, and my very soul to this beautiful woman who is crazy enough to love a beast like me. Were I to go to war, who would pay the bills in our home? Were I to go to war who would protect and support the woman I have pledged myself to? Our bills can not be paid on a soldiers salary, and should I die in defense of this nation, though a more honorable death I can not imagine, who would support my wife in the years and decades to come? Every day I wrestle with this conflict of interest, and every day I pray to God for the wisdom to know which course of action is the correct one.
I try my best to balance my duty to my wife with my duty to my country, but as this conflict grows worse, as the death toll mounts, I wonder if I have weighed unwisely. Is the sacred vow I took upon my wedding day of greater weight than the vow I made in my heart to the land of my birth? I truly do not know.
I have come to a compromise which though imperfect is the best I can do. Though the war in Iraq is a brutal and necessary one, I will not enlist so long as it is confined to its current size. Though the men and women who serve there are fighting for thier lives, they have back of them the greatest military might our world has ever known. Though many say our forces are streched thin, and they are, that which they are called upon to do is within thier capabilities. Should this conflict expand though, should the war extend to yet another front, I will no longer be able to justify my nonparticipation. As it is, and it shames me to say this, the war will be won with or without me. I can not say the same for my wife.
Some may see me as a hypocrite, that is thier choice. Some may see me as a coward, that is thier right. I, in truth, sometimes wonder if my wife is no more than a justification for my cowardice. If so I will be judged in due time. For now though I do not enlist because she needs me more than my country, should that change, so will my decision.

Edited for spelling.

[edit on 11-10-2004 by mwm1331]

I cannot, They wouldnt have me. I have a felony or two.

[edit on 11-10-2004 by SpittinCobra]

Why haven't you enlisted?

Tried right after high school, to pay for college, but had an unknown medical condition that excluded me from serving. I scored amazingly on the ASVAB (even though I didn't care about it at the time I took the test). I was going to go into the Coast Guard (like my father previously) and attend the Academy (even had letters from two Senators to go), but the rather minor condition barred me from military service. Really sucked, because with my dad's connections, and an ok head on my shoulders, I could have done very well there.... Specifically, the condition precludes me from running very far (though I'm a hell of a sprinter), and it is on the list of no-nos.... I failed to see how much I'd be running distances on a ship, but oh well....

To much death already Grady, and its not about win lose or draw. This is a holy war man. Whether you all fear or welcome the end of the world its coming. There's no stoping it. You'll die now or you'll die later but our time is done. Its time to let the next species take over. We had a good run could of done things alot better could have done things alot worse, but as long as people value money over the lives of the innocent nothings gonna change. In 20 years, if were around still, will look back at this war just as we look back at Vietnam. Hey sometimes the economy needs a war right? Why are we so special as to think that our little lives matter to those who run the game? Dont forget during Vietnam Lackheed Martin made a bundle off the blood of the lower and middle class. I for one welcome the end. Were all rats in a cage anyway. I dont care anymore I really dont. Why are we so veign as to think every country wants Democracy? Have you any idea the amount of damage we have done with all of this? Think of how many years we've been set back. In a war of attrition its not nessesarily the greator power that wins the day. its the nation that would rather die than be subject to someone else's freedom. I.E. Vietnam (most of their history), Afganastan (late 1970's -early 80's with the USSR, and yeah most of their history). Its hard for us Westerners to understand. We have a understanding of honor but how many of us are willing to die for it? Would you lay your life down in the name of Christ? You can not beat an enemy who is willing to die for his cause and thats just something we dont understand. Perhaps when the end time comes we might have a better understanding on the subject. But just imagine for a second our enemy. Taught from birth that death for Allah is gloryous against "tyrants". Inmagine an enemy so steadfast in his beliefs that he/ she would be willing to strap 20 pounds of C4 to themsleves and walk to their own deaths. Many people claim to be stong in faith but who has the stones to prove it? Iraq is a drop in the barral. I can respect the fact that there were no WMD's because we overthrew a murderous tyrant, who willfully tortured his subjects. But hey guess what we do too. Hypocrisy. Im ready to get off now this rides making me sick.



9:58 and drunk b/c i want to be. Sorry for the misspellings and grammer. I dont really care for either. Emotion thats the language of poets. Thats what i understand.

Ah yes mwm1331, I had a feeling your support for this war would be overshadowed by a reluctance to participate in it. What of the wives of men fighting now? Since when was having a wife or children an excuse for not serving your country? How can your bills not be paid for on a soldiers salary? Or do you just enjoy the good things in life while military families make do with what they have and still manage to serve their country? These families also have children, perhaps several each. It's called sacrifice.

It appears that you certainly are one of those who advocates others risking their lives so you can enjoy the good life. And all along I suspected that may be so. I appreciate your honesty, yet it really doesn't do much for your cause.

"I cannot serve my country because I have a wife". Doesn't really sit to well, does it?

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Today, we all know of New York. We saw the towers burn and collapse and about the only response we can get is, "Do you think they will reinstitute the draft?
Why haven't you enlisted in the cause of liberty?
[edit on 04/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady - you DON'T know New York. On the contrary, I doubt you've
ever stepped foot on Manhattan Isle.

Listen kids - if you respect the Twin Towers don't enlist.
New Yorkers don't want to see young people getting their arms and legs
blown off so George Bush can secure Iraq's oil. Saddam was a bad guy, sure, but he wasn't responsible for the attack on downtown Manhattan.
(Known as the "financial district" to locals).

The Iraq Invasion *shamed* the World Trade Center.

I'm a lifelong New Yorker. I also have 3 ex-military people in the family
and don't believe Grady is a real veteran. If he has any affiliation with the military it's in the recruiting department.

Now Grady - you need to rethink mentioning NYC in your posts.

Those of us who knew the towers well don't take kindly to outsiders using
them as "bait" to further political agendas.

You opened up a huge can of worms, my subway-fearing friend.























[edit on 11-10-2004 by bushblows]

As I said in my post cargo you have the right to believe what you will, it makes no difference to me whether your opinion of myself is favorable or not. In the end all men must judge themselves, I am willng to examine my motives and decisions, and judge myself by the same standards I judge, others are you?

Ohh yea for all of you who will flame me calling me un- American ive been serving as an Infantry man for almost 4 years, and was actualy going to be an officer tilll all of this happened. Hey dont believe me if you want. And for all you currently thinking about joining if you have any questions on the army let me know I happy to answer them. The only advice i can offer is dont join if your a female, please. AND BELIVE ME I THINK WOMEN CAN HANDLE ANY JOB A MAN CAN DO in most cases better. But untill men can be trusted around women it just dosent work. Maybe im biased because my now ex-girlfriend was raped 1 and a half months ago in training. She is/ was my life my everything and because of some animale the only thing good I have ever had in my life dosent want to be touched or talked to by any man ever again. I dont care any more. Im counting down the days till we all die.





Now drunk 52 consecutive days- Just kill us already. PLEASE

As I said in my post cargo you have the right to believe what you will, it makes no difference to me whether your opinion of myself is favorable or not. In the end all men must judge themselves, I am willng to examine my motives and decisions, and judge myself by the same standards I judge, others are you?

My opinion of you? Why mwm1331, my opinion is that of a foreigner! Why should it matter to you? No, the only opinion you should care about is that of the 1000+ soldiers who left their wives and kids behind, forever.

I judge myself based on the fact that I see this war as a senseless waste of life on both sides. And as a result, am proud that I can stand up and say NO to it.

There was no reason to do so, unless you were a communist and a traitor to your nation.

how about this. You are a traitor to your people if you supported the US govts actions and sending tens of thousands of young boys to their deaths and countless thousand coming back with serious wounds and drug problems all over a war that the US should of stayed out of. The people of the United States are the United States, they are who you give your life to defend, not some bureaucratic organization controlled by the few and is used as a tool for benefitting the rich and sending the poor to go fight their wars.

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by Jamuhn
You're just pissed off that you had to get involved in a war and go through all that crap. You want everyone else to feel the suffering you went through as a result of Vietnam. Don't put your personal problems on us.
[edit on 10-10-2004 by Jamuhn]

Jamuhn - what makes you think Grady is a real vet? Just because he posts a picture of his "medals" online doesn't make him authentic.

I have 2 Vietnam vets in the family. Trust me, Grady should be taken with a grain of salt.