Refusing To Put A Normal Child On Psych Drugs Results In Swat Teams and a Tank

reply to post by Annee


I am giving an opinion based off of watching his behavior in court, and the fact that he was seeing someone already. I have worked for several years in admissions for a mental hospital (in the 90's), and so has my wife (she still works there, actually, as an LVN).

No, i am no doctor. I am issuing a fairly well informed opinion, however, based on hundreds of individual cases I have dealt with in my life. He had a psychotic break. Maybe not schizophrenia...but a psychotic break nonetheless. You could see him responding to voices. That was what all those facial expressions were about....the voices and his responses to them that he is completely powerless to hide. I could talk for hours about identical behaviors I have seen in patients with a diagnoses of schizophrenia, schizoaffective, or psychotic disorder (not otherwise specified).

That and 2 bucks will buy you a Coke.

reply to post by WorkingClassMan


Let me start by saying that far from "entitling" you to your opinion, I was making the strong distinction between that opinion as an opinion and the ramifications of that opinion if acted upon. Your opinion has no support of law. Further, your deflection of the "tank" has no relevance. I don't care if there was a tank there or not, either way SWAT acted unlawfully, that is, at this point, a settled fact. SWAT used their awesome machinery to enforce a bogus "order" that was not approved by any judge and was not in any way due process of law.

You waste a lot of words on empty rhetoric, absurdly attempting to frame the reaction to this act of unconstitutionality as "over-dramatizing" while you haplessly and hopelessly defend the use of SWAT to extricate a child from her mother as not an over-dramatized action. Your use of empty rhetoric is necessary if you are going to continue replying because your ignorance of the law will not serve you in this thread. An ignorance you seem hell bent intent on showing repeatedly.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Annee

 

I am giving an opinion based off of watching his behavior in court, and the fact that he was seeing someone already. I have worked for several years in admissions for a mental hospital (in the 90's), and so has my wife (she still works there, actually, as an LVN).

And I have problems with Bi-Polar and my aunt died in a mental hospital. So what.

There is no blood test diagnosis. Sometimes it takes years of trial and error - - - to determine cause or even successfully treat symptoms.

To say you can diagnose by observation is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Keep the daughters name in mind? What sort of odious prediction is this?

I don't waste my time with you - - - so this is the only response.

Maybe if you used 90% less words.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Annee

 

I am giving an opinion based off of watching his behavior in court, and the fact that he was seeing someone already. I have worked for several years in admissions for a mental hospital (in the 90's), and so has my wife (she still works there, actually, as an LVN).

And I have problems with Bi-Polar and my aunt died in a mental hospital. So what.

There is no blood test diagnosis. Sometimes it takes years of trial and error - - - to determine cause or even successfully treat symptoms.

To say you can diagnose by observation is ludicrous.

If it takes years to diagnose you as psychotic, then either you aren't psychotic and the doctor is placating you as a borderline personality, or your doctor is abysmal. In either case, you would need a new doctor.

You diagnose by symptoms. A schizophrenics symptoms are very obvious. Sure, it may take a week or two to narrow down what is causing what you are observing....but since the medications to treat are generally fairly wide spectrum, it isn't like there is really rocket science.

Most psychiatric MD's are doctors whose licenses are probated in their normal field. At least from what I have seen. What other reason would a doctor work at a mental hospital for 250k/yr when they can make 2.5mil/yr in private practice?

Regardless, I am not diagnosing anyone. i am telling you, and i will restate to help you understand, I am offering a fairly well informed opinion. You seem to think mental health is some intricate puzzle, and have a difference of opinion. Having background in mental health i could tell you how you are incorrect, but don't think it will matter as you can always find something on Google to support any position....and then we are just left with a silly tit for tat.

ETA: you are right that it sometimes takes awhile to find treatment for psychosis...or it used to. They don't throw around Haldol and Resperidol anymore. I was horrified to hear that is what they prescribed this young girl. Resperidol is not a joke, and it not something you should give light heartedly But, like i have said, i have seen doctors play loose and fast a lot in my life, and have very, very little faith in psychiatric MD's. Most often nowadays it is Zyprexa or Seroquel. Maybe add in lithium to help with the bipolars w psychotic. But there just aren't that many good options for treatment for it take actually take years....unless there is a med compliance issue.

reply to post by Annee

I don't waste my time with you - - - so this is the only response. Maybe if you used 90% less words.

How many times are you going to keep saying that before you just make it so? It makes sense that the same one who makes a post predicting an innocent little girl will grow up to become a maniacal mass murderer with absolutely no data or evidence to support such a heartless and cruel prediction complains about "too many words" in a post. You could have researched Holmes a bit before foolishly insinuating Holmes had a history of mental illness but that would have been too many words to read.

reply to post by ninjas4321


I really wish I could view this video right now, because I'm just baffled...they actually ran a tank for this? Not only is it strange that not putting a child on anti-psych meds resulted in a SWAT team, but that team brought a tank?! Was the woman threatening others with high-powered weaponry? Discounting the most important aspect - that being the sheer insanity of this - who us getting fired over the enormous expense incurred to perpetrate such an -i'm assuming- illegal act on this woman, and us she suing / pressing charges?

Originally posted by Annee
There is always more then one side. Kind of difficult to really know in this one.

The situation first caught headlines when 58-year-old Maryanne Godboldo entered a standoff with Detroit Police in late March that lasted nearly 12 hours. It began when Maryanne fired a shot at a CPS worker and police escort who arrived at her home in an attempt to take her 13-year-old daughter. CPS workers were there to take the girl after reports surfaced that the mother refused to give the child needed medication. Maryanne Godboldo has said the state wanted her daughter to take a drug for psychosis, but she favors a holistic treatment. detroit.cbslocal.com...

I don't condone her actions in that, but it seems more of where she was pushed to the brink having to fight a fight she shouldn't have to, over her child.

This has gotten to a point where ridiculous is still a euphemism.

The U.S. is clearly not a first world country anymore.

Maybe you exported a bit too much of your freedom around the world and forgot to keep a little of it for yourselves.

oh for crying out loud!!!!!!!!!!

will the terrorists please stop hating our freedoms now?

Originally posted by CallYourBluff

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by CallYourBluff

 

No, i would rather stand and say "This is enough".

No time or money from court would compensate me for the effect of having the police show up at my house with a tank, rip my child from my arms, and then hold them hostage in a mental hospital while I have to prove that I have rights.

I don't prove I have rights. I am sickened that people feel that they ahve to prove their rights. That isn't how it works, despite how toxic our system has grown.

Yes, i am a level headed man. But I am not one to allow authority to push me around either. Lucky for me, it hasn't yet been an issue. Luckier for me, I live in a part of the world where people don't feel that they have to meddle so much.

"Sigh" Nevermind, here, i'm sure you will appreciate this. Guns,Guns,Guns...

ETA: You do realise that the people who show up at your door are not the ones making the laws. Waving your guns around shouting I have had enough wont change a damn thing.

edit on 29-7-2012 by CallYourBluff because: (no reason given)

CYB, I'll bet a few people said something similar right before Lexington and Concord. They were wrong too. Then there was the Boston Tea Party. Yeah, I think sometimes when you say enough is enough in the right way
you can change history.

just saying.

JPZ, hope I never get on the wrong side of an argument with you, unless I'm totally prepared.


peace

reply to post by ninjas4321


Amazing that we have to see our own people treated like this every single day. To even think of all the money wasted by dragging out a court case that should never have been! Typical #ing irony, right?

Why does this stuff keep happening?

reply to post by Trappenin


Wow that was the best and most valid point I ever read on ats. If I knew you outside of ats I would make you my best friend lol, but in all seriousness aren't you doing the same thing? what do you sugest be done? What actions should people take? Are you going to solve the problem or just talk about it? Please let me know. Also don't forget to choose your words wisely you could be deemed a terrorist.

We are running out of time in America.

It is already the case that revolutionarianism and ideas counter to the mainstream are classified as typical of mental illness. It will very soon be the absolute case throughout the U.S. that if you are diagnosed with an illness and prescribed a drug, failure to comply with your course of psychopharmacotherapy will result in legal action.

The system is already fundamentally unjust in economic terms; political injustice as a total policy is an inevitability.



Civil disobedience and nonviolent protest are concepts sold to the American people for the purpose of preventing actual political change. History tells us how positive change for the people is achieved, and it is almost never done peacefully.

Slogans and commentary on internet forums will not save us. But the sharing of ideas will help galvanize resistance.

Within a generation, revolutionaries in any Western nation will be facing military might that is simply unmanageable without recourse to trillions of dollars worth of armament and equipment. DARPA is coordinating efforts to construct the weapons and produce the soldiers once thought of as science fiction. If they are not already in existence and ready for deployment, they very soon will be. The history of freedom is always and incontrovertibly linked to the capacity of the average citizen to threaten his or her government with imminent overthrow, and the elites with imminent death. No other source of power exists.

Originally posted by ReadyPower

Glad the lady won at least.. this is a reason I never go to the damn hospital.. or call police.

No joke just stay out the way is my motto... something is going on and it's not good.

Originally posted by Trappenin
If we weren't all so "connected" to our devices, I feel we could offer help and give help when it's needed. Now we just sit at home, or anywhere with internet connection and rant about things that make us mad, sad, glad. See anything wrong with that?

We talk about all these things that are wrong in the USA, but what do we do about it?
I'm not talking about sending letters to state reps, because that really is ineffective. The state rep, Im willing to bet, probably doesn't even read his mail. His assistants just notify him of the important letters (bills, people sending letters claiming they will take harsh action if so and so bill isn't passed).

The system we live in doesn't work for the people. It works for the ones who created the system, while we watched, amazed at what we can create and engineer. The mass public has become something of it's own organism. They get wiled up and amazed when things happen that they can't explain. They get outraged when something happens, that shouldn't be happening. Like the shooting, cops were too late, and cops are always too late.

My apartment got broken into, and it took cops 3 hours to get there, to tell me they aren't going to fingerprint or pursue anything further, because I'm a college kid and they deemed the things stolen to not be of real value. Cops don't work, they are for the money.


When we realize that money is the root of evil, and then we realize we don't have to ,live our lives on money. Of course at this point, how else would we live? We've become addicted to money as a whole population. Everything requires money, and service and trade skills are rarely used for anything other than money. It's all about stacking dat cheddar now adays. Which is a whole different thread in itself.

OT:
This situation is of course, incredibly out of control, and a total waste of extreme force. If a woman doesn't want to give her kid synthetic drugs that have been human tested for maybe 5 years, then let her continue to not dose her up that could give her daughter some onset disease later in life. Drugs have become what we thrive on, and its purchased by money! Take this for that, but it will give you these effects. These pills take care of those effects, but leave you with runny poops, thin blood, and what have you.
This lady is excersizing whats left of our right to be "free". If anyone disagrees with what she did, then I really don't know what to tell you. You must like being forced onto the teet of gov't when all they produce is sour milk that your body adapts to, and it leaves a very distinct "smell" about you.

Rant over. Woman did the right thing, our secret police of the world police acted like a scared puppy when she refused their meds.

If I could give you more stars I would....very well said....for me and others I'm sure!

Originally posted by ReadyPower
Seriously, why? Do the tank drivers and Swat guys not realize how absurd this was??

Glad the lady won at least.. this is a reason I never go to the damn hospital.. or call police.

That's what is troubling here. We've got police that are going to just bring the tank to a house to force mommy to give some meds.

The other absurd thing is that these SWAT teams and police departments now have tanks. WTF? Have the bad guys built RoboCop when I went to bed last night? Is there some armed militia with laser beams we have to deal with?

SWAT teams are being used more often and police departments are getting more black boots and shiny weapons. It seems to me that the MENTALITY is purposely being manipulated.

>> What I would be looking for, is police and SWAT teams that get reprimanded FOR NOT BRINING A TANK to a ladies house. It's the upper management that is sending the message that it's OK to be violent, it's OK to have an over the top response. It's OK to blow up the wrong house based on a rumor of Pot.

reply to post by ninjas4321


Im still finding this hard to believe, did they actually take her daughter away from her for nine months?

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by WorkingClassMan

 

Let me start by saying that far from "entitling" you to your opinion, I was making the strong distinction between that opinion as an opinion and the ramifications of that opinion if acted upon. Your opinion has no support of law. Further, your deflection of the "tank" has no relevance. I don't care if there was a tank there or not, either way SWAT acted unlawfully, that is, at this point, a settled fact. SWAT used their awesome machinery to enforce a bogus "order" that was not approved by any judge and was not in any way due process of law.

You waste a lot of words on empty rhetoric, absurdly attempting to frame the reaction to this act of unconstitutionality as "over-dramatizing" while you haplessly and hopelessly defend the use of SWAT to extricate a child from her mother as not an over-dramatized action. Your use of empty rhetoric is necessary if you are going to continue replying because your ignorance of the law will not serve you in this thread. An ignorance you seem hell bent intent on showing repeatedly.

No wonder you have so many stars JPZ. That was well said.

How, can anyone defend CPS, or the police involved in this? How was this a case of a crazy mother that might harm her child? This was a mother concerned for her daughters well being, that was taking steps to protect her. She ended up in jail for it.

I have a good friend that was investigated by CPS too. His child has a mental condition, and regularly hurts himself(running into walls, jumping down stairs ect..). After a bad case, they took their son to the hospital concerned about his latest injury. The doctors are required by law to notify CPS of possible abuse. due to bruises their child had, they did. CPS came to the hospital, and basically had him arrested at the hospital for child abuse. It was cleared later, but he missed a few days at work and it took a couple months... He's also an active duty Marine. What if we needed him on a deployment? He can't go now, he can't even carry a rifle. He didn't do anything wrong, and this COULD have ended his career as a Marine. Is that a "Mistake"? Yes it was, is CPS sorry? no, he never got anything from them saying they are sorry for what they put him through.