Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

reply to post by ImaFungi

I gotcha, and understand what you're getting at, but part of the idea or future recognition imbedded or enfolded in this analysis and examination, is, or will involve, man's true stature and place in the creation being next to the Godhead, whereby the Godhead, as a superdeterministic, cosmological intelligence, fully informed throughout eternity, knew, in advance, precisely when and how to enter the frame, and how to seed his own recognition and realization through the person of Jesus (Yeshua) who's fated calling was to fullfill the prophecy all the way down the line. How this was done, and why, is the mystery we're covering here in this thread, but to follow along to the inexorable conclusion will definitely require a great deal of open-mindedness, even yes to the possibilty (however remote you think it may be) that Jesus Christ really was none other than God in the flesh, for real! But I'm not beginning with that presupposition, it's just where the investigation leads as an ultra-rational conclusion.

Poor Jesus, born in scandal, his parents outcast at his birth (nowhere to go), yet with Magi from the East (likely of Zorastrian influence) locating him according to signs in the heavens, 300 children murdered by Herod to get to him, early years on the run. Then, at an early age as a pre-pubescent child unable to fit in to Jewish society, he leaves, only to spend almost 20 years in training and preparation to make his return and serve as the unblemshed lamb of God... that he did not go totally insane is a wonder in and of itself!

But his life, it was framed in the stars, with the whole prophetic framework of the Torah, among other traditions, all pointing to him and to this Magnum Opus, that he alone is capable of performing.. because it was intended for him alone TO perform.

Also, what I'd like you to consider, is that given enough time, anything, anything at all can and will happen, even the personification of a universal principal of truth and justice, and love.

Hang in there with me and stay open minded.

And there is an astonishment here, a recognition and a realization that simply wouldn't be fathomable prior to the modern age, a recognition and a realization which reveals something rather quite extraordinary about the true nature of this man and his life's work, such that it's only fitting in the final analyis, that we measure our own calendar, to this day, by his life.

Faith cannot be divorced from reason, and if there's a rational basis for faith, isn't it high time that we found it?

I don't need to "be careful", because I've already been through the ringer, so to speak, in the process of this quest/search for the truth, and if there's a "boon to share" then I owe it both to myself and others, to share it.

Best Regards,

NAM

I should add, to avoid any confusion at this point, that in exploring the historical person of Jesus, we are not subscribing to the immaculate conception or the virgin birth story. In the re-borth ("not of flesh, but of the spirit') exchange with Nicodemus previously posted, the inference, however unpleasant it may be to consider, is that there's a "problem" with Jesus' lineage and the reason that no one would give them a place to give birth. Bear in mind that the area was under Roman occupation, and that Joseph, in spite of finding his bride-to-be already pregnant, still married her (if she "cheated" then that wouldn't have happened). Nevertheless, the spirit is always present at every conception no matter the circumstance, and the unfolding of Jesus' life story and what was made possible could not have occured without the loving support of his mother and Joseph (the unsung hero in this part of the story). That Joseph, in a dream, was told by an angel to still marry Mary and to call the child "God saves" (or a variation thereof) seems congruent and is probably true.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan


"Behold, woman (look mom) I make all things new (virginal)!" [while carrying cross]

God works in mysterious ways..

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I enjoy your writing and thought,,, when i said careful i only meant it playfully, not belittling,,,



"but his life, it was framed in the stars, with the whole prophetic framework of the Torah, among other traditions, all pointing to him and to this Magnum Opus, that he alone is capable of performing.. because it was intended for him alone TO perform"


what jesus sought to do he could never perform alone,,,, what jesus sought to do requires all individuals to uphold the simple and obvious and reasonable rules jesus arrived at,, by squeezing the answers out of the mind of god,,,, but only as einstein finagled the answers out of the mind of the universe or plato or pythagorus,,,
the goal is to create a heaven on earth,,, a utopian civilization where the human family is looked at as a family,,,
i do not think we will arrive at this goal by putting jesus on a pedestal or cross and worshipping this idol,, but more-so putting our fellow humans on a pedestal, and in our hearts,, and at our level,, and working together to achieve what is most obviously best for us all, and our future generations,,,,, we have the freedom to craft and establish the systems and ways of humans however we like,, ( see history and cultural regions for examples of the infinite possibilities) jesus was simply fascinated with the ultimate best form of human life and experience.,.,.
so if you do think jesus was sacredly important and it did and only could have come through him ( just as einstein had to form his theories) and that makes him very special,, ok i will say ok,..,,.,. i kind of see it this way,,,,,, humanity is a body,,,,,, everyone does a different job,,,, that makes up the fully functioning body,,, some people are the muscle,, some are the defense,,,, some keep the body healthy,,, etc,,, Jesus would be a portion of the mind,,(godhead?), a great new idea at governing the body,, an idea to transform the body,, into something agreeably better then how it operated before this thought arose,..,

Re: Man's evolved relation to the eternal, cosmological Godhead

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Jesus Christ is the Phi Ratio Son of God

The Golden Proportion is analogous to God’s relationship to creation

The Golden Section, or Phi, found throughout nature, also applies in understanding the relationship of God to Creation. In the golden section, we see that there is only one way to divide a line so that its parts are in proportion to, or in the image of, the whole:

The ratio of the larger section (B) to the whole line (A) is the same as the ratio as the smaller section (C) to the large section (B):

Only “tri-viding” the whole preserves the relationship to the whole
And so it is with our understanding of God, that we are created in His image. Not by dividing the whole, but only by tri-viding the whole does each piece retain its unique relationship to the whole. Only here do we see three that are two that are one.

The Book of John begins with these words that capture the essence of this:

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

Jesus, in John 14:9, expressed a similar thought:

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.


Conclusion:

The human Jesus (the Son of Man) is to the divine Jesus (the Son of God) as the divine Jesus (the Son of God) is to God (the Father or whole).

www.goldennumber.net...

I purport, that during the "lost years" Jesus was indoctrinated into just about all the streams of philosophy and thought and spiritual tradition, without forsaking his Jewish heritage, which was at the core of his system of thinking and beliefs, which would have included:

Greek
Egyptian (Pythagoras)
Toaism and Buddhism
Zoroastrian (which emphasized the incompatibility of good and evil)
Mithriasm
Hindu
Jewish Mysticism (Tree of Life)
etc.

On Buddhist thought, he repudiated it's rather nihilistic conclusion, when he said

"What does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, but lose his own soul." (character, passion ie: desire, selfhood)

reply to post by ImaFungi

Agreed. He was certainly a Magus, a fully self-realized Bodhisatva, and an Alchemist, of the highest order, skills and developed understandings that he certainly didn't aquire merely as a carpenter's apprentice - thus the conclusion that the "lost years" were spent in training and preparation probably under the care, guidance and upbringing of the same Magi who visited him and his parents as a toddler.

This theory is proven out in his relationship with John the Baptist, his principal co-conspirator and initiator who appears to have maintained correspondance with him from somewhere else, while knowing everything already about just who was on his way, and when he would arrive..

The whole thing also needs to be considered within the historical frame of a temple corrupted by imperialist empire that was sucking the life and land out of the little guy (funny how some things never change..), so it's also a clash of empires, or I should say of one man who was a human historical crossroads, with an evil empire.

Unusual to see such quality posts. Thanks for the effort.

Eagerly awaiting your next post.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The whole thing also needs to be considered within the historical frame of a temple corrupted by imperialist empire that was sucking the life and land out of the little guy (funny how some things never change..), so it's also a clash of empires, or I should say of one man who was a human historical crossroads, with an evil empire.

Quite extraordinary when you think of it, that by simply travelling around and "optimising" the little guy, the outcast, the poor and the downtrodden, and then going to the wall for them, relative to this evil empire, that he was able to singlehandedly fell that empire.

And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
~ Mark 13:2

The Sacred Heart of Jesus (encircled by thorns of sorrow)


As vital as this understanding is, fortunately, it's only half of the story.

Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
~ John 13:36, KJV

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
~ John, 14:3

reply to post by ImaFungi

You're right that Jesus framed "enlightenment" (typically "one with everything") within the context of family, or what might be called, to use an Einsteinian type terminology, the relativity of human being.

I think you may have missed, however, the central piece of this very deep and mysterious puzzle which relates directly to the title of this thread, found here in this post.

The Real Star of Bethlehem

You see, the very HOUR of the culmination of his life's work (the first half anyway) was pre-ordained, and while of course it required the participation of others, both knowingly and unwittingly.. (that's the funny part), it's utterly astounding how he was able to manage this, and even how his cousin John the Baptist knew of the "end game" well in advance (three years prior). It reveals a management of resources, and of historical causation, of unparalleled ingenuity (where the woman at the well episode is but a prelude), who's frame of reference moves through every domain and degree of complexity (and order) imaginable, all the way up to the movement (and prophetic import) of the sun, the earth, the moon, the planets, and the stars of the 12 signs of the zodiac and precession of the equinox ie: to "angels ascending and descending on the son of man".

He would have known about the visitation of the Magi and how they found him (that his conception and birth was written in the stars, in this case stars that are planets), and, that Herod had 300 children murdered to try to get to him, and, under the tutelage of those same Magi during the "lost years", precisely when his Magnum Opus would culminate on a certain passover coinciding with an eclipse of the sun and a blood-red moon.

I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal, and you can't get any higher than the height of the twin pillars of justice and mercy anyway!

What he and his life and work demonstrates, is a principal by which the higher, even the highest of the most high, reaches down to raise and uplift the lowly to increasingly higher heights, that we might also get to be where he is, which is at the very right hand of the Godhead itself, provided we don't assume and are willing to take a lower seat!


And when we move backwards through the story, and kind of "reverse-engineer" it (in the form of a textual criticism - see "Woman at the Well" thread), this idea holds water, and can be seen threading itself through all of his teachings and actions, about being sent and completing what he was sent to do/perform.

But by "sent" here, we don't mean born a half-God hybrid, but sent by both fate and circumstance as a sent calling, yet nevertheless one that was first sent out yes, even from before the very foundation of the world (formation of the solar system).

However, who he became and identified himself with/as was not of the flesh, but of a purely spiritual nature in an almost Hindu-type relationship between a beloved and beloved other, whereby atma and brahma, are one.


I warned people at the outset that this wouldn't "compute"!


Best Regards,


NAM

How did he know?

And by "he" who are we talking about?

Punk'd by God the Master Conspirator?


I guess at some point in this thread, as we move through the "outer portico" of the standard doctrine of salvation (which works), we'll need to explore the deeper meaning and significance of his Magnum Opus involving, on the one hand, a singular point of Liberation (with a capital L), and on the other, what might be called a "double bind" of sorts, or in this case a ah.. 10 to the nth degree, bind? Oh what utter genius!

Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

~ Mathew 12:29 KJV

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

For additional context re: Mathew 12 (must read - also contains "sign of Jonah" saying within the same contextual frame of reference)
www.biblegateway.com...

NIV Translation

29 “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

"All the treasure is in Christ, and the treasure is his love."
~ a little mantra I developed which carried me through a very difficult time (what might be called "the dark night of the soul"), and which worked wonders!


I ought to point out that by double bind I am referring to something that forces the contemplation of a paradox (the problem of sin), and which contains imbedded within itself, the resolution to the problem in this case the incompatibility of sin and evil with the goodness and righteousness of God as a God of love.

Thus, at least according to my understanding, it involves the dissolution of hell and "Satan" where such things were found by Jesus to reside within the psyche of man ie: when he said to Peter who was imploring him not to go through with it "Get thee behind me Satan! You're thinking as man thinks, not as God thinks."

In this way, Jesus' Great Work or Magnum Opus crashed the gates (threshold) of hell, leaving nothing behind.

If only the official church doctrine wasn't all about manning the wrong gate and keeping hell well stoked in the name of Jesus Christ..?!!! (see, that's a good example of a double bind right there, if only the Pope were following this thread..! lol)

I hope I haven't lost anyone...

I'm lost so far but I'll continue reading. Maybe you should have pieced this all together first and then posted. If I get to the end and I'm not astonished I'm gonna be pissed!!!!

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Toward the end of this post I make some points of note toward the existence of the "Piso Theory", which is a complete fabrication, dreamed up in the 1970s.

To be honest, I cannot disagree with the logic you present in that post you reference. It is obvious and true that there are entire neighborhoods of websites created for the sole purpose of creating manufactured consent. And then there are the "Eternal September" noobs who will run with any "ZOMG, ALIENS!!!" conspiracy that they can find. This is the wasteland that is Google.

And before I say this, I will fully recognize that you cannot really prove a negative. So I am not asking for proof or anything. But what I would like is something other than your logic. Yes, your logic is something I buy into (and consider often myself, to be honest...i know how propaganda works). But to support your logic, perhaps something else that would dispute the whole Piso theory?

It isn't like it matters a whole lot. It won't change my position on faith...only give me a more informed picture. And that is all I really want.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Toward the end of this post I make some points of note toward the existence of the "Piso Theory", which is a complete fabrication, dreamed up in the 1970s.

To be honest, I cannot disagree with the logic you present in that post you reference. It is obvious and true that there are entire neighborhoods of websites created for the sole purpose of creating manufactured consent. And then there are the "Eternal September" noobs who will run with any "ZOMG, ALIENS!!!" conspiracy that they can find. This is the wasteland that is Google.

And before I say this, I will fully recognize that you cannot really prove a negative. So I am not asking for proof or anything. But what I would like is something other than your logic. Yes, your logic is something I buy into (and consider often myself, to be honest...i know how propaganda works). But to support your logic, perhaps something else that would dispute the whole Piso theory?

It isn't like it matters a whole lot. It won't change my position on faith...only give me a more informed picture. And that is all I really want.

Because there is historical evidence regarding the authorship of the books of the New Testament, at least what the early church thought about it, there is clear indication that who ever wrote them was intimately familiar with the places, culture and beliefs of Judea, and there are obviously multiple authors.

Counter that with no evidence whatsoever of these Pisos, prior to the 1970s, the complete lack of cited sources for claims made in books on the "Roman Pisos" and the utter ludicrousness of the claims. "Acts is a travel guide to Roman brothels." Seriously?

reply to post by adjensen



I haven't done more than casually read a few bits on it. So i have nothing to dispute or add one way or the other. Except that "Piso" means "floor" or "foundation".

I may have to dig some more to find out info one way or the other. If anyone else has anything that they can share, I would love to read it. adjensen....if i ever get to be able to find the time to read more on it, we can have the discussion. But i am not yet ready to use logic on this, as i am still needing to gather facts.

Originally posted by conspiracy88
If I get to the end and I'm not astonished I'm gonna be pissed!!!!

If you could, just re-read the post I made three posts up I believe @ 05:25 PM. And watch the Real Star of Bethlehem videos (there are 7 relatively short Youtube clips), then look at the title of the thread, run through it again, including the links offered, and come back, and then tell me you're not astonished..
and if that doesn't work, let me know when you're satisfied that we're really onto something.. thanks.

"There is nothing now hidden which will not be made known and brought to light."

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Interlude

bump..

I can't wait until some of you, the readers, start what I would call "popping" in what can only be described as the immaculate humor of perfect understanding at the unreasonable reasonableness of the proposition made by Jesus in his superdeterministic, cosmological great work.

Let me know who's the first to "get it" to really grok the contents of this thread, to the degree that you have an epiphany and slap your knees or the desk in front of you and burst out laughing, at what I would call the simplicity on the far side of complexity.

I simply cannot be the only one laughing here..

And if I'm the first, I promise you that I won't be the last, what fun would that be?

...stay tuned..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
After the ordeal in Jerusalem, during what I'll call his "happy years", vacationing and travelling (more on that to follow) one wonders how the elder Jesus aka Issa (by some), might have celebrated the winter solstice.. (more on that as well)..

In imitation of Christ..?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Saint Nicholas @ Nicaea

Bishop Nicholas Loses His Cool (At The Council of Nicaea)


In AD 325 Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea, the very first ecumenical council. More than 300 bishops came from all over the Christian world to debate the nature of the Holy Trinity. It was one of the early church's most intense theological questions. Arius, from Egypt, was teaching that Jesus the Son was not equal to God the Father. Arius forcefully argued his position at length. The bishops listened respectfully.
As Arius vigorously continued, Nicholas became more and more agitated. Finally, he could no longer bear what he believed was essential being attacked. The outraged Nicholas got up, crossed the room, and slapped Arius across the face! The bishops were shocked. It was unbelievable that a bishop would lose control and be so hotheaded in such a solemn assembly. They brought Nicholas to Constantine. Constantine said even though it was illegal for anyone to strike another in his presence, in this case, the bishops themselves must determine the punishment.
The bishops stripped Nicholas of his bishop's garments, chained him, and threw him into jail. That would keep Nicholas away from the meeting. When the Council ended a final decision would be made about his future.
Nicholas was ashamed and prayed for forgiveness, though he did not waver in his belief. During the night, Jesus and Mary his Mother, appeared,* asking, "Why are you in jail?" "Because of my love for you," Nicholas replied. Jesus then gave the Book of the Gospels to Nicholas. Mary gave him an omophorion, so Nicholas would again be dressed as a bishop. Now at peace, Nicholas studied the Scriptures for the rest of the night.
When the jailer came in the morning, he found the chains loose on the floor and Nicholas dressed in bishop's robes, quietly reading the Scriptures. When Constantine was told of this, the emperor asked that Nicholas be freed. Nicholas was then fully reinstated as the Bishop of Myra.
The Council of Nicaea agreed with Nicholas' views, deciding the question against Arius. The work of the Council produced the Nicene Creed which to this day many Christians repeat weekly when they stand to say what they believe.

www.stnicholascenter.org...

One wonders what the other Bishop was talking about when he was arguing against the fundamental idea that Jesus as the son is of the same essence as the father, which so outraged the sensibilities of Nicholas that he marched over and in effect bopped him one (or slapped hard across the face with a glove same dif)..?!

I purport that Nicholas, being part of the Council of Nicea, was certainly aware of the story of the elder Jesus, and as such, intentionally set out to mimic what he knew of him, who come winter solstice may have liked nothing more than to deck himself out in a red cloak with white trimmings (in remembrance of his Magnum Opus), giving blessings (even gifts) to children, and dedicating himself to them, and to all, with no more miracles or signs and wonders required, his job completed back in Jerusalem.
Children, and the love of children, and gift giving - how appropriate would that be, when we realize of course that Jesus own childhood might not have been the happiest..

and speaking earlier of the Pope..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

BBC News
Thursday, 22 December 2005, 05:07 GMT

'Santa Pope' woos Vatican crowds

Pope Benedict XVI appears to be getting into a different kind of Christmas spirit, donning a Santa-style hat for his weekly appearance at the Vatican.
At a chilly St Peter's Square, the Pope draped a red cloak over his shoulders and covered his head with a red velvet hat lined with white fur.

PULLING THE HAT DOWN TIGHT [Shhhhhh!]
(nice white suit too, dazzling, shiney!!)

Am I suggesting here that Father Christmas is or was actually based upon or styled after, the resurrected Jesus? Yes.

Is there a Santa? Only you can be the judge of that,
but spiritually, I'd say that yes, in part Jesus is not only the reason for the season, but also the spirit of Christmas, which used to drive me crazy every year, the unsolved mystery of it, but not any more.
Yes Virginia, there really is a Santa!