Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

And just so that the whole thing isn't TOO ah.. narcissistically solipsistic (cosmologically speaking), Jesus Christ is as much the son of man as he is the son of God and the bright morning star, whereby we are all made, at least in potentia, in the image and likeness of God, and who although last (most recent), are first, and not to be excluded, but enveloped, as the Prodigal Son returned home at last, and the lost sheep recovered. So while some who've worked at enmity against God's plan for humanity and the world, might very well end up weaping and wailing and gnashing their teeth at the final realization, it's a time for the rest of us to celebrate and give thanks, that God did for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Continuing Study...

Aside from re-reading the Gospels with an open mind, free from any sort of contemptous bias prior to re-examination/investigation, which would be essential for further study and inquiry
for those who are interested in what might be thought of as a progressive, evolutionary, Christian mysticism, I highly recommend the blog entries, and books, of a felllow seeker and friend/acquaintance of mine by the name of Bruce Sanguin, who's a United Church of Canada Minister in Vancouver.

Although I personally disagree with his apparently circuitous and willfully blind-eyed ignorance (born of an understandable aversion towards conservative fundamentalism) of the the twin pillars of absolute Justice, and Mercy, seen at the heart (and on both sides) of the Cross of Jesus Christ (atonement), something which I think if he were to explore more fully would reveal it's evolutionary principal to his inquisitive eye - I nevertheless value his thinking and his continued strivings greatly, and thus recommend his writings, most if not all of which would fall under the catagory of an evolutionary Christian spirituality / mysticism.

brucesanguin.com...

He would agree with me I think that imbedded in Jesus' personal mission and vision for us all resides an evolutionary, participatory eschatology, or the fundamental drive and purpose, to grow, and to flourish, at all levels, while working diligently to bring about the end of an outmoded world-system and reality, and the beginning of the new creation, at all levels, whereby the impetus and stimulant or catalyst to all our efforts and strivings to realize transformation of our world involves the same spirit of Wisdom and the Love of God embodied in/through the person of Jesus Christ.

In short, I think Bruce is really onto something very important, especially if Christianity is to maintain it's viability and essential even VITAL importance (import and export) to our modern and post-modern world, because it's in the HOPE inherent in the realization of Christ, who was, who is, and who is to come, that springs eternal, from which the new creation will emerge, eventually.

I like how Bruce struggles with his intuitive, faith-based reason, in the face of our everyday reality, without forsaking the principal at the heart of his own Christian experience and faith. It's quite inspiring, and offers a somewhat novel approach which may resonate for seekers who simply can't lump themselves in with the fundamentalists or the Roman Catholics, but yet who recognize great value in the teachings and the character and person of Jesus Christ as an authentic model of leadership, even the embodiment of the love of God as an intercessory Grace, which never dies.

Do I agree with everything he says, no. Where Bruce thinks that God is evolving co-creatively along with his creation (process theology), I feel that I've shown that the same one God was self-aware the whole way down the line ie: unchanging, whereas it is we, as the apex of his creation, who are evolving evermoreso into God, with Jesus as the ultimate prototype. Even if presented with the whole Star of Bethlehem and passover eclipse idea presented in this thread to show God's superdeterministic, supernatural (supra-natural) intercession in cosmic time and human history, I doubt Bruce would or could accept it in the same way he only accepts the resurrection, allegorically, but I still like his style and approach. If you ever run across this thread while googling, Bruce Sanguin, I hope you might be able to glean some value from it as we surely will from your writings.

More on Bruce and his writings pre-Googled here

Best Regads,

NAM

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

john 17:22

And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one

my favourite part is that Jesus only had one real goal
unity, although to get to that point took infinite understanding and much patience,

love your brothers and sisters as i have loved you, without condition,
protect the week,
feed the hungry,
love unconditionally all things.

peace and light to you for your thread, your trials in life make you strong,
your love makes me smile

share it unconditionally


xploder

You got it! You "grok".

But "patience"? That's the undertatement of the ages!

How did he KNOW?!

It still absolutely floors me, in both astonishment and a laughter and type of hyper-freedom (OMG what do we do now?) that I can't quite explain. I just hope I'm not the only one to really get the magnitude of it, of the degree of high-precision, superdeterministic planning involved to bring it about, not just in a human lifetime, but in the fullness of all time and history, to the very foundation of the world which would include by extension, that of this universe.

Just in case anyone missed it..

The Day of the Cross
www.bethlehemstar.net...

What does this mean?
www.bethlehemstar.net...

The Day of the Cross
www.bethlehemstar.net...

Three Days Later @ The Dawning of a New Day! : )




and so the dance went on..

Nothing was lost (that he could not also retrieve according to his father's will), and everything gained, for us, for us all, so that we too in our being and becoming more one, and more AWARE might come to realize and recognize just who sent him, as per his prayer in the garden, that it would all be for our mutual glorification through the son (in him) in the father, from who's hand nothing and no one can steal away, let alone any part of heaven, which is forever held in reserve for those who love him, and hey what's not to love..?!

I'll (we'll?) take what you're offering Lord, but isn't it a little over the top maybe..? LOL (not at all, he says..in my spirit)


Oh death where is your sting?

But wait there's more!

He's still alive!



This is what you need to understand and realize, if you're given the humor of understanding with which to "understand" it that is.

God may have been processed for our enjoyment as OUR spiritual food (and not the other way around) but in the process, he also came to sympathize with us in our plight, which in the light of his triumph, can only be rendered humorous according to our own newfound understanding and perspective, namely that God is real, loving, sharing, and funny as all get out, but only in a good way, because his laughter is always loving and joyful, never mocking, ever. He's the laughter that shuts evil laughter up, once and for all time, you see. That's as good as the smile and the joy capable of wiping away the tears from our eyes, even if only because of the demon we might have once held, within!

And so as St. Paul said "if God then is FOR us - who or what can stand against us?", or against the rock of eternal reason that is the mind of Christ, let alone the passion of his heart for all God's children? No one.

So it's an idea whose time has come then, when the white rock is given to the overcomer who gives it it's name, which I would call, if it were up to me (aside from philosophers stone or some sort of Harry Potter name lol) OURS, because it's a shared koinonia in the spirit, and the reason, of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen (it demanded to be typed!).

Cosmogenesis 2012

The day that someone, anyone, in reading and digesting and "grokking" this thread, and after also absorbing, even as if for the first time, the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John,, on return here, and after further, careful consideration and clear-eyed evaluative discernment - whoever goes "ah HA!" and then suddenly in an epiphany capable of moving you to not only "get" the cosmic joke, but to realize, that once you do, it just keeps on getting better and better, while opening new and ever greater doors of new possibility and new freedom (pasture! lol) domains of which you would never have considered before for the life of you - when that happens, this thread and the info and revelation it contains will have successfully launched itself into the "noosphere" (mindsphere) as an Omegapoint of the "cosmogenesis" (read Pierre Teilhard de Chardin) of a newfound spiritual and Christ-centered realization, just in time, you might say, in preparation for the 2012 Winter Solstice, which THIS realization, as a new creation, represents and signifies. Not destruction, no. Just full-emersion baptism in the humor of recognition and understanding, not unlike Jesus' disciples at Jacob's well who, upon returning from their shopping trip, exhausted, tired and perhaps thirsty, are further flabbergasted at what Jesus has acoomplished (in drawing the townsfolks through the fields to himself via the hysterical ramblings of the woman who he was talking to) only at the end, after hearing about talk of "secret food" and "fields ripe for the harvest they did not work for" - to be offered by Jesus (in spirit of good-natured, good-willed, playful humor) a fresh cold cup of water from an overflowing jug (might have played with them a bit..), left conveniently, even if in haste, on the well's stone wall.

There's water here (in the all-inclusive Christ, including us!), living water, for any who thirst, made freely available, let all who will come and all who hear say "come, and freely drink!" It's the water of the very flow of life itself (continual process of breakdown and reintegration, of death AND resurrection) whereby life meets life in eternity, with joyfilled meaning and purpose of the kind which truly satisfies (not an imposition upon the mind, or the heart). It's the humor of understanding relative to which idle speculation is just more material for the joke of the ages, because everything else, by comparison, is utterly absurd and even absurd to begin with!

"My yoke is easy, and my burden, is light!"


"But, but!" (hark: is someone protesting?!)

And no I'm not crazy, and no I haven't taken any A's..

Join Him, join me, join us - we're on the right side of history, that's for sure!

It's a no-lose proposition, and best of all the "elite" probably haven't even had access to this information, yet. It always goes the little guy first, every time, until the "high and mighty" are left utterly stupified, and with nothing left TO do, but to bow a knee and join the party!

There are only two kinds of tears, those which won't stop, except in horror, rage, anger, bitterness, etc. and those that are capable of being wiped away, and we all cry at some point down the line. Therefore it's always best to get it over with, before it's too late!

So here's the final "double bind", imho, that's being presented in the "thing" in the Magnum Opus of Jesus Christ, and it's an all-or-nothing proposition (as to be expected), posed to us, by him, by what he did and the reasoning behind it, yet initially it's presented in the form of a question, from our perspective, looking back in hindsight (and he would have considered this angle guaranteed) upon it in recognition that at least something quite extraordinary is being intentionally presented to us as a poetic artform (however grave it may appear at first glance).

When we really consider it (the double bind of Jesus), It evokes in us a whole host of reactions and responses (from denial, to anger, resentment, bargaining, pleading, and if that doesn't work pretending, lying about, even outright proseletizing, anything but the actual receipt and understanding of, the thing itself), and let's face it, we've been talking about this for 2000 years now (even mark our annual calendar by it), so most everyone obviously thinks it's at least of great historical significance and importance, if not, at first glance (or in willful ignorance or just plain stupidity) of the farthest reaching variety.


=> How can I (we) recieve a free gift, of incalculable value, that I (we) can neither earn nor deserve, or even for that matter, fully fathom in its entirety, as it may have been intended?


unravel that one, and there he is, yet now from HIS perspective, towards us, and then we come to understand, and then a new set of reactions and responses and considerations comes into view..

.. and then at some point down the line, epiphany, and then after the tears the laughter and the smile that wipes away the tears from the eyes.


Allistair Crowley, the brat, and misfit, said that all statements involving "because" are always evil, but that was just his rebellion in opposition to the fact that the answer to "because why?" is and can only be answered by the God of Love, as - Because I love you!

I think we're beginning to understand Lord what you were up to, and what this might mean for us, for those who were hungry and thirsty for the only thing that truly satisfies, and brings joy and happiness to the weary heart. Thank you God. What more can I say?

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

~ Mathew 11:25-30
www.biblegateway.com...

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs —heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

~ Romans 8:14-17
www.biblegateway.com...

whoa!

and so finally we get to the place that takes the breath away where the value of mere words, comes to an end, without the need of any further questions, just the _________ itself whatever it actually is, being both at once infinitely mysterious and infinitely reasonable both at the same time.

Some of course might say - I don't want it! And that's ok too, but it still doesn't diminish the value of what's being presented unconditionally, and as an all-inclusive, non-coersive proposition.. !

I don't know about you, but for me, it really makes me smile and laugh out loud (for all the right reasons) when the double-bind of an apparent paradox finally resolves itself, as it was meant to, in both the mind and the heart, who surrender the ego (who and what we thought we were ie: very small and insignificant) in the face of it's absolute perfection, splendour and beauty, and imcomprehensibility by the previously egoically-centered "rational faculty". I think it's hilarious, but it can't just be me..

No, I have faith in people, in their "grokking" capability, so I know you got it..

I love you, all (including the atheists),

NAM aka Bob

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Sublimecraft

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like a storekeeper who brings forth from his storehouse both something old and something new."

Jesus understood that there's nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come, and it appears, very clearly, that it was he who sent it out, like a message in a bottle, to be opened by the first generation capable of understanding and decoding it, and that's OUR generation and THIS moment in history, as solipsistic as that may seem, but it get's even better and still more astounding, in my own experience, whereby, upon receipt of the message, we, the intended recipient, open it and then exclaim to our utter fascination, if not glee, when we see that it was and could only have been, intended, for none other than we ourselves, at this moment in history - "HOW DID HE KNOW?!"

And when we put the question to God, how DID you know? he just smiles without saying anything, as if he alone is in on the very best inside joke of all ages, which produces the last, loving chuckle, and the love that never ends, while we, as the children of God we were always meant to be, and as the bright morning stars (enlightened, with wonderment and awe in sympathetic understanding with the Christ-mind), while playfully co-creating with God (who has at last made his home with us, with we as his people and He, our God) - continue to sing His praises even as we discover the next galaxy cluster, in formation.

But his timing was absolute impeccable, as it pertains to us, and his Magnum Opus, performed here of all places, unique in all creation, as a type of cosmic dirge, and as a poetic lovesong rendered as an artform, the finger prints of God, unmistakble.

We know you now Lord, and who sent you, thank you for everything, and for sending us as you were sent, and thank you for the keystone in the royal arch across which we may begin to pass, however fast or slowly, over and into a new life and a new creation of everlasting life and freedom, and as a new domain of limitless possibility including the space to be our truest and most authentic self, while loving you, God, above all as the all in all (+ awareness) and our neighbor as ourselves - what an opportunity! What a revelation!

Cosmogenesis of the Noosphere

You see, or as some of you may see - through him (in sympathetic understanding) and with him, we complete his joy, making both his joy AND ours, complete.

And who can say that the center and source of a joy such as this, isn't everlasting and sustaining..?

Therefore, let us welcome God's loving embrace. And how can we not?

How can we ever reject the love of God, when the love of God has already been given permission (in recognition) to enter our own sacred heart where God lives in us, as intended by design? But here's the thing; if they, as one, are in us, as one, with us in them, and if WE are so one that we know who Jesus is and who sent him - if God is thus FOR us in this manner, then who or what can stand against us, and why would they even want to? lol

There's an indominable reason to all this, you see (for those who can see it), what I would call a rational basis for faith, one which upon understanding and recognition, is certain to evoke the good-willed, good-natured, loving humor of true understanding amid the joy and celebration of a triumphant liberation (to the nth degree) - setting us free at last, to freely love as we are loved, and in so doing, set free for his sake and for the sake of his boundless love - we can move whole MOUNTAINS (of historical causation) even by the sheer weight of his reason alone (white stone fulcrum) relative to which the ignorance and stupidity of man is rendered, well, stupified, while we his sheep who hear his voice, pass straight through and into new pasture with bright smiling faces, the stupidity and ignorance of the past left squarely and safely behind, in the dust, but not without making it all the brunt of a great shared joke, here at the end of history as we know it.

Because when it comes to exploring, by comparison, the depth and breadth of plain old human ignorance and stupidity, now that the rock of ages is coming of age - you ain't seen nuthin yet..!

God help the politicians!!!


Best Regards,

NAM

Would you ever consider John the Baptist being Jesus' boyfriend and lover? The apostle 'John' was considered the beloved apostle and Da Vinci painted a painting of the infant Jesus and John the Baptist kissing. Could this be the code that Da Vinci hid in his paintings?

Jesus and John the apostle (John the Baptist) were said to have kissed frequently. The man/woman to the left of Jesus in 'The Last Supper' is not Mary Magdalene but the apostle John, a.k.a. John the Baptist. Jesus also commented that John the Baptist was the greatest man on Earth at one point.

The book of John could have also been written by John the Baptist. Maybe this is the conspiracy Da Vinci was hinting at in his paintings?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I think you would need to start a separate thread to get some actual discussion going on about your theory.

I doubt NewAgeMan has any intention of contemplating anything like it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No it was Mary Magdalene who Jesus was reported to have kissed frequently and on the lips, from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas I believe it was. Also John was already beheaded by the time the last supper occured, and the one to Jesus' right (our left) is "officially" John the younger (John the Baptist was older) but in truth the only way that daVinci's painting can be read as per it's intent (in it's full context) is if the person to Jesus' right is Mary Magdalene, the hidden implication of the painting being that while the moment depicted is when Jesus said one of them was to betray him, that he's somehow betrayed them all because he intends to be wed and head for those hills yonder after he's successfully survived the ordeal of the cross. It's a blasphemous joke which although it may contain a certain truth, is only daVinci's interpretation and therefore cannot be correlated with historical fact, although it makes sense that the 2nd half of Jesus' life, post-resurrection, to be full human experience (remember the sign from his father in the form of a full moon lunar eclipse) might also include human sexuality, and romantic love, but in short, no I don't think that Jesus was gay or that John the Baptist was his lover - what's with you?! I don't understand this strong urge of yours to utterly corrupt the story as it's portrayed. Haven't I done it enough harm as it is for your taste?

Check this out for closer analysis of daVinci's The Last Supper

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Zoom+Scroll Leonardo da Vinci's Blasphemous Joke "The Last Supper" in High Res.

The "gay factor" (if you want to call it that) doesn't arise from Jesus, not based on my investigations and experience (spiritually), no, it arises from the doctrinal rule that priests of the RCC are not allowed to marry, and thus are to be wed with Christ, who whatever else he may have been, was also a man. There is a reason for this I do believe, which I've already speculated on in this very thread, and it doesn't shed a pretty picture on the Roman Catholic Church, let me just put it that way.

Re: John's relationship to Jesus, aside from being cousins, appears to involve a spirit of prophecy combined with secret inside knowledge of Jesus' purpose and destiny, whereby the secret daVinci may be conveying is that John as the elder brother type figure and initiator might have been the mastermind behind the Great Work, who sent Jesus in the spirit of prophecy to his fate as much as the spirit of God did, or something like that. The "code" in The Last Suppor, is that it's really about BOTH a cross (the table in the room is a cross) and something beyond the cross involving a triumphant freedom, including the possibility of a marriage union (consumation) whereby in his painting, Mary's right arm is forcibly stretched out holding a knife (so that she can't slice the meat to initiate consumation of the meal), and her left hand isn't there at all, implying that it's behind her back, the guy to her right in effect holding her captive, while the group to the right are conspiring with him, with the exception of the elder man holding up his hands as if to say "i'll have nothing to do with it!". It's hilarious!

The contemplation of it concludes however with the consideration of a union and a consumation, which needn't be seen as mocking Jesus in any way, whereby the beholder is the Bride of the Spirit, and the V-space the space of Victory for one and all, including the disciples who don't understand what Jesus is doing or why he would leave them. Let us remember though that the first half of his life is filled with sorrow, unto the cross, his sacred heart encircled by a thorn of sorrow. Thus the heavenly domain of eternal bliss (capable of making room for saints who would later be killed for the sake of their abiding faith in him) might very well have been something that he still needed, with courage, to live into, on the other side of the cross, so that he could return to them and be with them, in him, "afterwards".

And let us not forget Saul's experience on the Road to Damascus, about another 35 years later (about 65-58 years after Jesus was born, which is about the natural lifespan of an old man back then).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Da Vinci had close ties with the Catholic Church at the time and was privy to many secret things. It is possible that he knew the truth and that's why he encoded it in his paintings.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Obvously, which is why I've included it, and it's even part of my avatar at present.

What's strange, to me, is the notion that daVinci, given these connections, might not have held Jesus in an ideal light. However that is not neccessarily the case, because of what I would call a final re-frame which does point back to Jesus' genius, courage, and transcendant love.

But daVinci plays on the conundrum of an apparent paradox to evoke the humor of understanding, but it ought or I should say need not be, misdirected, as you are so very anxious, to do..

As I've covered it, the John the Baptist painting may be considered an awesome and ingenious piece of work, which since he IS or was Jesus' forerunner and preparatory initiator (his baptism a foreshadowing of the work of the cross) says nothing derogatory about Jesus, only that John played his role with full self awareness, even the foreknowledge of his fate, with the light shining on his face and right arm, the light divine which also resurrects him with Jesus in their mutual triumph (where Jesus threaded the needle, along with a miraculous healing since he was beaten past the point of recognition in the lead-up to the cross).

John kissing the baby Jesus is something else that this threads hidden secrets can answer, but you'd rather take it way into left field to imply that the two were gay lovers.. and I would rather not say right now explicitely what it really means and signifies, but the answer is contained in this thread, already, which only further supports one aspect of the these running through this thread re: the sorrowful fated wedge of a divine calling, which from the beginning, since it comes from God, can choose that which is not (nice) to bring to naught things that are (bad).

The daVinci Code, if you want to call it that, can mean only one of two things - that he knew and loved Jesus Christ, or that he hated Jesus Christ.

If you'd like to add some value to this thread, then instead of all this unfound wilde speculation based on nothing but heresay - let's investigate daVinci's real relationship with the Catholic Church, to see if it's a love-love, a love-hate, or a hate-hate relationship, now that would be interesting, given what we've already brought to light and made known.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


So Da Vinci's interpretation can't be correlated with historical fact in my theory but it can in yours? How is that fair? I'm not even sure what your theory is at this point. From what I can tell it's a lot of words with no substance at this point. I think it would be for the greater good if you paraphrased what your theory is instead of keeping it a secret as you are now. I'm beginning to think that you believe you have made some grand connection in your own mind when in fact you haven't. If you have had this epiphany, it shouldn't be that hard to explain it in so many words, yet you refuse to do it. Hmmmm....

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Give me the benefit of the doubt and go through the thread which examines "The Last Supper", and no I do not know that it's historical fact that Jesus left town with Mary after he exited the tomb and hung around for a bit as often than not, in disguise. I've done a great deal more research into this however than a cursory speculation just throwing out there whatever suits my fancy, speculations I might add which will often reveal much more about the motivations of the person making them, than about the thing being speculated about..

The "secret" of the thread is in the title of the thread and my explanation of it, which has been repeated over and over again, but it, the realization WILL slip the mind of those who are not intended to see it and recognize it for what it is.

I'm still very interested in daVinci's actual relationship to the church and what his true feelings towards Jesus might have been.. that would tell a very large story in and of itself, and might help answer a LOT of questions about a lot of different things..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The daVinci Code, if you want to call it that, can mean only one of two things - that he knew and loved Jesus Christ, or that he hated Jesus Christ.

You left out a third option and that is that he didn't love or hate Christ but knew it was all a lie.

The irony is that you use him in your argument to say that there is a hidden message but you don't want that message to stray from the message of the bible.

The question would then be, why would he have needed to encrypt it if it was not something in complete opposition?

Something out in left field.