Iran stockpiling food? Why?

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

Lol, their navy consists of speedboats. Do you propose they are making nuclear powered speedboats?

Please. If you are going to engage in adult discussion/debate, at least read the article.

Here you go, so you don't have to use that silly mouse to click that link:

Nuclear submarine program surfaces in Iran

That was the title of the first link.

They don't need centrifuges for a medical reactor. They could make an agreement through the UN to have the material supplied to them, or simply skip making them and procure the medical isotopes directly. The UN would easily fall head over heels to give them all the isotopes they want for free in return for dismantling their centrifuges.

So no country should be able to make anything for themselves? Don't you think that is why the US is in the economic hole it finds itself in? Why exactly can't a country be self-reliant? Because it doesn't jive with your beliefs? What happens if the UN decides that they don't have any to spare for Iran, because they might make a "dirty bomb" out of it?

So not only do you want them to have nuclear weapons capability, you also want them to have nuclear powered submarines? What kind of "medical" reason could they have for having those? Nuclear powered submarines are the ultimate delivery system of nuclear weapons. Even a child could put those two and two together.

reply to post by TinfoilTP

So not only do you want them to have nuclear weapons capability,

I just don't like hypocrites, the pot (US) shouldn't, in my opinion, tell the kettle (Iran) that they shouldn't be pursuing this.

ou also want them to have nuclear powered submarines?

Sure why not?

What kind of "medical" reason could they have for having those?

Who said that? If you want to believe that, go right ahead. That was never my position, as I know submarines will not ever shrink down to go into your bloodstream.

Nuclear powered submarines are the ultimate delivery system of nuclear weapons. Even a child could put those two and two together.

Yes, unless the "child" hasn't heard about negative integers(other factors). Here let me help you learn:

A nuclear submarine is a submarine powered by a nuclear reactor (see also Nuclear marine propulsion). The performance advantages of nuclear submarines over "conventional" (typically diesel-electric) submarines are considerable: nuclear propulsion, being completely independent of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines; the large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long durations; and the long interval between refuellings grants a range limited only by consumables such as food.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by TinfoilTP

 

So not only do you want them to have nuclear weapons capability,

I just don't like hypocrites, the pot (US) shouldn't, in my opinion, tell the kettle (Iran) that they shouldn't be pursuing this.

ou also want them to have nuclear powered submarines?

Sure why not?

What kind of "medical" reason could they have for having those?

Who said that? If you want to believe that, go right ahead. That was never my position, as I know submarines will not ever shrink down to go into your bloodstream.

Nuclear powered submarines are the ultimate delivery system of nuclear weapons. Even a child could put those two and two together.

Yes, unless the "child" hasn't heard about negative integers(other factors). Here let me help you learn:

A nuclear submarine is a submarine powered by a nuclear reactor (see also Nuclear marine propulsion). The performance advantages of nuclear submarines over "conventional" (typically diesel-electric) submarines are considerable: nuclear propulsion, being completely independent of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines; the large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long durations; and the long interval between refuellings grants a range limited only by consumables such as food.

Your "position" is for proliferation.
The UN's position is for non proliferation.

Your posting the virtues of nuclear submarines proliferated zero learning on this end, you wasted your effort posting irrelevant copy paste data. Unless they develop stealth under the waves all that submarine tech would end up as expensive seabed decorations. They would be no match for US or Russian tech in that field and never will be. Complete waste of GDP which only translates into more starving Iranians.

reply to post by TinfoilTP

Your "position" is for proliferation.

Sure, if that's what you got out of my post. I can see there is no reason to keep arguing with you about this issue as you don't want to see it any other way.

Your posting the virtues of nuclear submarines proliferated zero learning on this end, you wasted your effort posting irrelevant copy paste data.

Again, not surprised that you couldn't see anymore than the tunnel you are looking through.

Unless they develop stealth under the waves all that submarine tech would end up as expensive seabed decorations.

The US has them as well, why? Although it is high startup cost, in the long run it will save money. Very simple.

They would be no match for US or Russian tech in that field and never will be.

Did I ever say they would be? Go back and read. I state, that they shouldn't be told that they can't develop them, unless, as a signatory of the NPT, it is proven that they are trying to build nuclear weapons. Again, proof. Not your MSM regurgitated conjecture.

Complete waste of GDP which only translates into more starving Iranians.

I agree. Oh yes, how is the US's economy and population fairing again?

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by maes9
reply to post by glasshouse

 

homosexuality is not and will never be practiced as a kind of marriage here in Iran. you can be glad that it is going to be considered as a marriage in some western countries. that it will lead their societies to even breaks down more.

Khomeini's letter to Gorbachev::

“Mr. Gorbachev!

It’s necessary to accept the truth; your country’s main problem is not possessorship, economy and freedom. Your problem is lack of real devote to God, the same as that led West to meanness or will lead. Your great problem is the long and useless struggle with God.”

Since you are from Iran and have internet access....what do you think would happen to you were you to speak out negatively towards the ruling regime?

it depends on what you mean by speaking against the ruling regime !
overthrowing is something and objection and complaining is something else. even if you speak about overthrowing they have not a good reason to punish you. but if one acts of overthrowing then what will happen is the same as when you act against the Capitalism or Communism systems !

Iranian government is also subsidizing the cost of chicken, said to be triple what it was just a few months ago.

I think that sanctions are starting to hurt, and that the Government is trying to keep their citizens from staging another "Arab Spring" type revolution.

Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by maes9
reply to post by glasshouse

 

homosexuality is not and will never be practiced as a kind of marriage here in Iran. you can be glad that it is going to be considered as a marriage in some western countries. that it will lead their societies to even breaks down more.

Khomeini's letter to Gorbachev::

“Mr. Gorbachev!

It’s necessary to accept the truth; your country’s main problem is not possessorship, economy and freedom. Your problem is lack of real devote to God, the same as that led West to meanness or will lead. Your great problem is the long and useless struggle with God.”

Since you are from Iran and have internet access....what do you think would happen to you were you to speak out negatively towards the ruling regime?

it depends on what you mean by speaking against the ruling regime !
overthrowing is something and objection and complaining is something else. even if you speak about overthrowing they have not a good reason to punish you. but if one acts of overthrowing then what will happen is the same as when you act against the Capitalism or Communism systems !

So say you do a copy of a peaceful Occupy Movement scenario, crowd the city centers protesting for the ruling Ayatollahs to step down? Would you or any of your buddies in the streets ever be heard from again?
I am willing to bet there would be a drastic difference in the way it was handled here in the US and over there in Iran.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Thank you for sharing. Your posts have been enlightening. It's really a shame how much the US media shovels out propaganda about the ME. I'm sorry for that.

I have some questions as I'm still trying to understand the Muslim view of Zionism.

What are Zions doing, how are they doing it, and what is their end game?

reply to post by sheepslayer247


www.economicvoice.com...

www.israelnewsagency.com...

The list goes on. Just because you are tonedeaf to evil does not mean it does not exist. Do you think that if America and Israel were as evil as you percieved, wouldn't they have already crushed Iran? No they have not, they have strived for peace by giving some evil people in this world time to regress from a provocative situation. Israel has arab/moslem members in their goverment. The U.S. is very diverse on their democracy. These other countries you basement dwellers praise, have no freedom for anyone BUT a hard-line moslem/islamic lifestyle.

reply to post by thecrippler


Maybe they figure the people won't have power for 3 months or so whenever Israel and the US knock out all their power stations because they think they are nuclear weapons plants?

Thousands of people would die if the Iranian government hadn't taken precautions before someone attacked them. I would actually just consider this Iran acting responsible for the welfare of it's population. Right?

reply to post by TheWorldToCome


Do you have anything other than a blog (of which the author has contributed a whopping 6 posts in 2 years) or a biased Israeli news agency?

I don't think anyone is saying that the Israeli gov't isn't afraid of a Nuclear Iran, but, where is the proof? You say that Israel and the US "have strived for peace by giving some evil people in this world time to regress from a provocative situation.", but, couldn't the same be said of Iran? Have they struck out at anyone over the sanctions that are supposedly crippling them? It all depends on how, and which side, you look at it.

If you prayed for angels to kill your enemies and they did, do you think your enemies would view them as angels, or as demons?

And remember boys and girls: The Department of Homeland Security said if you are stockpiling food you're a terrorist. So I guess everyone in Iran is terrorist?

reply to post by glasshouse


So if they really feel that way about all the jews.. then tell me why does Iran have such a large Jewish population living there?

You need to turn off Fox News. Also, by your own words, it would be pretty hard for them to do what you claim they intend without a nation of people supporting them.

reply to post by TheLegend


The objective for them is a Greater Israel, based on biblical text, as well as having the entirety of the middle east subdued, with themselves in control.

Currently, it involves working directly with the US and NATO, as well as controling the extremist groups to do their bidding as well within the middle east, in effort to break it up, so that controlling it, and extending their own borders, will be within their grasp. Divide and Conquer is the name of the game.

Right now, backroom deals between the extremist groups of the Middle East and US/Israeli powers, each thinking they can get what they want out of the other, and then have it the way they want in the end. (In My Opinion, this will backfire, for all parties involved)

But that is the ultimate goal. In support of this I offer an extensive article, with every quote linked, and sources availible for you to directly read via linking. While it was written by Muslims, you will find it a thing with confirmable sources at least. If you would like more such as this, for reading, I will find more for you.

A quote from the linked article:

When Pinhas Rozen, who became Israel's first Israeli Justice, demanded that Israel's Declaration of Independence should cite the COUNTRY'S BORDERS, Ben-Gurion objected, and both exchanged the following points:

ROZEN: "There's the question of the borders, and it CANNOT BE IGNORED."
BEN-GURION: "Anything is possible. If we decide here that there's to be no mention of borders, then we won't mention them. Nothing is a priori [imperative]."
ROZEN: "It's not a priori, but it is a legal issue."
BEN-GURION: "The law is whatever people determine it to be." (1949, The First Israelis, p. xviii)

Ben-Gurion clearly never believed in static borders, but dynamic ones as described in the Bible. He stated during a discussion with his aides:

"Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interests was self-defense. To a large extent, the creation of the state was an act of self-defense. . . . Many think that we're still at the same stage. But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defense. As for setting the borders--- it's an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in our history, there all kinds of definitions of the country's borders, so there's no real limit. Bo border is absolute. If it's a desert--- it could just as well be the other side. If it's sea, it could also be across the sea. The world has always been this way. Only the terms have changed. If they should find a way of reaching other stars, well then, perhaps the whole earth will no longer suffice." (1949, The First Israelis, p. 6)

read full article at this link:
www.palestineremembered.com...

you can also read this article, concerning some of the events currently going on in Syria from global research.ca:
www.globalresearch.ca...

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I am here anytime you need.

I post and/or answer questions not in effort to debate any points, but to give you more understanding of our own point of view, in effort that you understand where both sides are coming from and get a broader picture of the situation.

maybe they have some 2012 data which may be why other super powers are stockpiling as well. ARE THEY STOCKPILIN AS WELL (OTHER SUPER POWERS) WHY?

reply to post by thecrippler


I can't remember which thread it was that I said it, but a few months ago I made the comment that if Iran did this, it would make them pretty much untouchable. Which makes this the second time that they have followed my suggestions on ATS. (Ahmadinejad I now know you're watching me )

The thing with Iran, much like Germany prior to the start of the Second World War, is that they have everything that they need to survive the most stringent sanctions and still be war ready. Obviously three months of food is only going to serve them for, well, three months, theoretically though, with strict rationing and all hands on deck with home produce, it could be stretched out long enough for them to do real damage purely on the economic front.

Few countries have access to the breadth of resources that Iran do, not to mention the buying power. They are in an eviable position and if they were to withdraw themselves totally from the global economy, they would not be the ones to suffer. This is a very shrewd country and the other world powers, if they have even the remotest bit of sense, should be preparing to meet them at the table.

Now, if they suddenly start stockpiling steel too, I will be really watching my Ps and Qs

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Though I don't doubt that there are some groups within Israel that would want to do as those sources indicate, they are not in a powerful position. Israel, if it is not careful will be served up as the sacrificial lamb. Any major act of aggression from Israel that incites any aggression from elsewhere, is likely to find them out on a limb with nowhere and no-one to turn to. There may be some who think they have allies, but in all actuality, they have been led over recent years into a position of greater and greater isolation.

At the moment, both Israel and Iran are being pitted against each other, and really, I don't think that either nation wants that, but there are many whose purpose would be served by the mutual destruction of these two powers. Both need to be still and wait for the third party, and overall instigator, in all this to show their hand, and their true colours.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

So say you do a copy of a peaceful Occupy Movement scenario, crowd the city centers protesting for the ruling Ayatollahs to step down? Would you or any of your buddies in the streets ever be heard from again?
I am willing to bet there would be a drastic difference in the way it was handled here in the US and over there in Iran.

my friend we did this 30 years ago to overthrow the 3000 years old Inheritable kingdom and dictatorships at least I know that this can work well against kingdoms or dictatorships. the same that you can see in Egypt and other countries in mideast.
but about systems that have elections they see a right to defend themselves. but anyhow governments are weak without people.
problems here are different from there. because the system is young and hopeful. no one wants realy to overthrow but to move on revolution desires and improvement.
even here that one may think there is no Capitalism, big and rich corporations do not easily obey the official demands. this is the power of money. but still this issues are not that big that be the main problems which people demand.
we have problems about job or old, cumbersome and not efficient economical or other systems, but the nature is different. in other words in US economy used to be fresh and everything going on but now they are going towards problems it is like they are coming down from apex. but here the economy or other system have never been efficient so they still are struggling to climb the mountain and they are hopeful even with sanctions!
and I myself think that the main problem in this country is not sanctions but old not efficient systems. and young people complain that a country with such potentials deserves more.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
If I'm not mistaken, a much larger number of Jews lived in Pre WWII Germany. Thanks for the advice but I don't watch Fox News. Concerning national support, I don't think I would be the only one on this website to say that governments(mine included) are capable of manufacturing popular consent. Considering that institutionalized discrimination against non-Muslims seems to be the case, is it that far of a stretch to think that this is possible?

In case you missed these links relating to the Jewish community in Iran, here they are again:

This is just a small excerpt, check out the whole thing:

Given, moreover, the suspicion in which Jews are generally held because of actual or perceived connections to Israel, the level of intimidation, especially regarding anyone who could be thought to speak for the community in general is extreme. Iranian Jewish leaders in the United States who have been brave enough to speak out have repeatedly been threatened by Iranian agents that their life and the life of their loved ones are in danger because of their decision to speak out and that they should stay silent.

The threat of retaliation against the entire community is an ever present factor in the minds of Iranian Jews and all community leaders. The Islamic Republic reminds Iranian Jews of their uncertain fate and future from time to time in speeches that are delivered by the leaders of the regime.

On May 18, 2001, in a televised speech, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, directly attacked the Jews, calling Jews the enemies of the prophet Mohammad and threatened the Jews with expulsion and expropriation of their property, citing a similar action taken by the prophet Mohammad against the three Jewish tribes in Medina in which they were annihilated. This attack, placed in the context in which the Jews of Iran were still feeling shock of the Shiraz show trials reveals the true feelings of the Islamic Regime toward the Jews of Iran.

www.iranian.com...

Discrimination of Religious minorities in Iran:

Secondly, since Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians are only free to perform their religion “within the limits of the law”, the authorities have imposed in practice important limits to their right to exercise their religion, a right that is being continuously restricted and interfered with. Conversion from Islam to one of the three recognized religions (apostasy) may still be punishable by death. The government has been particularly vigilant in recent years in curbing proselytising activities by evangelical Christians, whose services are conducted in Persian. Moreover, all three minorities complain of discrimination in the field of employment, report clear limitations imposed upon their upward mobility and complain of being treated like “second-class citizens”.

Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians can only run for the specific seats allocated to these minorities by Article 64 of the Constitution: one seat for Zoroastrians, one seat for Jews, one seat for Assyrian and Chaldean Christians, one seat for Armenian Christians in the North and one seat for Armenian Christian in the South. However, these minorities are unable to play a role in mainstream politics.

Of particular concern is the status of religious minorities who are not able to freely exercise their religion, are treated like second-class citizens, and are being discriminated against both in law and in practice.

www.fidh.org...

After reading the content of these links, is there anything in there that you consider to be not factual?

reply to post by glasshouse


what I can say is that christians and jews are altogether less than one percent of population of Iran. it is natural that they have the least influence. what is unusual is that jews that are 1% of USA it seems that they have even large influence on there !
and about statements against jews I should search.