Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store

reply to post by Sablicious


Spin it however you want, but I refuse to be a sheep when there are wolves around. No thanks. You either allow people to defend themselves by whatever means necessary, or you simply lead them to slaughter. What time are you scheduled for your shearing? Baaaaaaaah, baaaaaaaaah.

yeah its a difficult issue. I have to think about it

Originally posted by Sablicious
I'm sure the Colorado and Columbine and Virgina Tech and (...) families are all real placated.

Sure, and they will become placated by taking away the right of everyone else to own and bear arms...

What about the surviving families of those who have been murdered by knives, or other objects?... should we ban all objects that can be used to murder someone to "placate the surviving families"?...

That's the stupidest excuse i have ever read or heard... But that's what gun-grabbers do, make up stupid excuses to impose their views on everyone...

reply to post by AntiNWO

I agree with everything you said, however there's a flaw in the above statement. If guns were illegal completely, then it's true, far less legally produced guns would get through to the black market, however it would open up an enormous underground weapons production and distribution market, and enough would get through to satisfy every criminal who wants them. Add to that the fact that 100% of those would end up in the hands of violent criminals, and in the end, it would change nothing except make it illegal to defend yourself against them. ETA: Not to mention that all of the criminals who want guns already have them. There is NO WAY you're going to get those guns turned in willingly. Again, only the law-abiding would turn them in, and that's only if there were no 2nd Amendment.

I am not actually in favour of gun control, I just see the validity of the gun control argument. I live in the UK which has gun control in place, and although there is gun crime here, it nearly always involves criminal on criminal incidents and to be fair if they kill each other I don't really care. But people here don't worry about gun crimes or being shot, the last thing on my mind when going shopping for example is someone may be carrying a gun and run amok, just never think about it at all because it doesn't really happen here, in this country you can get 5 - 10 years just for carrying a gun never mind waving it around or god forbid firing it at random.

You are right though American could not be easily disarmed, far to many guns in circulation and way to many illegal guns already, it would take years to clear them all up, decades even. As I said I am not really in favour of gun control, the problem is not guns themselves, it is a mix of guns and a quite violent species that causes the problem

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


What the hell are you talking about?

Ok, a senerio for all of you whom feel that a gun is just wrong to own because its bad.

Example:

Your in a supermarket with your wife/significant other/children....minding your own business and one of the following takes place,


A) A lunatic whips out a knife and goes isle for isle slashing people.
B) A armed robber plugs a clerk and decides to add to the toll in his bid for an escape, or takes hostages in his bid for an escape.
C) Pervie the Pervert (also known as Paul Reubens) decides to disrobe and force himself onto another woman in the market.
D) you get robbed at knife point or see someone being robbed at knife point in the parking lot.


You do not have a gun and the police are still at least 5 minutes out from responding (assuming they have been called yet)

What do you do? How do you protect your loved ones and an innocent public?


Lets add something here shall we?

You went through the CCP course and were instructed on how to operate a firearm safely. You are currently carrying your firearm concealed. You are now back into one of those previous encounters....

Now what do you do? Still gonna wait for the cops while people get hurt for no good reason?

Its ok if you do, I understand...and if that is your reasoning, then i will be sure to snap photos of you being left on the side of the road while being mauled by a bear.....Or I could shoot the bear....what do you think?

Unless its happening to you, I don't expect any antigun people to do anything, but die defenceless.

The story is a few months old, but still valid nonetheless. I think its a great example of how an armed citizenry can limit the damage that these lone nuts can do and also shows that, contrary to the gun grabbers' argument, the concealed carry people generally aren't complete friggin' idiots who would start firing indiscriminately at the perpetrator. The fact is that gun owners typically know that they're responsible for every single bullet that they fire from that weapon, even at the target range, and are generally going to show some discretion before pulling the trigger.

Originally posted by vor78
The story is a few months old, but still valid nonetheless. I think its a great example of how an armed citizenry can limit the damage that these lone nuts can do and also shows that, contrary to the gun grabbers' argument, the concealed carry people generally aren't complete friggin' idiots who would start firing indiscriminately at the perpetrator. The fact is that gun owners typically know that they're responsible for every single bullet that they fire from that weapon, even at the target range, and are generally going to show some discretion before pulling the trigger.

Could not have said it better myself.......this is exactly correct in every form. One of the first things they teach in those classes is liability.

Thank you for sharing this article! I wish there was more MSM coverage of heroes and less of criminals, such a travesty.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
But I'm sure hit like 30 innocent people and other gun nuts started firing in random directions when they heard his shots and every child within 50 miles was immediately sent to an eternity of suffering in the ninth circle of hell.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

You can't be this stupid or that against guns!
Call me when someone breaks into your home so I can laugh at you for not having a gun to defend yourseld.
Oh and I will not attend your funeral!

All I will say is that it's a good thing this guy shot the serial Knife stabber or more people would've been stabbed.

reply to post by WereWolfWoody


The gentlemen did NOT shoot the man with the knife!!! This is why this is the perfect situation. No one was shot, no one was killed. The simple PRESENTATION of a gun stopped this act in it's tracks, keeping probably numerous other people from being seriously injured.

reply to post by clayb2004


He should've shot him but now instead of a serial stabbist being dead for killing people now taxpayers get to pay his rent in jail.

Should've died, but All life is precious, right?

Wrong!

reply to post by WereWolfWoody


Given that this guy was unquestionably crazy and committed a horrendous act, taking a life isn't that easy. The gentlemen that stopped this would most likely think of what he did for the rest of his life. Given that he was a reasonable human being, with the normal emotions, it would eat at him forever whether or not he did the right thing or could've handled the situation differently.

I've done 2 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghan, it's not as easy as saying "choot 'em". I've seen things I wished I wouldn't have seen and I have multiple friends with PTSD and who still have nightmares over the things that they've done, even though they were perfectly justified with their use of force.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Sek82

Originally posted by blupblup
how many people do you think his "stabbing spree" would have killed compared to say, a gun?

That depends on a whole bunch of variables, but the recent shooting spree in Colorado only killed 12 of a total of what, 70 wounded individuals?

Yeah, this is a pro gun thread about a story that isn't new and I like it. S&F.

So exactly.... One person stabbed with knife.... 70+ shot with gun and 12 killed.

That is my point

Nobody with a knife could get even close to that number.... they would be stopped.

They would? Not necessarily. Plenty of mass stabbings in history:

Osaka school massacre
Akihabara massacre
Nine stabbed at Dublin Festival
Stabbing Spree in Columbus Ohio
Six dead in Mass Stabbing in Jersey, England

And so forth and so on...

THe bottom line is that, if people are either unable or unwilling to stop a killer, be he using knife, sword, or gun, many many people will get killed. A firearm is a tool. It can enable a 100lb housewife to be able to stop a knife weilding madman in the grocery store. WIth one she needed hope that there is some big biker dude around the corner, assuming he is willing to risk injury to himself, waiting to punch the guy. WIth one she does not need to hope that a bunch of people swarm the knife wielder with at least one of those people likely getting a fatal wound in the process (that is how a swarm would work--one guy gets stabbed while the rest subdue the stabber if they all jump at the same time.) No, with a firearm, she can stop that criminal right there, right then,

Quoted from The Telegraph
" Under British law a folding blade that locks is classed as a fixed blade and as such any length locking blade would be illegal without a food reason, no matter how small.

For burglaries and robberies England and Wales had more crimes per 100,000 people than the USA.
England and Wales was ranked sixth for burglaries – worse than Sweden, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Turkey, Italy and Chile - and for robberies, England and Wales was seventh.
For rapes, England and Wales was ranked ninth, worse than the likes of Norway, Poland, Sweden, Australia and Germany, while for car thefts, England and Wales was eighth – worse than Slovenia, Chile, Mexico, Greece and the Czech Republic."

"The figures, from the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, draw together crimes recorded by police in the countries studied and is published every six years. Nearly half of all offenders sent to prison are reconvicted within a year of release, creating a revolving door of crime. Among two other measures, England and Wales fared better, being ranked 16th out of 35 countries for “intentional homicides” and 19th for major assaults "

I wonder how long it takes a bobby to reach a distress call? Would you say at least three minutes? Good luck to all of you Welsh and Brits. If your a woman and being molested you are a day late and a dollar short. You can't carry a gun and you cannot carry a knife. In fact you can't carry any sharp object that could be used in self defense. Not even a three inch pocket knife.

Capital punishment has been abolished in England, Scotland and Wales and then they turn the dirty buggers loose on the public. An average rapist serves eight years in English law.

Quoted from BBC News
" People admitting serious offences at the first opportunity could be entitled to a 33% cut in their minimum sentence.
MINIMUM MURDER SENTENCES
Confessing at earliest opportunity - 10 years
Pleading guilty at trial - 11 years and three months
Changing plea to guilty - 13 years and six months
Maintaining innocence - 15 years
A murder victim's family speaks out
The guidelines recognise the need to spare victims and witnesses the trauma of going to court where possible, by allowing lighter sentences for guilty pleas and co-operation.
Offenders who maintained their innocence until their trial but then pleaded guilty would be entitled to a one-quarter reduction in the minimum sentence they must serve.
Those who changed their plea to guilty after their trial had begun would be entitled to a one-tenth reduction. "

So you now understand how simple it is to kill a guy in England, Scotland and Wales. Just knock him or her off and then beat it down to the police station and confess. You get about the same a rapist. Now figure it all out for yourself. Americans run all over the country with guns and the Brits have no guns and seems like they have about the same or more crime than we have. I don't know the penalty for a Brit to carry a pocket knife. Maybe clubs or rocks will be next.