The Beast of Revelation 17 and how it effects us today.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Jesus was promised by God the Father from the time when Abraham offered Isaac on what was later to be the Temple Mount . People were saved before the Promise by their seaking and rightiousness to God . Then people were saved by their faith in that promise to come . Being that we have not seen Jesus we are also saved by faith . Jesus made a point to pray to the Father . He also said he waas not our Master that our Master was in heaven and none was holy but our Father that is in heaven . Now Jesus is at the right hand of the Father .

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

No you cant have it both ways because master and the servant are 2 seperate entities... as is the "creator and the creation . One is always higher than the other.

This is basic common sense... it doesn't need to be discarded while discussing the bible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Isaiah
“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. "
That should be your first clue that there is just one God and no other. That was God speaking directly about Himself.... not Jesus.

2. Philipians
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

When Jesus was in his human form, he was in a state of humiliation. He took on the humility and humbleness of a servant to come here and save us, which was the whole point of him washing the disciples feet before his crucifixtion. He wasn't serving the Father, he was serving us and that was the lesson of the washing of their feet.

Before he came here he was equal with God the Father, having his Glory on his throne. When Jesus ascended he was given back the name he formerly had, which is Yahweh the name above all names.

Philipians 2:1-11

Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

The Humbled and Exalted Christ
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Before Yahweh came here, he emptied himself out of his own Glory so that he could walk amoung men and be the Savior we needed. He had to sacrifice his Lamb body. Blood for blood, only blood can bring atonement sacrificing an innocent creature in place of the guilty was how this occured, as was prophecied of by the Exodus 12 Passover in Egypt and in Genesis 22 where Abraham was to sacrifice his son Isaac, even making Isaac carry the wood for his own sacrifice mirroring Jesus carrying the wood on which he would be sacrificed at Golgotha. Isaac ask Abraham "where is the sacrifice?" and Abraham replied "God will provide a sacrifice of his own", this was prophecy of the same event Exodus 12 depicted.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Two claim to be Savior, Jesus is not a liar, neither is Father a liar, so they must both be the Savior.

I know God directly said "I am God, and there is no other."

When exactly did Jesus directly say "I am God, and there is no other"?

You know he didn't. And you are just stitching verses from everywhere to make your case that Jesus is God.

edit on 28-7-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-7-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

If this has been posted please forgive me.

One of the most powerful statements spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ is recorded in John 8:58. He said: “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I AM.” When He said that He existed before Abraham was born, Jesus proclaimed He is the Eternal God. Not only that, He also applied God’s holy name ‘I AM’ to Himself.

God reveals His essence and character through His Divine Name “I AM WHO I AM” in Hebrew YHWH is YAHWEH (Ex. 3:13-15). 1. God is unique - YAHWEH exists by Himself. “And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.” (Isa. 45:21) 2. God is eternal - He exists all the time. “This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.” (Ex. 3:15) 3. God manifested Himself in the flesh and shares the same name ‘I AM’ – YAH with His Son Jesus Christ, (Isa. 12:2; Jn. 5:43; 8:58).

source

Thanks,
pax

When Jesus ascended he was given back the name he formerly had, which is Yahweh the name above all names.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

What was mostly used by people reading the Old Testament back then
was the Greek Septuagint version which inserts the word Lord
where the Hebrew version has YHWH.
I believe that both are honorary titles.
When Jesus said "I Am" he was claiming the same honor,
as the designated representative of God on Earth.
As quoted in the post directly above, he was given the name above all others, which is Lord.
In the Christian era with its New Testament written in Greek, Lord, when referring to Jesus,
should be taken as lifting him up to the same level as that one before him
who was described in the OT as representing God
all the way back to the Garden of Eden.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

When Jesus was in his human form, he was in a state of humiliation. He took on the humility and humbleness of a servant to come here and save us,

Jesus was always in his human form.
If he was divine, then the angel who gave the news to Mary would have told Mary that she is about to give birth to God who took on human form.

Before Yahweh came here, he emptied himself out of his own Glory so that he could walk amoung men and be the Savior we needed. He had to sacrifice his Lamb body.

Can you give me one quote from Jesus that he is indeed Yahweh, who took on human form?

And please dont quote from Paul.
You see, I don't quote from the Koran because I know you dont accept it. I however, accept Jesus' words in the bible, and I'm sure you accept Jesus words in the bible as well. So lets just stick by Jesus' words and leave Paul out of this.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

When Jesus ascended he was given back the name he formerly had, which is Yahweh the name above all names.

It does not say he was given the name "back". He was given the name, Lord, as you point out, being described by Paul in Philippians.
The person who gave the "I Am" statement in the Old Testament story of Moses was describing an un-created existent one, a saying that eventually was made into a sort of personal name for God, which was exactly what the angel talking to Moses was trying to avoid.
Jesus is Lord of the Cosmos, having earned the title by inquiring the secret to eternal life. (see: Lord of the Cosmos: Mithras, Paul, and the Gospel of Mark, Michael Patella, page 53) Of course that involved his first dying.

Jeremiah tells you exactly who the everlasting King is, the Messiah, King of the nations.

Jeremiah 10:2-10

2 Thus says the Lord:

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
5 They are upright, like a palm tree,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot go by themselves.
Do not be afraid of them,
For they cannot do evil,
Nor can they do any good.”

6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord
(You are great, and Your name is great in might),
7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations?
For this is Your rightful due.
For among all the wise men of the nations,
And in all their kingdoms,
There is none like You.
8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish;
A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine.
9 Silver is beaten into plates;
It is brought from Tarshish,
And gold from Uphaz,
The work of the craftsman
And of the hands of the metalsmith;
Blue and purple are their clothing;
They are all the work of skillful men.
10 But the Lord is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.
At His wrath the earth will tremble,
And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.

2 Peter 10-11

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Peter confirming the everlasting King Jesus Messiah, the Savior.

Isaiah 43:1-3

But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I gave Egypt for your ransom,
Ethiopia and Seba in your place.

John 10:31-33

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

The jews knew who the Good Shepherd was whom Jesus was claiming to be, he claimed to be the owner of the sheep not some hireling and thats why they wanted to stone him im John 10.

John 8:56-58

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Here again Jesus saying he existed before Abraham. "I AM" is the name God gave Moses when he first met him as the burning bush.

Jesus is worshipped:

Matthew
2:11
8:2
9:18
15:25
28:9
28:17

John
9:38
20:28

If Jesus was worshipped and not God then it would have been idolatry.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.


Even the prophets say who he is. I wish i could help your unbelief, but these are scriptures not from Paul as you asked. Jesus was worshipped like he was God, even back then, and still to this day.

AskDrBrown

Dr. Michael Brown is a jewish christian preacher, he knows alot about this stuff. Give him a shout about questions you have concerning these things. From the mouth of a jew who knows.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus was always in his human form.

Right, if you want to just ignore the New Testament.

If he was divine, then the angel who gave the news to Mary would have told Mary that she is about to give birth to God who took on human form.

He pretty much did, unless you read a little too quickly over that part.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

When Jesus ascended he was given back the name he formerly had, which is Yahweh the name above all names.

It does not say he was given the name "back". He was given the name, Lord, as you point out, being described by Paul in Philippians.
The person who gave the "I Am" statement in the Old Testament story of Moses was describing an un-created existent one, a saying that eventually was made into a sort of personal name for God, which was exactly what the angel talking to Moses was trying to avoid.
Jesus is Lord of the Cosmos, having earned the title by inquiring the secret to eternal life. (see: Lord of the Cosmos: Mithras, Paul, and the Gospel of Mark, Michael Patella, page 53) Of course that involved his first dying.

edit on 22-8-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

But "Lord" isn't a name it's a title.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus was always in his human form.
If he was divine..

I however, accept Jesus' words in the bible

how do you plan on not believing Jesus' words when He spoke to Paul invisibly from eternity as in Divinely? -a thing I know to be a fact

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 12

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy

reply to post by jmdewey60


sk0rpion : If he was divine, then the angel who gave the news to Mary would have told Mary that she is about to give birth to God who took on human form.

He pretty much did, unless you read a little too quickly over that part.

What do you mean by "pretty much did"?



26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.



The angel says that Mary has found favor with Go..d. and the son who Mary is to give birth is to be named Jesus. There is nothing about Jesus being God.

Jesus spoke quite a lot in the bible, and nowhere did he ever teach that he is actually the God who the Israelites have been praying to. The idea that Jesus was actually God who took on a human form is a myth propagated by certain Christians... it has no biblical basis.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

What do you mean by "pretty much did"?

There are two different versions of the announcement story in the Gospels, one in Matthew, and one in Luke. You seem to be looking at just one of them.
Luke 2:11 Today your Savior is born in the city of David. He is Christ the Lord.
One you listed in your post seems to not take on any special significance to you but should.
Luke 1:32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.
Luke 1:35b Therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God.
Matthew 1:21-23 She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” This all happened so that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet would be fulfilled: “Look! The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him Emmanuel,” which means “God with us.”
"Almighty God" is connected by looking at the Old Testament prophecy the angel is quoting.
Isaiah 9:6 For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us. He shoulders responsibility and is called: Extraordinary Strategist, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

it has no biblical basis.

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zechariah 3

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet
Psalm8

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel7

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Corinthians10

Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Daniel2

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians4

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby
Ephesians2

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2

I and my Father are one.
John10

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Colossians 3

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
Hey! What a surprise. Yet another "Islam is evil and of Satan. See, my interpretation of the Bible say so" post from Lonewolf.

I am totally and utterly shocked. How soon before you go into your lies about "Allah is a pagan moon god" and "taqiyya means that Muslims can lie in order to take over the world" that have debunked ad infinitum?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You are here for a reason. There is no doubt. God works in the hearts of the elect.

edit on 26-7-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I have felt the same assurance in my spirit about CoolerAbdullah, as well, brother. (And I always say "Coolah Abdullah" or "Cooler Abduller" in my head when I see his user name...lol....I know, I'm a total dork....)

Anyway, I felt that even before I had "met" him and shared conversations with him behind these threads. I consider him my friend, despite the differences in our religion. I have no quarrel with him, I have only a still small voice that reminds me that God is patient as He works in the minds and hearts of the elect. Thus we are to be patient.
He desires our mercy and grace, as He gives us His in abundance.
I do believe that CoolerAbullah is capable of perceiving the Truth, it is just a matter of him working it out in God's perfect timing.

reply to post by stupid girl


It's hard not to run to the voice you recognize as a friend.

The Revelation was written against Jesus-YESHUA

666= XXX= +++= FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT= HOLY TRINITY = JESUS

Rev 17 , 10 KINGS = X in Roman numerals, means the mark = + = JESUS

Revelations 17.8 THE BEAST WAS ONCE ALIVE, AND NO LONGER LIVES.
MEANS, Jesus was once alive and was sent to hell.

reply to post by dave13


That's some seriously twisted stuff. Got any more proof or arguments for that case?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


INFINITY



- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus. FRIDAY 13TH is JESUS
12 APOSTLES, THE 13TH WAS JESUS

- 666 = XXX = +++ = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT =HOLY TRINITY = JESUS
- 666 = Friday the 6th day of the week, THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
666 = 6 FOOT UNDER
666 = There are 6 weeks of lent prior to EASTER
666 = 6th letter of the aplhabet is F = FRIDAY = Friday 13th = JESUS
666 = Revelations ,The Father- 6th Seal
Son - 6th Trumpet
Holy spirit- 6th Bowl
666= Revelation 13.5 "The beast was allowed to make proud claims which were insulting to God
and it was permitted to have authority for Forty two months" = 42 months = 3.5 years,
Jesus started to preach at the age of 30 and was crucified at the age of 33 and half years
= 3.5 years = 42 months

666= The second book of Esdras , the Fifth Vision of the EAGLE-
Most scholars date the the Eagle Vision during 69- 96 AD.
" the second night Ihad a dream. I saw an eagle coming up out of the sea.
It had twelve wings and three heads. All three heads was a sleep,
even the middle one, which was larger then the other two"
= EAGLE = JESUS AS SATAN



666= Revelation 13.2 " the beast looked like leopard, with feet like a bears feet
and a mouth like a lions mouth"
In Heraldry the beast is used as a symbol of victory over the beast, who is JESUS.
Flag of England and many other Countries use the symbol of the beast,
while everyone thinks it's Lion.
Also in Heraldry the symbol of a castle with 3 towers also means 666.
In fact nearly all of symbols used in Heraldry is based on the revelation and used as a
symbol of defeat against Satan who is JESUS.

Once again I will mention that SATAN in Hebrew means OPPONENT,
Jesus was SATAN, the opponent to the leaders that crucified him,
and they are the leaders who wrote the Revelation's against him.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


infinity


TROPHY

In the times of Ancient Greeece and Rome it was regarded as a structure consisting of the captured ARMS, FLAGS or other spoils of a DEFEAT ENEMY, hung on a tree, or pillar, of the field of balltle or elsewhere as a memorial of VICTORY- THIS PRACTICE IS STILL BEING PRACTICED TODAY-

Reason the symbols in the Revelation, helraldry, FLAGS and numbers represent the VICTORY over JESUS.