The Beast of Revelation 17 and how it effects us today.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Does your god have trouble with math? "The 7th is also the 8th and of the seven..."

7 =/= 8.

And furthermore, 7 does not have room for an 8th.

What kind of math is this?

edit on 27-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

You need biblical knowledge and you have none. This has nothing to do with math

.

They say math is the language of logic. This needs no math, so this needs no logic. It'll still use numbers, but the laws of math don't apply. You just have to believe and it will come true. That clears THAT up...

Pfft.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Then why do Muslim say Jesus is not the messiah, that he will not be Messiah until he returns hm? I've had many a muslim dispute what you are saying.

Muslims know that Jesus is THE messiah. They know he arrived as messiah.

Here we see worshipping, praying, touching the Black Stone meteorite for forgiveness of sins (Idolatry).

Can I post pictures of christians with crosses on their necks or with statues of the crucified Jesus in their homes? Why are roman torture instruments on the top of churches?

Can I claim that christians worship a Roman torture instrument

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Judaism and christianity had already been established in Kedar by 450 A.D., so it's not Muhammad it is Jesus that Isaiah 42 speaks of.

"so it's not Muhammad it is Jesus that Isaiah 42 speaks of."


You believe Jesus was God himself. But Isaiah 42 addresses a certain "servant"
Jesus cant be both Gods servant AND God, right?

Jesus had never set foot in "Kedar and the wilderness"...and he never operated outside the regions of the hebrews. So Jesus is NOT part of Isaiah 42.

Judaism and christianity had already been established in Kedar by 450 A.D.,

Probably. But Judaism and christianity merely co-existed with the pagan polytheistic idol worshippers.

Even then the jews and christians did nothing to rid Arabia of idolatry. It was only after Mohammads arrival 500 years later....that the idol worshippers were run out of town.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Then why do Muslim say Jesus is not the messiah, that he will not be Messiah until he returns hm? I've had many a muslim dispute what you are saying.

Muslims know that Jesus is THE messiah. They know he arrived as messiah.

Here we see worshipping, praying, touching the Black Stone meteorite for forgiveness of sins (Idolatry).

Can I post pictures of christians with crosses on their necks or with statues of the crucified Jesus in their homes? Why are roman torture instruments on the top of churches?

Can I claim that christians worship a Roman torture instrument

edit on 27-7-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

We don't worship crosses. People who wear pendants do it for evangelical reasons to show who they believe in, to show they are not ashamed for people to know who they believe in.

I can't speak for other people but, i don't have any Jesus statues in my home, or pictures. I do have an engraved copy of the 10 commandments, and various engraved copies of scripture hanging on my walls for people to read when they come to visit like John 3:16 to inspire hope, but that's it.

So no you can't claim we worship a roman torture instrument, because we do not the cross. The cross does not forgive sins, touching it, kissing it and walking around it 7 times is pointless. It's just a reminder of Christ's sacrifice to redeem mankind and that is it's only function. The Catholic crosses i find offensive and abhorent to look at because they depict him still hanging on the cross being tormented and if i had my way i'd destroy them.

Lets do the math .Explain to me how life began on earth other than by creation . With the discovery of DNA and that every living thing has it along with the fact that DNA does not occur randomly under any circumstance . Then when earth formed in the inhospitable reaches of space it was sterile as the space around it . Then radiation and temperature extremes and no oxygen . Life didn't come from any place in outer space and survive the trip .
If a theory of life being spontaneously initiated on earth could be proven to be possible it would have been done by a real scientist . Abiogenesis was a failed attempt as a possibility for the same reasons .So the theory of evolution from a single celled Amoeba is not possible . And with the discovery of DNA has ceased to be tenable . So the other more likely theory is that of creation and might very soon be proven right .. reply to post by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Does your god have trouble with math? "The 7th is also the 8th and of the seven..."

7 =/= 8.

And furthermore, 7 does not have room for an 8th.

What kind of math is this?

edit on 27-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

The 7th Empire to deal with Israel died out and the same is being revived almost a century later.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Then why do Muslim say Jesus is not the messiah, that he will not be Messiah until he returns hm? I've had many a muslim dispute what you are saying.

Muslims know that Jesus is THE messiah. They know he arrived as messiah.

Here we see worshipping, praying, touching the Black Stone meteorite for forgiveness of sins (Idolatry).

Can I post pictures of christians with crosses on their necks or with statues of the crucified Jesus in their homes? Why are roman torture instruments on the top of churches?

Can I claim that christians worship a Roman torture instrument

edit on 27-7-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Christians do not stop everything and bow 5 times per day to a cross to offer prayers towards it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Am I to believe that the Muslims believe that Jesus Christ the Son of God is their Messiah , Lord and Savior ?????????????????????????????? I don't think so !

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Am I to believe that the Muslims believe that Jesus Christ the Son of God is their Messiah , Lord and Savior ?????????????????????????????? I don't think so !

Nope. And furthermore if you look at their Isa and compare him with Christian Eschatology he aligns up with the antichrist.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
Lets do the math .Explain to me how life began on earth other than by creation . With the discovery of DNA and that every living thing has it along with the fact that DNA does not occur randomly under any circumstance . Then when earth formed in the inhospitable reaches of space it was sterile as the space around it . Then radiation and temperature extremes and no oxygen . Life didn't come from any place in outer space and survive the trip .
If a theory of life being spontaneously initiated on earth could be proven to be possible it would have been done by a real scientist . Abiogenesis was a failed attempt as a possibility for the same reasons .So the theory of evolution from a single celled Amoeba is not possible . And with the discovery of DNA has ceased to be tenable . So the other more likely theory is that of creation and might very soon be proven right .. reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just take a look around at all the hundreds of millions of different species of creatures, both land based and aquatic. The millions of different plants and trees, and all of that came from a fluke? No way. A fluke might produce an ameoba but a fluke isn't going to produce anything like what we have now, without sufficient exchange of genetic material life could not have evolved at all.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Am I to believe that the Muslims believe that Jesus Christ the Son of God is their Messiah , Lord and Savior ?????????????????????????????? I don't think so !

No you dont have to believe that muslims believe Jesus Christ is the messiah. Not at all.

*shrugs*

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

We don't worship crosses. People who wear pendants do it for evangelical reasons to show who they believe in, to show they are not ashamed for people to know who they believe in.

When a christian wears a cross its to "show who they believe in".
Yet when muslims use muslim symbols for the same purpose of displaying identity, you think they are moon god worshippers?

So no you can't claim we worship a roman torture instrument, because we do not the cross. The cross does not forgive sins, touching it, kissing it and walking around it 7 times is pointless. It's just a reminder of Christ's sacrifice to redeem mankind and that is it's only function. The Catholic crosses i find offensive and abhorent to look at because they depict him still hanging on the cross being tormented and if i had my way i'd destroy them.

Im sure you have your reasons as to why you dont worship a roman torture instrument.
Im sure the muslims also have several valid reasons as to why they dont worship any inanimate objects... as you claimed earlier.

www.youtube.com...
summary : "no muslim worship the kaaba, we worship Allah. Kaaba is the direction in which we pray."

As for the touching and kissing it... its not islamic law, but the acts of certain people who are trying to emulate Mohammad. No harm in that.

You speak as if christians dont have any relics or objects that you consider sacred.
Take for example, the ark of the covenant... do you believe the people worshipped the ark?

Or consider the iconic tablets of the 10 commandments which you say you have in your room. Im sure you wouldn't use it as a a coaster and leave a beer on it. Im also sure you wouldn't use a cross as a coat rack.

You show reverence to an inanimate object because they are symbols of what you believe in. It does not mean you worship it. The same goes for the muslims as well. They show reverance to an inanimate object, but that does not mean they worship it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Isaiah speaks exclusively about Jesus.

Isaiah speaks of more than one servant in his book.
Isaiah 42 is about a certain "servant of God".

Now, you cant have it both ways....Jesus cant be both a "servant of God" and God at the same time, as you believe.

Muhammad wasn't converting pagans he was converting christians and jews and killing the ones who refused.

Mohammads military victory against the Quraysh who controlled the idols is a fulfillment of the prophecy of the idolaters defeat and shaming. Idolatry in that region went extinct, never to rise again after Mohammads arrival... and the worship of the God of Abraham was established.

The Beast of Revelation has been reigning in our Midst for a long time and billions of people around the world already worship it.However, like the Bible states,only those who have eyes to see and ears to hear would recognize it(Prov 28:5,Dan 12:10,Matt 24:39):truth.co.vu...

reply to post by inthention

The Beast of Revelation has been reigning in our Midst for a long time and billions of people around the world already worship it.However, like the Bible states,only those who have eyes to see and ears to hear would recognize it(Prov 28:5,Dan 12:10,Matt 24:39)

Welcome to ATS.

Who do you see as the beast "reigning in our midst".

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Now, you cant have it both ways....Jesus cant be both a "servant of God" and God at the same time, as you believe.

Please explain. Yes please make us all aware of what God can not do.

Also you have not addressed the issue of Sargon.

One of the abomination of desolations is the Dome of the Rock, set up in 688 AD. Jews are blessed to reach the 1335th day (Dan 12:12). 688 plus 1335 years (day for a year) is 2023.

Mahdi rules for 7 years, thus from 2016 through 2023.

Jesus Christ returns sometime between Sept. 2015 and Sept 2016, As per Islamic hadith, Mahdi offers that Jesus lead the prayers (rule the world), but Jesus defers His rightful reign to Mahdi. Mahdi is the Assyrian, but is not the antichrist, the Jewish messiah king. Mahdi exists so as to scourge the Jews for not accepting Jesus (who has just returned to perform the pre-tribulation rapture gathering). In fact, Mahdi is scourging the Jews because... well let's back up a bit.

The end of 2012 is where we get the "evil last pope" (who also serves as a decoy dajjal/ mahdi) who is "trying to take over the world". The Jews stand firm against this supernatural/ extraterrestrial being and Prince William (the Jewish King messiah/ Christian antichrist) defeats this "evil pope" who will call himself god in a temple. This evil pope smears Christianity and causes the "falling away" mentioned by Paul in 2 Thess 2. People will despise Christians because of the Pope and make "Judaism" the "good" religion. In 2013 Prince William will confirm a 7 year covenant and be a prophet and oversee the reconstruction of the 3rd Temple.

After a 3.5 year stint as a prophet, he will call himself God in the 3rd Temple in 2016 (breaking the 7 year covenant from 2013 thru 2020 in the middle of the week, 2016. And people will indeed worship him. (Obama care/ health care is designed to implement the mark of the beast microchip, getting people used to the implant. It will not technically be the mark until 2016 when Prince William calls himself God in the Temple.)

And this action is the start of the 7 year Tribulation period. Seal 1 is the antichrist calling himself God in the 3rd Temple in 2016.

Mahdi is the punishment upon people who worship the beast. Dajjal is the imitation Mahdi. Dajjal is Illuminati Freemasonry - because Mahdi is Zerubabbel from Zechariah 4

Zechariah 4
King James Version (KJV)

4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?

5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.

7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

8 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Mahdi is the Islamic understanding of Zerubbabel, a Persian/ Iranian governor that served God by building a temple for the Jews, - Mahdi is an end times Zerubbabel. Zerubabel's temple was built out of the rubble of Solomon's temple - (apostate Jews under the (accursed) hexagram/ seal of Solomon [modern Jews are mistaken about Israel and its flag – it’s not the star of David] will rebuild Solomon’s temple when their King Messiah (the Christian antichrist) takes power).

Also notice the references to “plummet” (a plumb line in masonic terms) and the “headstone” (equivalent to the capstone of a pyramid)… Illuminati Freemasonry is an imitation of Mahdi/ Zerubabbel. Dajjal, the imitation Mahdi, thusly is an Illuminati Freemason. Check out the Israeli Supreme Court building which is comprised of a compass, right angled ruler, and plumb line/ plummet , among other things… rense.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Now, you cant have it both ways....Jesus cant be both a "servant of God" and God at the same time, as you believe.

Yes I can have it both ways, because God himself says so.

Isaiah 43 who are the people called by His name? The name of the Redeemer?

Isaiah 45:22-23

22 “Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.

Philipians 2:9-11

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God gave Jesus the name that is above every name after he ascended. There's only one name above all names and that is Yahweh. Isaiah 42:23 says explicitly that to ME (Yahweh) every knee shall bow and every tongue take an Oath. In Philipians 2:10 that name Is Jesus. Now you know who Yahweh is.

Daniel 7 gives a description of the Ancient of Days, Revelation 1 Jesus shows up looking like the Ancient of Days. So why do you keep denying whats in front of your face? Two claim to be Savior, Jesus is not a liar, neither is Father a liar, so they must both be the Savior. In order for them both to be Savior, they both have to be God.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Yes I can have it both ways, because God himself says so.

No you cant have it both ways because master and the servant are 2 seperate entities... as is the "creator and the creation . One is always higher than the other.

This is basic common sense... it doesn't need to be discarded while discussing the bible.

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1. Isaiah
“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. "
That should be your first clue that there is just one God and no other. That was God speaking directly about Himself.... not Jesus.

2. Philipians
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

ex·alt (g-zôlt)
tr.v. ex·alt·ed, ex·alt·ing, ex·alts
1. To raise in rank, character, or status; elevate: exalted the shepherd to the rank of grand vizier.
2. To glorify, praise, or honor.
3. To increase the effect or intensity of; heighten: works of art that exalt the imagination.
www.thefreedictionary.com...

Jesus was exalted BY God... i.e - raised in rank or glorified from a previously lower position. This means Jesus was not always in a position of exaltation.... but God who was always supreme exalted Jesus. So Jesus is clearly below God. They are not one and the same.

3.Ancient of days
The "ancient of days" was originally a hebrew concept that referred to God and NOT the messiah.
So why do christians take jewish concepts and twist it to change its meaning?

Even then... among christians, there is a dispute among christians as to who the term "ancient of days" actually refers to.
Some like you believe its Jesus, some believe its God and some believe its Adam. So which group is correct?
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Two claim to be Savior, Jesus is not a liar, neither is Father a liar, so they must both be the Savior.

I know God directly said "I am God, and there is no other."

When exactly did Jesus directly say "I am God, and there is no other"?

You know he didn't. And you are just stitching verses from everywhere to make your case that Jesus is God.