Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

reply to post by billy197300


Yes, I read your culture has tried to redefine the definition of marriage from what it has always historically been.

Leach expanded the definition and proposed that "Marriage is a relationship established between a woman and one or more other persons, which provides that a child born to the woman under circumstances not prohibited by the rules of the relationship, is accorded full birth-status rights common to normal members of his society or social stratum

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Then you have removed religion from a religious institution, you have walked into my religion and told me you want the rules changed.

Take the marriage out of the state, keep the state out of religious institutions. But dont change what marriage is and always has been.

From the same source you provided:

From the early Christian era (30 to 325 CE), marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no uniform religious or other ceremony being required.[54] However, bishop Ignatius of Antioch writing around 110 to bishop Polycarp of Smyrna exhorts, "[I]t becomes both men and women who marry, to form their union with the approval of the bishop, that their marriage may be according to God, and not after their own lust."[55]

en.wikipedia.org...

Based on that, I would say we should keep religion out of marriage, like it was in the beginning.

reply to post by kaylaluv


I am not christian... so you know...

it is not christianity or any of its history which defines marriage for me

Marriage historically has been a religious institution.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I love to break it to religious folks...

People got married before religion existed. Humans arent the only animals that mate for life, or atleast attempt to. You can call it what ever you want.. but some desert dwelling pedos didnt invent it.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

WHAT? You knew the first man ever on earth? How old are you? That is absolutely amazing! And they kept records back then.......I had NO idea, I thought they just scribbled stick figures on cave walls, silly me.:

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

I give up. I feel like I'm talking to a blank wall. A blank wall with a recorded message that just keeps repeating and repeating. Go ahead and ignore the facts, if that makes you feel better. But the facts still exist, regardless.

And here is another fact: gay marriage is becoming legal throughout the world. It is only a matter of time before it is legal throughout the U.S. You are free to not participate in a gay marriage if that is against your principles, but you cannot stop this momentum towards equality for all.

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

WHAT? You knew the first man ever on earth? How old are you? That is absolutely amazing! And they kept records back then.......I had NO idea, I thought they just scribbled stick figures on cave walls, silly me.

:

edit on 26-7-2012 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

Think OpinatedB is referring to "Adam" - The fictional character in the book "The Bible"

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

WHAT? You knew the first man ever on earth? How old are you? That is absolutely amazing! And they kept records back then.......I had NO idea, I thought they just scribbled stick figures on cave walls, silly me.

:

edit on 26-7-2012 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

Think OpinatedB is referring to "Adam" - The fictional character in the book "The Bible"

I really don't think so......this is a quote straight from OpinatedB:

I am not christian... so you know...

it is not christianity or any of its history which defines marriage for me

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


He is in more than one book than the Bible, again, I am NOT a christian.


This topic was removed from ATS and placed into the relationships portion of BTS, and since I am not discussing peoples personal relationships, I could care less what those might be, I was desirous of discussing a political topic controversial and relevant to this country today.

But since this is not allowed as a political topic or a social issue, but only one discussable concerning the private relationships of other people which I am not in the least interested in, I will leave this thread.

Thank you all for attempting anyway to discuss an issue.

Moderators can now simply close this thread. This is not discussable as peoples personal relationships. Not under my name.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
Then you have removed religion from a religious institution...

No, it wasn't there when I went to get married. The state (who gave me my license) did not require religion. I didn't ADD religion to my marriage, like some do. But I removed nothing.

Take the marriage out of the state, keep the state out of religious institutions.

That's not of concern to me. If YOU want a movement along those lines, start one. If YOU wish to change existing law (which does not require religion as part of marriage), then I support you in petitioning the government. You have the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

But dont change what marriage is and always has been.

As I said, I'm not concerned with what marriage "has always been". I'm concerned only with TODAY'S laws. If you want to change the law, then start or join a movement in progress.

Here are 18 Anti-Gay Groups who wish to keep gays out of marriage. Have fun!

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Yeah since the first man on earth according to records was married, and not according to culture either, but according to Gods laws, hence a religious institution.

What records? The Bible is a religious document and of course therefore validates religious beliefs. You really need third party documentation to verify that indeed that first man and woman were married. Perhaps, when we can travel through time, proper documentation can be made.

Otherwise, one must choose the religious explanation of early mankind, or go with the scientific explanation based on artifacts and communities discovered and studied by archaeologists.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
I will leave this thread.

Thank you all for attempting anyway to discuss an issue.

You said you were "honestly confused". We gave you everything you needed to completely abolish that confusion, yet you resisted and held fast in your firm beliefs. I don't think you're confused at all. You have your beliefs and opinions and aren't willing to allow that others have theirs, because they differ from yours. That's too bad.

This is not discussable as peoples personal relationships.

But that's just the point! Marriage IS a personal relationship. Mine is personal to me and I don't give two poops about anyone else's marriage. Neither should you. It's personal.

Great thread, though! Lots of good, factual information.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Take this as constructive advice OB. Call me biased, but since I like you I'll go easy on you.

The reason you're not understanding why gays are doing what they're doing is because you're looking at this through a religious perspective only. Gays are not. Say you get married one day at a church. It's a religious ceremony and that's the way you see it. A union before God. That's your perogative. But then one day your husband goes to work, gets plowed down by a semi and never comes back home. It happens to people every day. God understands because God took him, so the marriage before the eyes of God is over. But you're still going to have to go downtown and take care of the financials. You're going to have to take care of business. Something tells me OB that then and only then will you understand that marriage is not a religious thing only. It's also a business arrangement. Many people choose not to see it this way because it sounds so impersonal and un-romantic. Un-religious I guess too.

What the gays are trying to do is take care of business with religion taking a very distant back seat and that's why you're not understanding it. I can understand you being dedicated to your religion, or your belief, but there's a difference between dedication and tunnel vision. Tunnel vision means that your religion is all you see and nothing else matters. Sorry, but there is more to life than just religion. Dedication to something is making it the top priority in your life. You can do that with your religion, see other facets of life for what they are, and still be dedicated 100% to your religion of choice. If you have no doubts whatsoever that your religion is truly the right thing for you, then making it a top priority over everything else you understand shouldn't be an issue. Right?

Trust me, what you're doing people all over the world are doing in their own way with their own priority. Take the word religion and replace it with the word belief, hobby, political affiliation, job, pastime, whatever, and you'll get what I'm trying to say. You can't be so focused on one thing that nothing else matters. Humans just aren't wired that way. Let's just say that God didn't make us to have tunnel vision. He isn't the only thing he created and he isn't the only thing he expects you to be focused on and place importance on. If God is what you want to believe in, fine, but there's more to life then just him. If you don't believe me, ask him yourself.

I'm not going to say who it is OB, a family acquaintance in the Ozarks, but I know someone who has focused on God her entire life. That's all she's seen, focused on and placed importance on her entire life. I've seen this with my own eyes and it's not a pretty sight. Believe me when I tell you that she's not nearly the complete woman she could've been had she just stepped out of her shell of religion and placed imporatnce on other things as well. When you do that you learn about other things. You learn about life. She hasn't and her days are numbered. How can you learn about life when you close it off for the sake of focusing on religion only?

My point is, don't blame gay people for you not understanding them. You're putting yourself in that boat by not allowing yourself to understand them.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by polarwarrior

 

But there is no religion which allows for it.... I guess this is my point.

This is quite simple--you are not an expert on religions. There are obviously different interpretations of every religion's texts.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Marriage is a religious institution.

Many things were religious constitution, only because the Church was the government. Now the GOVERNMENT is the government, so religion no longer holds sway...theoretically speaking.

Therefore, why do gays and lesbians want to get married under a God who has already made clear His position about such a union?

They don't. They do it by law, not by religion...but not even the courts will allow it...as I said, the above is theoretical, but still full of holes.

Why are gays and lesbians not fighting to simply have the same rights as married people under the law, without entering into a religious institution?

Because the Church does not decide what financial rights and legal benefits married couples receive. That's the duty of the legislative branch. Hence, courtroom marriages. However, even the government seems to look down on same-sex marriage in the majority of cases.

I just do not get the whole entering into a contract before God who does not approve thing

Simply put, the church and state are separate (though technically, they are not, according to our constitution). Courtroom marriages are not subject to religious controversy, considering the "equal rights" in the amendments. Therefore, when gays apply for marriage, they are getting married in the eyes of the legal system, not the Christian god. There's a huge difference: one decides the legal rights, the other decides the moral fate.

Does that answer you?

Well if gay people want the same benefits as a married couple, then that sounds fine but I think it could cause a lot of problems... For example if we give gay couples the right to these benefits then what stops anybody from just getting married to wreak the benefits... Say I have a best friend and we turn out to be roommates, what's to stop me from asking him to marry so we can get our own tax breaks and all the other things we get from it??? Sure I realize that there probably some men and women that already do this but if we allow gay marriage then the rate at which people abuse the system can and probably will skyrocket!

reply to post by jheated5


Yes. We should require some evidence that the two people actually love each other. This is brilliant--we should institute this right now to prevent men and women from marrying for the wrong reasons. Sarcasm Off.

Seriously?