Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
. . .the point I'm making is this stuff has "invaded" my bedroom...and it hurt me.....

I don't understand that at all.

....but I have also watched a change in society that alarms me....and I think that "anything goes" sexually is a complex subject......people are going to do what they are going to do.....and really I am all about honesty when it comes to sharing your body with another...and from there everyone can determine their needs and boundaries.....

I am 65. Do you believe I haven't watched a change in society over the years?

I can tell you the major change is everything that has always been is being brought out into the open - - - instead of being shoved behind closed doors.

In my generation "dirty laundry" was kept behind closed doors. Oh - - it was always there - - just secretly hidden.

Do you honestly think that is better?

reply to post by Annee


Yes, keep it behind closed doors, we don't need it shoved in our faces.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
reply to post by Annee

 

Yes, keep it behind closed doors, we don't need it shoved in our faces.

Uh huh - - - and who is responsible for forcing gays to live on the fringe of society and create their own culture?

OH! Let me answer that for you. The holier-than-thou self righteous - - - "we don't want you" - - society.

It's time to stop having "fringe societies".

reply to post by Annee

Uh huh - - - and who is responsible for forcing gays to live on the fringe of society and create their own culture?

You do realize there is a lot of hostility towards homosexuals from the secular population, don't you? It doesn't just come from religious people. Saying it only comes from religious people is a huge generalization and doesn't really address the problem.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

Uh huh - - - and who is responsible for forcing gays to live on the fringe of society and create their own culture?

You do realize there is a lot of hostility towards homosexuals from the secular population, don't you? It doesn't just come from religious people. Saying it only comes from religious people is a huge generalization and doesn't really address the problem.

Heck, western culture is very accepting of homosexuality, close to half accept it. Of the other half, well I am sure of lot of religious people don't, but who cares....live and let live. But we don't want the I AM GAY shoved in our faces.

Be gay, be happy....but don't expect the rest of us to like it, or care (which is the category I fall into)

reply to post by MidnightTide

Heck, western culture is very accepting of homosexuality

Considering thirty six states don't allow homosexuals to marry, I'd say not. It's really only their friends and family who care, and the liberal media. And the only reason the liberal media cares is because they are not accepted by conservative Christians.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Well, in the USA, 40-50% accept homosexuality.....in Canada it is 60-70%, and homosexual marriage is legal here.

But in Africa, the middle east and Asia....not so much.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

You do realize there is a lot of hostility towards homosexuals from the secular population, don't you? It doesn't just come from religious people. Saying it only comes from religious people is a huge generalization and doesn't really address the problem.

I am secular. I am Atheist.

Majority opposition is religious based. Prop 8 made it clear religious belief is not valid reason to deny equality.

NOM (National Organization of Marriage - - formed for one reason only - - stop gay marriage) - - has changed the message to "protect the child - - protect the family - - etc.

I appreciate the post - - - but there is nothing on this subject that you could tell me - - - I am not already aware of.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Be gay, be happy....but don't expect the rest of us to like it, or care (which is the category I fall into)

I care about the LEGAL Equal Right of Marriage.

It is not about being gay - - - its about an Equal Civil Right.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Heck, western culture is very accepting of homosexuality

Considering thirty six states don't allow homosexuals to marry, I'd say not. It's really only their friends and family who care, and the liberal media. And the only reason the liberal media cares is because they are not accepted by conservative Christians.

Fear is a motivator. Fundamental religious honestly believe gays are an abomination of God - - and accepting them proves we are in the end times. Gods wrath will come down on them if they don't do everything they can to stop gays.

Everyone else falls into categories such as: "I care enough to vote" - - "I don't care" - - "I support Equal Rights" - - "Let someone else do it" - - "I have something better to do" - - etc.

Being gay does not make you political. Not all gays care about Legal Marriage.

I care about Equal Rights. I grew up with a disabled mom before the Disabilities Act. I experienced my mom being denied entrance to restaurants just because it might upset other customers. (among other experiences).

We all live together - - with all our differences.

Fear is a motivator. Fundamental religious honestly believe gays are an abomination of God - - and accepting them proves we are in the end times. Gods wrath will come down on them if they don't do everything they can to stop gays.

So what?

Like it or not people do have a right to these kinds of opinions.

Ostracizing them from society and telling them they must believe the same way as everybody else do, well, how is that real tolerance? It's not. It's selective tolerance.

True tolerance means growing a thick skin and allowing these people to have and express their views as well, and not discriminate against them.

Telling them to shut up and go away is an infringement upon their rights as well.

All things being equal.

Now, that does not mean I am supporting their actions. Any form of discrimination is wrong. All this really is doing is exchanging one form of discrimination for another. It's not real tolerance.

A true tolerant person fights against all forms of discrimination, not just against one aspect of society. All forms of discrimination is wrong. And forcing a business to shut down just because they don't believe the same thing you do is just another form of discrimination. And yes, I also include the bigots who want to shut down Wall Mart because different ethnic groups shop there, and so on.

A truly tolerant person learns to overcome their bigotries and prejudices and how to live with one another and not try to change the other person's belief just because we all have to conform to the one true way, whatever that one true way is.

Anything else is a sham.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

Fear is a motivator. Fundamental religious honestly believe gays are an abomination of God - - and accepting them proves we are in the end times. Gods wrath will come down on them if they don't do everything they can to stop gays.

So what?

Like it or not people do have a right to these kinds of opinions.

And where am I saying they don't? That is a flat out statement - - - not an opinion.

Ostracizing them from society and telling them they must believe the same way as everybody else do, well, how is that real tolerance? It's not. It's selective tolerance.

Where am I saying anything on how someone is supposed to believe?

Stop reading your own opinions into what I state.

True tolerance means growing a thick skin and allowing these people to have and express their views as well, and not discriminate against them.

Believing in something - - - then using that belief to deny others Equal Rights - - - is discriminatory.

There are believers who can separate their personal belief from Equal Rights.

Telling them to shut up and go away is an infringement upon their rights as well.

NOM (official anti-gay hate group) - - - just donated $250,000 to Maine's political anti-gay marriage movement.

No different then the KKK donating to deny blacks equal rights.

Money paid to deny Equality - - is not about infringement of personal belief.

NOM (official anti-gay hate group) - - - just donated $250,000 to Maine's political anti-gay marriage movement.

So what? They have every right to.

It's called right of association. Look it up.

You don't like it, compete with them and spend money on groups that support homosexual marriage.

Telling them they can't is an infringement upon their rights.

And, contrary to popular belief, there is no right to be married in the Constitution. Being married is a liberty and a privilege.

And where am I saying they don't? That is a flat out statement - - - not an opinion.

You're not outright plainly saying, but you are playing stupid semantic games. When you whine about someone supporting anti-homosexual marriage, you are doing precisely that, because you want to forbid them from exercising their rights. That's why you whine about it. And that's your opinion.

Believing in something - - - then using that belief to deny others Equal Rights - - - is discriminatory.

It works both ways. I'm sorry you can't see that. You're so locked into your paradigms you can't see what you're doing, and really, all you're doing is the same thing as they are. You are not any different than they are. You're just practicing selective tolerance.

Money paid to deny Equality - - is not about infringement of personal belief.

Yes, it is.

Real tolerance does not infringe upon anybody's rights, even if it is an uninformed, or bigoted, opinion.

You don't have to support them, you don't have to associate with them if you don't like it.

But it's just as much bigotry and intolerance when you guys say STFU and GTFO.

I'm sorry you can't see that. And I know, you're just too blinded by your confirmation bias to understand what true tolerance is.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


That was really well said......and as I reflect on the "raw" emotions I layed down in this thread, I would edit them if I could....my intention was to speak as honestly as I could on my personal hang-ups, but I appreciate it may have gone too far and insulted others, for that I am sorry......

My experiences have taught me my personal boundries...but I have absolutely no agenda to make any other human feel unworthy.....lol....well maybe that is not entirely true.....but my anger is directed more at what I see as an assult against humaity on every level, by ruthless "freaks"

Now maybe Annee is right and this has all been around since the beginning of time...and I don't doubt that actually...but in my lifetime, I have watched things change drastically....I'm in my 40's....and I really believe there is a sinister "agenda" to harm .....through drugs in our food and water.....kids are different in just 20 years...and I believe it has affected sexuality......on many levels......many people much smarter then me have pointed out these facts.......being tolerant is different then being "bullied"....and that really is how I see this issue......and I believe that males are taking the hardest hit....and that makes me sad......

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

So what? They have every right to.

I'm going to state this one more time.

Personal belief is personal belief. No one is stopping or interfering in anyone's personal belief.

When that personal belief interferes in Civil Rights Equality - - - then it is stepping beyond personal belief - - - into discrimination.

It is exactly the same as Whites using the Curse of Ham to justify inequality to blacks.

If you want to be blind to that - - its because you are choosing to.

reply to post by Annee

Personal belief is personal belief. No one is stopping or interfering in anyone's personal belief.

And i'm telling you, yes you are.

When you shout people down, when you boycott a store that doesn't believe the same you do to get it to change, when you demand they change their beliefs to match yours, that is precisely referring with someone else's personal belief. You can play semantics all you want to.

I'm sorry you can't see that.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
. . .and I really believe there is a sinister "agenda" to harm .....through drugs in our food and water.....kids are different in just 20 years...and I believe it has affected sexuality......on many levels......many people much smarter then me have pointed out these facts.......being tolerant is different then being "bullied"....and that really is how I see this issue......and I believe that males are taking the hardest hit....and that makes me sad......

What does any of your personal conspiracy belief have to do with Equal Rights of a Minority?

Homosexuality is a Birth Right. It is not a choice. It has been a part of nature right along with Heterosexuality.

Discrimination is not OK.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by Annee

 

Personal belief is personal belief. No one is stopping or interfering in anyone's personal belief.

And i'm telling you, yes you are.

I am not responsible for what you read into and how you interpret my statements.

Any emotions/feelings - - whatever - - you read into or how you interpret a post - - - are your own - - - not mine.

reply to post by Annee

Discrimination is not OK.

So you keep saying, but have no problem against discrimination of Christians and telling them STFU.

You deny this all you want, but i see right through you.

So obviously you do think some discrimination is okay.

I am arguing that ALL DISCRIMINATION is wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right.

You are not.

You can protest and and deflect all you want to.

A truly tolerant person sees this, and does not pick and choose.

reply to post by Annee

I am not responsible for what you read into and how you interpret my statements.

Yes you are. You have to take responsibility for the hurtful things you say about people. Free speech does come with responsibilities.

Any emotions/feelings - - whatever - - you read into or how you interpret a post - - - are your own - - - not mine.

Stop making this about me.