Opinions on my next handgun purchase?

reply to post by madenusa


Wtf? ..Its crap like that that gives gun owners a bad name. Get lost man.

...On topic. ..Kuddos to the op for keeping his cool and engaging the critics here with a light heart.

Originally posted by bjax9er
reply to post by bellagirl

 

yes i see the rest of the world is a bunch of ignorant slaves, who don't know how to mind their own worthless existence.

This statement is sooo true on so many levels.......

reply to post by Kastogere


i think i saw you two on swamp people.....or was it lizard lick towing.

Not a fan of 9mm, too small of a hole it makes. This comin from a guy who can peg a tin can from the hip with a 12 gauge pistol grip mossberg out at 50 feet.

Honestly....consider a revolver....ruger makes a nice revolver...smith n wesson? not so much anymore. They used to make really good handguns.....now its hit or miss when they took most revolvers hammerless.

Used to own a smith 457 semi auto 45 cal. Good gun but a pain to take apart. Glock is good if you want quality and ease of service.

reply to post by bellagirl


No swamps where I live....just bigfoot.....and bigfoot is packin a bar 50 from those mountain top glassing trips.

Originally posted by benrl
Personally have two XD pistols, 9mm and 45mm.

Never had a single problem with either, have probably put atleast 1000 rounds through each, min.

interesting note on the XD 9mm, if your in a clip restrictive state, like ca... I hear the 40mm 10 round clip fits in it...

supposedly adds more ammo count to it... supposedly...

edit on 25-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

They have 31 round 9mm clips... You probably aready knew that, but ill say it anyway

reply to post by bellagirl


You and your like are trolling this thread, as well as displaying a total disregard for the ATS rules under this topic.

No one here cares about your hate of firearms and/or your contempt for the people who use/own them.

Gun haters; here are the rules, take some time to act like an adult and read them:

FSME-The Weapons and Tactics Forum: What it is and what it is NOT

Originally posted by bellagirl
just a simple question...thats all. all these americans on here all talking guns and what they have, what should they buy. how many times have any of them had to use them in self defence????. im guessing NEVER. and i also think its a bit ironic that americans still say they are the land of the free. not so free if you ask me when you have to go out packing heat for a "just in case".

Do you wear a seatbelt? If so, why?

Are you free to carry a gun if you so choose? Then how is my ability to do so somehow equating to less freedom? That is some very, very odd logic and I'm afraid you are going to have to help me understand more.

i use my guns to put meat in my freezer. i also will tend to carry one with me, as I am responsible for very large sums of money in my job Do you think guns are solely for self defense? you DO realize that our arms are intended as a hedge against a tyrannical government. How has that disarmament been working for Australia? could you defend your nation against a tyrannical government? And if you had to, would you be able to put food on the table without a gun?

Originally posted by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx

 

Para makes a double stack 1911 in .45 acp. 14 rounds . I would also argue that the Glock is not historically reliable, was not that long ago they had to recall alot of them due to the barrel exploding. Google Glock boom and you will see.

Yeah, para has some good stuff... Ill have to check that out, I know there are a few out there, but hard to compete with the glock or springfield holding 19 rounds is it?

About the glock, interesting, kinda surprised I havn't heard about that... but then again if I owned a glock I'm sure I would have. But I have seen people bury their glocks for over a year, only the gun and dirt, and put a hundred rounds through it right after digging it up.

well, the majority of the reason of the Ka-boom issues with the glocks, was due to a design flaw, the way the chamber holds the cartridge is weak. It does not support the entire round and allows gasses to escape, on the bright side, the explosions generally blast down through the grip blowing out that portion and usually no serious injuries happens. That being said, most firearms models have had that happen a time or two, but with Glock it was a serious problem and one of the major contributers to why police departments bean to move away from the Glock and to the S&W and Springfield models. It actually led to a few model recalls. Ruger also had recalls on the .380 lcp for random unintentional discharge.

On a personal level, I have owned one Glock, promptly got rid of it. Was at the range and one of the pins holding the fire control group worked itself loose and fell out. I was told that it was a common issue with Glocks in larger caliber by several gunsmiths. I think Glocks are so popular because thats what they show on TV.

About that Para... here is a link to the high capacity 1911 in .45acp
www.para-usa.com...

and if you want a carry option, look at the carry safe model.

I have a Sig SP2022 in 9mm, It's VERY accurate, super reliable and a pretty good bargain. My advice is to take people's accuracy claims with a grain of salt, most service pistols are FAR more accurate than the shooter and people are quick to blame their gun and label it "inaccurate" instead of their poor trigger control, not focusing on their front sight, having a poor grip or other lack of fundamentals.

I carried a gun due to my various careers and most of the guys I train with hit with anything, I regularly outshoot people with their own pistols after a few rounds to see where the trigger breaks and where to hold, (Combat sight, 6 O'clock hold) I'm not saying this to boast, I was able to shoot weekly for years with my county footing the ammo bill & I can assure you I wouldn't have been able to afford the amount of ammo it takes to get good on my own.

I reccomend to ANYONE to buy a simple $500 striker fired 9mm , spend the money you're saving on buying ammo and taking a good tactical pistol course so you can actually learn how to "run your gun". EVERYONE thinks they can shoot, until they actually learn how to shoot, If the round isn't going where you want...then you can't shoot.

I'm sure many people are rolling their eyes, the closest analogy I can make is this. I'm sure we all think we're the best drivers on the planet, now if we were to jump in an Indy or F1 car and try our skills out on a track, we'd be humbled fairly quickly. Driving a car that costs 10x's more than the one in our driveway won't make you a better driver.

Now take any podium F1 driver and put him in your car and go for a test drive with him, you'll be amazed by what he can do with your car... It's not the car, it's the driver & seat time. Just like it's not the gun, it's the shooter & round count.

Remember, you're not training to shoot in the olympics and trying to put all of your rounds in the x on static target. You're training to put as much lead in the Heart/Spine or Brainbox of a person that's trying to kill you as fast as you can accurately do so...your training should reflect that.

reply to post by SM2


Also the Majority of the KB's are people reloading too hot, especially .40 because of the higher pressure.

Originally posted by Kastogere
Not a fan of 9mm, too small of a hole it makes. This comin from a guy who can peg a tin can from the hip with a 12 gauge pistol grip mossberg out at 50 feet.

Honestly....consider a revolver....ruger makes a nice revolver...smith n wesson? not so much anymore. They used to make really good handguns.....now its hit or miss when they took most revolvers hammerless.

Used to own a smith 457 semi auto 45 cal. Good gun but a pain to take apart. Glock is good if you want quality and ease of service.

I agree a 9mm is not going to stop anything. Someone posted earlier that a well placed shot from a 9mm will do the job, well so will a well placed shot from a pellet gun. The problem with that is...will Jane doe be able to accurately double tap a charging crack head center mass with her 9mm while she is scared for her life? The answer...probably not. .9mm, .380,.38 super..all pretty much the same round really, as a matter of fact they call a .380 a 9mm short in some circles, because that all it is. No doubt, any round can do the job in ideal conditions or with great marksmanship, but why leave it to chance? The 9mm is too fast it is a round designed for penetration not stopping power. Me personally, my everyday carry is either a 1911 in .45acp or a sig p226 in .40 depends on how I feel that day...one does have to accessorize lol

I agree with the revolver comment, i posted that earlier as well, less chance of anything going wrong. It is far simpler and you dont have to worry about any misfeeds and such. Get a .357 magnum, that way you can use cheaper .38 special ammo at the range for practice.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by SM2

 

Also the Majority of the KB's are people reloading too hot, especially .40 because of the higher pressure.

some of them yes, but I saw a ton of them due to factory loads. Glock was even telling people to not use Federal factory ammo due to the risk prior to issuing the recalls. Police departments do not use hot loads either, they use factory ammo, and hell, my local PD switched away from Glocks 4 years ago due to several of the having the explosion issue.

to further illustrate my point about Glocks I have a little list here, You must understand that Glock will not call it a recall they always refer to it was an "upgrade" and a "voluntary upgrade" means they were afforded the cahnce to do it voluntarily before the feds made it mandatory...here is a a partial list



Glock Pistol Upgrades

1990 Upgrade

Glock Model 19, 9mm Luger caliber, requires an upgrade for the following serial numbers:

AN, BP, BR, BV, BW, BX, DL, DM, DN, DP, DR, DS, DT, DV, DW, DX, DY, DZ
These pistols may have the potential of the action to malfunction as follows:
1. The slide locking back on a full magazine.
2. Failure to lock into battery because the barrel lug drags on the slide lock.
3. The magazine follower tips or sticks in the magazine tube.

1992, 6 part Upgrade

GLOCK, INC. Technical Bulletin #920403

April 1, 1992

Glock, Inc. announces a production change of the firing pin safety system. This new firing pin safety system has been installed in all production Glock pistols since November, 1991. A voluntary upgrade is being offered to maintain the Glock tradition of ensuring that all of our pistoils are up to the latest standards in 21st century Goock technology.

Most importantly, the components of the new firing pin safety system are not interchangable with the components of the old systam and Glock will always strive towards maintaining this feature of interchangability while working to ensure future interchangability.

The upgraded firing pin safety system consists of: the firing pin, firing pin safety, the extractor, the spring loaded bearing and the trigger bar. The upgraded system is applicable only to Glock pistols with the following serial number ranges :

Glock 17 - alpha prefixes AA - WF
Glock 19 - alpha prefixes through WJ
Glock 20 - alpha prefixes through WW
Glock 21 - alpha prefixes through XL
Glock 22 - alpha prefixes through YA
Glock 23 - alpha prefixes through SK

The upgraded firing pin safety has a new surface finish making it nearly 100% saltwater corrosion resistant. Also, after rigorous and extensive testing, the new system proves to be more durable and has a longer useful life. Here, as alwyas, Glock is working toward maintianing its standard of perfection.

1993, G19 Upgrade

Glock Model 19, 9mm Luger caliber, requires an upgrade for all pistols.

These pistols have the potential for an UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE of a cartridge with the action open.

The Glock model 19 pistol slide has a bottom protrusion, whose function is to push cartridges from the top of the magazine into the chamber. When the pistol is jammed in a double feed situation, the slide protrusion can come in contact with the primer of the jammed cartridge and cause UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE while the action is open.

2000, G26/27 Recoil spring upgrade

Glock Model 26, 9mm caliber, serial numbers DGU, DHR DKU.

Glock Model 27, .40S&W caliber, serial numbers DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW, DKX.

Mr. Don Bulver, warranty department of Glock, Inc., indicated the recoil springs produced before September 1999 may shear off on some of these pistols due to over hardness of the support tube.

Replacement springs will be distinguished by a vertical mark from the center on the front polymer portion of outer ring of the guide rod assembly, which will appear to be a mold line.

2002 Frame Upgrade – Rear slide rail

The GLOCK Corporation has identified a problem with a very small percentage of GLOCK pistols produced between September of 2001 and May of 2002. The specific problem that has been identified is the potential of breaking a rear frame rail in pistols manufactured during this time period. Within the specific range the breakage rate has been less than 0.0188%. So, while the actual percentage of rails reported broken is within any accepted manufacturing tolerance, it is not an acceptable situation to the GLOCK Corporation. It is also important to note that under most conditions GLOCK pistols will continue to function with three rails. A routine maintenance check after each time the pistol has been taken out and used would immediately indicate if there is a problem.

We are, therefore, concerned that a limited number of customers will not get the product we have promised them and what we have always delivered, the very best pistol on the market, in short, a GLOCK.

For these reasons, we have made the decision that in the interest of customer service, replacement frames will be offered to anyone who has a firearm in this range and decides to take advantage of this offer.

Nothing less than the best for our customers is acceptable to GLOCK and, as always, we will continue to work towards Perfection.


and recently, the 4th gen models have been recalled due to faulty recoil spring assemblies

reply to post by SM2


I'm not arguing with you and I'm well aware of their issues, I'm not a fanboy by anymeans & I had to train around many of my dislikes of the pistol (Trigger, grip angle) If you look at the number of glocks in circulation (Something like 2 1/2 million worldwide) and compare it to any other service pistol, the Glock is a more reliable pistol.

The thing about the Glock is it doesn't do anything excellent, but it does most things pretty well and it's a great value. It is made for people that are probably not going to maintain it properly & it's going to be outside in the elements a lot of the time (It's a service pistol) Look at it as the Toyota Camry of guns, great value, very reliable & everyone knows someone that has one. The downside is it's kind of ugly and it has no soul, passionless. No one gets excited about a glock, no one gets exited about a camry...but they both work when you need them too.

I Love HK's & Sig's...my favorite gun is my Colt Commander XSE & my favorite Rifle is my Marlin 336. But God forbid the SHTF, I'll have a Glock on my hip & my AK in my hands.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


to each their own. I respect your opinion, I just disagree with the reliability of a glock and an AK for that matter. The stories of them firing unerder water, in mud etc are just that stories, the only thing that would make it any more reliable to an AR is the gas piston system as opposed ot the direct gas, and most new ar rifles have the piston instead.

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

to each their own. I respect your opinion, I just disagree with the reliability of a glock and an AK for that matter. The stories of them firing unerder water, in mud etc are just that stories, the only thing that would make it any more reliable to an AR is the gas piston system as opposed ot the direct gas, and most new ar rifles have the piston instead.

I like you bro I'm just sayin....









Best Glock Torture Test

The piston system of the AK is EXACTLY why it's a more reliable gun, that and the AK's looser tolerances. Most AR's today aren't piston guns, My personal AR's are DI , I maintain & properly clean & lube my rifle... I have however learned how the AR system runs when dry, dirty and hot in the Corps, the answer is not very good.

Last week I was at the range with friends and it started to rain, I had the AR & AK out, during the hump back to the truck both weapons got wet...I went home stripped the AR, cleaned & lubed it and put it in the safe, the AK I wiped down the exterior & just put in the safe.

I've had my service rifle rust on the barrel from condensation going from a freezing enviroment to an indoor one, in HOURS.

I respect your opinion as well, but I speak from personal experience.

Nowhere did I say that the AK is superior to the AR, or that the Glock is Superior to all other pistols, In fact in a normal enviroment where I know I'll be able to service the AR (AKA the real world) I'm team AR all day, I've got far more muscle memory into it, it's got vastly better ergo's and it's more accurate...I simply run it better. But, If I'm in hypothetical Mad Max SHTF land , I'm taking the AK. The Muj maintain them by dipping their shoestrings in motor oil tying a knot & running it down the bore, these people live in friggin bedrock & their weapons work.The AK and AR a different tools with a different philosophy of use. I wouldn't go offroading in a Porsche 911 & I wouldn't take a Jeep Wrangler out on a racing track... different tools for different jobs, just be realistic with their capacities.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

Ok then ignore the financial question. You already have two guns. Why do you need more? You can already carry the ones you have and you were not thinking about buying another one until the issue of guns came up. Whats the point? Lol

you know what, NONE OF US ARE SOLEY BUYING THE GUN TO KILL.

I bought my gun as a hobby...

Most of us probably did, I like going to shoot, its really fun, you should try it before you write it off completely.

Im tired of this thought that all americans are itching to just shoot someone...

edit on 25-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

I like my guns. I like my sense of protection. I like my ability to save a life if needed. I like the ability to take a stupid life should my family ever need protecting. I like the ability to have something that assures me that you will go against my core beliefs over my dead and bloated body. God, Man and Country, in that order.

My guns dont tell me who to kill or shoot at. Stupid people trying to harm me or my family dictate that very clearly to me. Always inviting if you will.

Guns have their place in my home... A safe place, but one easily gotten to should I need. I follow the 3 movement rule.. make at least 3 movements before firing a round from my gun to assure that it wont be fired while i'm dreaming or accidently. The first one is manditory that I get out of bed by at least a step. If there is a problem with closer quarters, I have something for that too, but isnt lethal while sleepwaling.

People buy guns for many reasons. Even if that reason is to take a life, which many of us already know that such days can happen... it's just something you have to figure out while you're going through it. Yet, I know not one that can tell you that they will never use their weapon in self defence. We dont know.. Thats why we keep them close and why were were given that right in the beginning.

Do we REALLY have to live through somethings all over again to know what we had the rules put there in the first place? I hope not....

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by 1MrMarc

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by becomingaware

 

That is what i keep saying....the .40 is superior for self defense usage. It has outstanding stopping power in a size that almost anyone would feel comfortable using and carrying. And the recoil is managable on a decent gun like your Glock (not so much on my Taurus, which is like getting punched really hard with each round....it is a Taurus afterall). I don't recommend my Taurus, however. I have had some serious issues with the slide making contact with my thumb (because it has more recoil that you would expect from a .40).

If you are going to get a defense round, the .40 is vastly superior.

.40 is a great round that's the main caliber used by LEO's. The downside is that .40 will usually give you more muzzle flip. Where the .45 gives you a more controllable shove when it recoils. I have the Sig Tac-Ops in .40. eventhough I love it and it looks cool, I shoot tighter groups with my .45 and 9mm.

edit on 7/26/1212 by 1MrMarc because: stupid phone

edit on 7/26/1212 by 1MrMarc because: (no reason given)

You will definitely experience lower recoil in a 9mm thus improving accuracy but despite the higher pressures (of the .40 vs .45) I find my HK 40 more accurate that a typical 45.

edit on 26-7-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

That's interesting, I find the opposite to be true (for me). Although, HK does make a great gun $$$$. I love the 45 round, makes a big hole and has good knock down power. I find a lot more muzz flip with the higher velocity 40, where the 45 tends to be more of a soft push. My accuracy is best with a 45 and follow up shots are quicker and more accurate, at least for me. With that being said, I like the 40 the best for CCW self defense, like BFT said it's probably the best round out there for self defense.

9mm are good but if you already have a 40 why bother getting a 9mm? You don't gain anything as far as concealment and you give up a lot of power compared to the 40. I would rather have two 40's (full size and sub compact) than I would one 9mm and one 40.

reply to post by mtnshredder


Personaly I would stay clear of the 9mm. Its the one gun that's liable to keep your attacker alive, especially if under the influence of alcohol or drugs. A 9mm will not do a whole lot unless it's comming in 10 rounds from an automatic rifle. Think M16. 1 shot isnt always a kill. 1 shot is seldom a kill unless you hit them in the dome.

You want a gun that will do it's job perfectly?

Mr Smith and Wesson, 3 5 and 7. Big flash, BIG noise and Big knockdown. No.. they wont get up. Even if you used 38 rounds in it.

a .45 is always a good one to have. But a 9mm or less... throw that away, you're going to piss someone off who will be on drugs, and will kill you before enough blood loss takes place to put HIM down. If he's a big guy... Fat chance. You'd have more luck with a super soaker.