World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

Originally posted by iIuminaIi
I am not anti-human.

But i do have problem with hogs .


[color=grey]" KILL ALL MUSLIMS "
-- Ralph Peters

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters on Journalists: ‘Kill Them All’

Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, Darfur, Cambodia…I could go on. You get my drift. What universe is this guy living in? What human being half-aware of the contemporary AND historical record believes that genocide is “unthinkable” today? What Peters is REALLY complaining about is that we don’t credit the possibility that MUSLIMS want to exterminate us as Nazis exterminated Jews. And here the answer is, unfortunately for Peters, that yes, most of us don’t believe radical Muslims, even had they the will to do so, actually have the ability to do “the unthinkable.”

He's an idiot, they have the ability to do the unthinkable? As in H.A.A.R.P and MK ULTRA? or was he thinking more in the terms of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Islam does not have a death penalty for apostasy.

Then why almost 50% of muslims support it?



Islamic theory vs. islamic practice. One is more important than the other.

No it doesn't provide a "more reliable picture." Because, again, it all depends on who gets polled on that particular day. Show me a worldwide poll of ALL Muslims and then I'll be content.

No. From your replies you clearly do not understand how polling works. As long as the sample is representative, a poll of 1000 is enough to represent many millions with accuracy down to a few %. Thats just a statistical fact. You DONT need to interview everyone to get accurate results.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by TRGreer

 

Dear TRGreer,

Yet more misunderstandings? Ah well, such is life.

How then do you suggest you turn 500,000 to just 5 if you don't break a few eggs to make the omelet? ... so to speak. We do so want you to be able to sleep at night don't we?

I was talking about two different groups. I think that I, and the rest of the world, would be more concerned about a large group of violent terrorists than a small group.

Maybe I wasn't clear because you haven't answered the question. Let me try to be more to the point. Should you be punished for crimes committed by another simply because you shared a belief?

It depends. (My favorite answer in normal conversation, my second favorite is "yes and no.") Do you really mean the only connection is a shared belief? I haven't encouraged, supported or approved in the action in any way, and the belief that we shared was not that it is a good idea to commit those crimes. Also, is there nothing in those beliefs that would influence anyone else to commit those crimes? Then OK, don't put me in jail for a sentence equal to the perpretrator's.

By the way, were you satisfied with my answers otherwise?

With respect,
Charles1952

You really are not answering the questions and I think you know exactly what I am asking. Why are you being evasive? Lets see if I can phrase it in a way that you cant wiggle around. You and the "rest of the world" are concerned with the increase in Muslims. More specifically violent extremist Muslims. By your own words you said you would rather deal with 5 violent extremist as opposed to 500,000. You also stated that "the world" as well as yourself would be more concerned over a large group of violent extremist.

So my question to you is what do you propose to do about it? Are you just complaining but have no real answers? Are you hoping someone will do the dirty work for you and wipe em out? Are you just respectfully hate mongering? What do you want to do about this "extremist threat"?

Next .... Lets see if I can make this one crystal clear. You are a christian I think? Do you think you should be held accountable for the fire bombing of clinics and assassinations of abortion doctors simply because someone of your faith committed these crimes? I am assuming that you have never killed anyone or set fire to property that does not belong to you but other extremist Christians have. Should you and all the other innocent practitioners of your faith be judged by these radical extremist? Should you be treated like the radical criminal element of YOUR faith. Note the YOUR. Did you see the big YOUR. Make sure to pay attention to the capitalized YOUR. That capped YOUR means YOU personally. YOUR religion. YOUR belief system and please no more of the if this or if that bull. We don't have to pretend that there are violent extremist Christians. We know they are a very real threat. I mean you do admit Christianity has violent extremist right?

Originally posted by charles1952
The problem, at least for me, isn't the religious affiliation of the person thinking horrible thoughts or doing horrible deeds. The problem is why. I can see that some people are insane, or have violent political differences. But what I'm wondering about is why no one seems to be addressing the argument that in the case of Muslims, far more than with any other group, violence is being done to spread the "true religion," or eliminate those with whom they have religious differences.

I dispute this claim. If you look into so-called Muslim violence, it's almost ALWAYS based on politics, not religion. Extremists just use religion as their excuse to get people, especially the young and impressionable, to rally behind their cause. When they have religious justifications it's easier to get someone to go along with it, especially if they are promised abundant treasures in the afterlife. If Sheikh So-and-So comes along and merely says "You have to suicide bomb this site because they are oppressing our people." It wouldn't have the same ring as, "You have to suicide bomb this site because they are opressing our people and Allah wills it. If you do He will give you a high station in Heaven. You will be among God's beloved and will receive 72 virgins. In addition, your family will be taken care of in this life and the next"

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

The Quran is LITERALLY the Word of God but that doesn't mean every verse is literal.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but claiming that it's the word of God is misleading. The whole premise of Islam is that God gave the Qur'an to Mohammad and that it's been the same book ever since. But it was Gabriel that appeared to him and spoke the book, not God.

/TOA

And who was Gabriel speaking on behalf of? God. Gabriel is the main messenger angel of God. He was the one who appeared to Mary to tell her that she was pregnant. So since it was Gabriel who appeared to Mary and not God Himself, would it be fair to say that God did not speak to Mary? No.

And it is the same book that was first revealed. There has been no changes whatsoever to it. Can the Bible boast that claim? 100% absolutely not.

Originally posted by Maslo


Then why almost 50% of muslims support it?

So? We are talking about what Islam and the Quran actually teaches. And that's almost 50% according to these polls in which again I'm sure not all Muslims were polled.

But still the point is, and we've made this point ad infinitum on this thread and others, that not everything that a group believes is what its religion actually teaches. You cannot stereotype and blame a religion for the actions of some of its members when what they are doing contradicts the religion. You need to get as informed as these extremists do about what the Quran says.

Islamic theory vs. islamic practice. One is more important than the other.

Yes. And to correct the errors there needs to be education.

No. From your replies you clearly do not understand how polling works. As long as the sample is representative, a poll of 1000 is enough to represent many millions with accuracy down to a few %. Thats just a statistical fact. You DONT need to interview everyone to get accurate results.

Yes, you do. A poll is not accurate because again it all depends on whom you poll. You can poll 1000 people and find that say 40% of them support gay marriage. You could then poll 1000 people in a completely different area and then find that 85% of them support gay marriage. It all depends on whom you poll. Polling is not accurate. We've seen that time and time again. That's why in politics for instance people don't put a lot of faith in what polls say. They can easily be manipulated.

Using my example of gay marriage, if I polled 1000 people in the deep South and then polled 1000 people in California or New York, the numbers would be very different.

You know, when I think about it the subject heading of the OP is a good question. What DO you really know about Islam? It seems to me like the OP, and many of these anti-Muslim types on this thread, don't know much about Islam at all. They know what they have been TAUGHT, but they don't know what Islam teaches. And it doesn't seem like they really want to know. It's easier to hate something if you remain uninformed about it.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Yes, you do. A poll is not accurate because again it all depends on whom you poll. You can poll 1000 people and find that say 40% of them support gay marriage. You could then poll 1000 people in a completely different area and then find that 85% of them support gay marriage. It all depends on whom you poll. Polling is not accurate. We've seen that time and time again. That's why in politics for instance people don't put a lot of faith in what polls say. They can easily be manipulated. Using my example of gay marriage, if I polled 1000 people in the deep South and then polled 1000 people in California or New York, the numbers would be very different.

Polling is accurate if you have a representative sample, meaning that if you poll 1000 people in deep south, then the poll is accurate for deep south. In the same way, polls I posted are accurate for middle east. Saying that polling is not accurate because views may be different in a different area is just stupid, and this does not undermine accuracy of polls in any way.

People put a lot of faith in well-conducted polls in politics. For example, election results usualy reflect what polls predict down to a few %.

reply to post by marinesniper0317


You're a marine sniper, you should know what your country has done.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


I don't hate Muslims for being simply Muslim, but you can be sure I don't want to see an increase in the population in my area for the simple fact that Islam has a disturbing and significant porting of extremists.

(and yes, I said significant, even I, living in a small city have come across Islamic extremists)


reply to post by DeadSnow


Please name me a nation that is squeaky clean......go ahead, I am waiting.

Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

 

The Western world has bought into a shedload of propaganda concerning Islam, and it is all too apparent that we are ready to believe the best about the 'religion of peace', without considering the actual facts. Something has become brutally clear in recent years. Our leaders are jumping up and down to be counted as 'tolerant' and as ambassadors for religious freedom, and both they, and simpering members of multi-faith groups are quick to label Islam as a 'religion of peace'. However, Islam in itself, in its literal and true form, is not a religion of peace. The scriptures of the Koran openly promote violence against all who are not Muslim, with explicit instructions regarding the need for ongoing conquest and subjection of all who are not in submission to Islam (in fact, 'Islam' literally means 'submission').

All religions are responsible for deaths, all human beings regardless. Your thread is biased.

NO they are not all responsible for deaths. Power hungry people are. The difference is islam is as power hungry as those individuals in where it wants to turn the world to its view by force., with violence.

Christianity does not tell its followers to destroy unbelievers but minister to them. It does not tell you to destroy them or attack all those who do not believe. Power hungry leaders make that decision it is not said in the scriptures unlike the islam scriptures where it is expected.

edit on 27-7-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

May you forever live your American dream, as they say ignorance is bliss and if you truly believe all religions are not responsible for deaths then I have nothing further to say to you.

Originally posted by Maslo


Polling is accurate if you have a representative sample, meaning that if you poll 1000 people in deep south, then the poll is accurate for deep south. In the same way, polls I posted are accurate for middle east. Saying that polling is not accurate because views may be different in a different area is just stupid, and this does not undermine accuracy of polls in any way.

People put a lot of faith in well-conducted polls in politics. For example, election results usualy reflect what polls predict down to a few %.

Oh it's "just stupid," huh? Well you've shown that you cannot even have a simple discussion over something without descending to insults when someone challenges you.

So the final thing I will say to you, and will be ignoring you from here on out, is I've stated before that elections results can and do show the OPPOSITE of what polls say. As I said it all depends on whom you poll. Polls are not an exact science and can be manipulated to achieve whatever purpose you want them to.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Ok well then you DO hate Muslims. And if you have come across "Islamic extremists" in your "small city" then why haven't you reported them?

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Ok well then you DO hate Muslims. And if you have come across "Islamic extremists" in your "small city" then why haven't you reported them?

Because the system protects these extremists, who politically hide themselves under the guise of racism and other political terms like Islamophobia....and go ahead and say I hate Muslims, but I am simply telling the truth (that none of you seem willing to admit) that Islam has a serious problem in that many do believe in extremist ideals.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Because the system protects these extremists, who politically hide themselves under the guise of racism and other political terms like Islamophobia

Oh that's absolute b.s. and a total cop-out! America does NOT protect extremists. If you have evidence that someone is an extremist then report them. If they really are, trust me, they will be renditioned to some foreign country and tortured or locked in Gitmo.

If you are not reporting terrorists in the US then you are turning a blind eye to potential violence against Americans. If something happens then it's your fault for not reporting it.

No, I'm pretty sure you are lying about these "Islamic extremists" that live in your "small city" that you know about. If you weren't, you'd report them.

Seems to me that you merely suspect them of being "Islamic extremists" simply because they are Muslim. You have no evidence to back your claim whatsoever and so that's why you don't report them.

It might blow your mind to see how wrong you are if you actually attempted to get to know some Muslims, especially the ones you are so suspicious of.

....and go ahead and say I hate Muslims,

You do. In your own words you said "I don't hate Muslims simply for being Muslim." That means that you indeed do still hate them, just not because they are Muslim. Apparently you hate them because of Islamic extremism. So what you are doing is saying that any time you meet a Muslim you automatically hate them because of terrorists. You are stereotyping Muslims and judging us based on extremists.

but I am simply telling the truth (that none of you seem willing to admit) that Islam has a serious problem in that many do believe in extremist ideals.

Another lie. All of us have admitted that there are extremist Muslims. We are arguing that extremism though is NOT endorsed by the Quran and is not a part of Islam.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Oh that's absolute b.s. and a total cop-out

Ya, that about sums it up. No wonder I get so many pms from people warning me that I won't get anywhere when I post in these threads.

Another lie. All of us have admitted that there are extremist Muslims. We are arguing that extremism though is NOT endorsed by the Quran and is not a part of Islam.

Seems that a lot of people have a difference in opinion on this matter.

Originally posted by MidnightTide


Ya, that about sums it up. No wonder I get so many pms from people warning me that I won't get anywhere when I post in these threads.

No, you're not going to get anywhere when you make unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to back them up. If you are so concerned about "islamic extremists" where you are from then you have a duty to report them. Since you have not done so then I can easily logically surmise that you are full of it.

Remember, the tagline for this website is "Deny Ignorance." That is exactly what I am doing. Denying your ignorance that you are coming here spouting.

Seems that a lot of people have a difference in opinion on this matter.

Opinions don't change facts.

reply to post by MidnightTide


No nation has a clean record, whilst some are put on the spotlight, others are ignored. There's no country with a record as dirty as the U.S and Israel at the moment.

reply to post by Maslo


You know in some parts of the world Christians still go on witch hunts, the search function is your friend. Does this mean we demonize Christians as a whole or judge individuals?

As for the whippings, don't act like Christians do not fight or even beat/mistreat their wives...Once again this depends on Character and not religion. I'm sure you will find Buddhists and atheists that do the same.

That does not make muslims extremists less bad. It makes rebel groups in Africa more bad.

Why the fear towards Muslim extremists then, we should focus more on rebel groups now shouldn't we?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by DeadSnow

 

Yeshua/Jesus DID ressurrect from the dead! He was G-d in flesh
and paid our sin debt!
The catholic church corrupted christianity and changed the sabbath
to sunday.I don't celebrate christmas and easter either.

Please show me a where in the Bible it says he was God?, Or was this just a misinterpretation by modern scholars? The trinity and crucifixion tales go back thousands of years before Jesus ever lived.