Christians... riddle me this!

reply to post by adjensen

It's also clear that you don't know what my beliefs are, because anyone who knows me "in real life" would have a good laugh at you painting me as a "conservative Christian" and "the religious right".

'What are you going on about? It's not always all about you,' Sir.

If you re-read my post, you will see that I agreed that I am angry, and at whom, and why. I did not say "You" I said "People." And I was careful to do so. You brought up my anger issues, and I owned and explained them. Nothing more. And now anyone who "knows you...would have a good laugh at me"? At me? Is that what you mean? Or "at me 'painting' you as such and such."?

See how that works? I was not painting you as those things, but just that fact that you and your acquaintances would simply "laugh at it" says loads. Does it not matter to you how you come across to people? It's beneath you to explain yourself in a way that makes it clear? It is the burden of the message-sender to ensure that the message recipient understands the message accurately. If the message sender is misunderstood and doesn't care, but just laughs it off, that does nothing to help create compassion. It serves to uphold the divisions between humans.

The only statement I made to you in particular, in my rebuttal, was this:

"I don't care what you "recommend", I'm here to fight for a cause, and I don't care if it was me or 3NL you were calling "buttercup". It was flippant, and disrespectful, and therefore, offensive. You have some major superiority issues, and I am perfectly within my rights to protest that kind of "name-calling" toward ANYONE. "

This was in direct response to your generally condescending attitude, and having "assumed" anything at all about my own pov and putting words in my mouth based on those assumptions.

The fact remains that condescension, like sarcasm, is a block to communication. Respect is earned by those who treat others with respect. Your disrespect and flippant attitude toward others represents you, no matter what your "real life" opinions are. I am just as capable of snide, sarcastic "snarky" biting as you; and when that is the approach taken toward me or others, I sometimes choose to return it in kind.

To re-rail Akragon's thread...what would "heaven" be like? I'm not technically a "Christian", but inasmuch as I do strive to follow the simple message he gave, "heaven" would be free from this kind of petty bickering and ugliness. I suspect you and I would agree some things, and it's sad to me that you have dismissed me without finding that out. Which is why we are in hell, right here, as others have pointed out.

If the human race will knock off the bickering and finger-pointing and labeling and antagonism toward others, we could even have "heaven on earth." Which was the whole idea to begin with. Instead, we have a bunch of people claiming "it will never change", and then carrying on without giving any more thought to how it might change, if we all tried. Pragmatism is all well and good, but proactive efforts to promote change are imperative.

"It is what it is." Well, it sucks. Now, how can we change it? I apologize for my contribution to the discord, to start with. And I'm willing to come to the table with ideas.

Just something to think about. Good day, Sir.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I am 23, why?

Yay! My eldest child is also 23, and also enlightened to these issues. That's what we need, is for the youth to step up and declare that the Emperor is naked.
Good on ya! Don't give up the fight!!
Cheers!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Since I have already completed step one of the process, why don't you get on it?

I have presented in what context I interpret the bible, so why not start considering it? Oh yeah, that's right, you refuse to even 'try' to understand or consider it. Hypocrite much?

reply to post by wildtimes


The reason they just sit on their hands and do nothing about it is because they don't care about this life or mother Earth because of what religion has taught them. They truly believe that there is a separate heaven after this life, so why should they make an effort to change anything? All they have to do is believe and they will be saved. If they are guaranteed to make it to heaven then they don't care about what happens here and now because it's all a game until after they die, and that's when the 'real' life starts.

The dogma of hell keeps them firmly planted in their seats because they are afraid to think anything else because of the penalty of going to hell.

They take the easiest road possible, the one that takes the least amount of thinking to figure out.

Jesus said ''I am' the way, the truth and the life'. He did not say 'Jesus is the way the truth and the life'.

Well, unless he was 'The Rock', I wouldn't expect him to refer to himself in the third person....

... Was jesus also 'The Rock'?

Before Abraham was, I am.

Before Abraham was what, you were what?


Or do you mean he was Abraham-I-am? Did he have a feeling also?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by wildtimes

 

The reason they just sit on their hands and do nothing about it is because they don't care about this life or mother Earth because of what religion has taught them. They truly believe that there is a separate heaven after this life, so why should they make an effort to change anything? All they have to do is believe and they will be saved. If they are guaranteed to make it to heaven then they don't care about what happens here and now because it's all a game until after they die, and that's when the 'real' life starts.

The dogma of hell keeps them firmly planted in their seats because they are afraid to think anything else because of the penalty of going to hell.

They take the easiest road possible, the one that takes the least amount of thinking to figure out.

You know what, I don't believe in the bible or god or anything else supernatural BUT I actually agree with what you've written here.... Wholeheartedly... I couldn't disagree with a thing you've said in this comment.... Funny that isn't it, how an atheist and a Christian can believe essentially the same thing in principle but have two totally different views of the world.... That's a new experience for me that.... Thanks

Originally posted by borntowatch
Riddle me this? What? Are you like 13 years old and reading batman comics.
What is in your head to say "riddle me this" as a question to other adults.

Do you expect a serious answer to a childish question like that.
You dont think that patronising smug arrogant attitude is going to make people think you are a...well whatever they may wish to think of you.

Yeah we toast marshmallows and drink hot chocolate.
Childish answer suits a childish question.

It's actually a serious question and I'm guessing you don't have an answer so you attacked him personally. Interesting. He started with 'riddle me this' so therefore you are going to bicker with him and put him down instead of thinking of an answer. I didn't see an arrogant attitude in there anywhere, I guess questioning christianity in a serious way makes a person arrogant. Sad times..

reply to post by Milkflavour

Before Abraham was what, you were what?


Or do you mean he was Abraham-I-am? Did he have a feeling also?

Did he like green eggs and ham?
Sorry, guys. Just wanted to lighten up the mood a bit.
In my opinion, LAUGHTER is a manifestation of the Divine. Smiling and laughing are universal gestures, laughter is proven to be healing...likewise, pain and crying are universal gestures.

How about we all try to cheer each other up, get each other laughing, and help dry those tears away?
Huh? Any takers?

(gasp....Maybe he is 'The Rock. )

reply to post by Milkflavour


'I am' refers to consciousness because without consciousness there would be nothing to state 'I am'. Jesus was the 'I am' just as everyone else is the 'I am' because we all have consciousness, which leads to 'I am'.

Originally posted by Milkflavour

Jesus said ''I am' the way, the truth and the life'. He did not say 'Jesus is the way the truth and the life'.

Well, unless he was 'The Rock', I wouldn't expect him to refer to himself in the third person....

... Was jesus also 'The Rock'?

Before Abraham was, I am.

Before Abraham was what, you were what?


Or do you mean he was Abraham-I-am? Did he have a feeling also?

Before any 'thing', I am.
No 'thing' can be known without the presence that I am. I am that I am.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


think about it, if one believes there is only blackness/nothingness after death like turning off a light switch then that is what there may be... I believe the afterlife is closely related to dreaming sometimes. Also alot of it come down to ones experiences in this life, it's what you take with you (your experiences on this planet.)

I don't believe there ever is an end, we're all Gods children and consciousness is a strange thing and personally I believe humans are not native to this planet... we require lots of care and nurturing to survive into young adulthood, unlike the rest of the species on this rock.

so what do you really believe? on may create their own afterlife if the choose to believe there is one... imo it is better to believe, heck why not? sure beats nothingness and blackness

reply to post by Milkflavour

Funny that isn't it, how an atheist and a Christian can believe essentially the same thing in principle but have two totally different views of the world.... That's a new experience for me that.... Thanks

Wait. Who you callin' a "Christian"???
All I said was I believe his message was correct. But so were Buddha, Krishna, and lots of others. He was just one of many who have tried to show the way. But you were addressing 3NL, not me.
I'm not an atheist or a "Christian." I'm a humanitarian; a universalist, and believe with every fibre of my being that in the end, we will all get there, each on his or her own path.
Namaste!

reply to post by Milkflavour


I am not christian, I used to be christian, now I am me with no labels attached. I despise any kind of religion for what they do to their followers and what they promote here on Earth. They promote laziness and bigotry and hate and the destruction of nature. They are the closest thing to evil you will find here on Earth, in my opinion.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Milkflavour

 

Before Abraham was what, you were what?


Or do you mean he was Abraham-I-am? Did he have a feeling also?

Did he like green eggs and ham?

Sorry, guys. Just wanted to lighten up the mood a bit.
In my opinion, LAUGHTER is a manifestation of the Divine. Smiling and laughing are universal gestures, laughter is proven to be healing...likewise, pain and crying are universal gestures.

How about we all try to cheer each other up, get each other laughing, and help dry those tears away?
Huh? Any takers?

(gasp....Maybe he is 'The Rock.

)

Now THERE'S a conspiracy right there!

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to derail the thread, but yeah, just wanted to lighten the mood a wee bit....

LAUGHTER is a manifestation of the Divine. Smiling and laughing are universal gestures, laughter is proven to be healing

Also ^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^

I don't believe in the divine in terms of spirits or gods but, the intention of the meaning is the same for me....
I did a lecture on laughter and it's healing properties about two years ago, it really IS the best medicine

reply to post by SisyphusRide


I believe in reincarnation, Jesus even hints at this possibility within the bible. I do not believe in nothingness and blackness, those who do are just as naive as religious people in my opinion.

Originally posted by Milkflavour

Jesus said ''I am' the way, the truth and the life'. He did not say 'Jesus is the way the truth and the life'.

Well, unless he was 'The Rock', I wouldn't expect him to refer to himself in the third person....

... Was jesus also 'The Rock'?

Before Abraham was, I am.

Before Abraham was what, you were what?


Or do you mean he was Abraham-I-am? Did he have a feeling also?

Before anything - I am. After any thing - I am.
I am the truth, the way and the life.

No 'thing' can be known without the presence that I am. I am that I am.

I'm a sailor man!

(sorry, I'll stop now...)

Also, apologies to those who I wrongly accused of being Christians

Terrible mistake on my part...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Milkflavour

 

I am not christian, I used to be christian, now I am me with no labels attached. I despise any kind of religion for what they do to their followers and what they promote here on Earth. They promote laziness and bigotry and hate and the destruction of nature. They are the closest thing to evil you will find here on Earth, in my opinion.

if one likes it or not and they enjoy the western way of life then they are a product of Christendom... whether one makes a good disciplined christian is the only question.

if one is speaking english they are a product of Christendom period...

reply to post by wildtimes


I totally agree with the first part of this post, 100%. I believe that Jesus (or any other holy figure) was trying to say exactly what I am saying, but after they die, those in control of religion twist what they say into the same old thing: dogma.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

I believe in reincarnation, Jesus even hints at this possibility within the bible. I do not believe in nothingness and blackness, those who do are just as naive as religious people in my opinion.

All humans want to reincarnate. Humans want to live forever, they pray death won't kill them, they hope God will save them. But one has to die to know God. The believed in separate self must be seen through to reveal God as presence.
The believed in separate self lives in time, he lives in past and future so spends all his time there. There is only now, this moment but humans live in a dream of separation, they are separated from God only by their imagination, by their belief in time and other.
There is only this present moment, all else is the imaginings of mind (image making).