Some questions for liberals

reply to post by AQuestion


I would hopefully have a living will that states they are to be with such a friend or someone with similar beliefs.

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Stay well, and don't change your values for anyone ever.

I don't think the Western monogamous system should be imposed on people as a prison, as it once was, but it's still the best method and system (I think) to stay healthy and raise kids.

Maybe that's my culture speaking, but so what?
My culture has done quite well.

Will check back later.

Thanks all for posting and remaining civil.

Good discussion so far!

Originally posted by theroguelion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

I did not act as if I am a redneck. A lot of white liberals get pissed when they hear people using racial slurs against blacks. Does that make them black? just.... bad example. First of all, you can't speak for the person that posted it, so claiming that "its a caricature" as his motive is pure idiocy. What, you know this guys thoughts now? What does it being a caricature have to do with anything? Why does he SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY (since obviously you can't understand this word) use rednecks as an example? Its CREATES the caricature. By the way, caricatures are known to be pretty offensive, you should know that. Kinda like... ummm doing plays in blackface. They don't do that anymore do they? hmmm I wonder why....

Buts its obvious you're a shill. I've responded to every point you have made yet you just nit pick on what points you want to respond to and do a piss poor job at that. You're the kind of person that flips the chess board after you've been checkmated and parades around as if you won. Deceiving yourself, bigot.

edit on 25-7-2012 by theroguelion because: (no reason given)

Already explained the difference between the n-word and redneck. But i'll elaborate, redneck is not a racial slur. Its not used to disparage white people. The closest you could probably get with redneck is maybe some type cultural disparagement? Since its mainly used to describe people in the south who live in rural areas. Its has no history as being used as hate speech though. I never said I was ok with caricatures, I actually criticized you for doing the same thing. You asked me why he said it and I explained it to you, lol. And now you call me a bigot? Alright, welp, you take care. Work on those issue though.

reply to post by halfoldman


Hehe, I did not practice monogamy for a long time lol. But marriage is monogomous.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by theroguelion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

I did not act as if I am a redneck. A lot of white liberals get pissed when they hear people using racial slurs against blacks. Does that make them black? just.... bad example. First of all, you can't speak for the person that posted it, so claiming that "its a caricature" as his motive is pure idiocy. What, you know this guys thoughts now? What does it being a caricature have to do with anything? Why does he SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY SPECIFICALLY (since obviously you can't understand this word) use rednecks as an example? Its CREATES the caricature. By the way, caricatures are known to be pretty offensive, you should know that. Kinda like... ummm doing plays in blackface. They don't do that anymore do they? hmmm I wonder why....

Buts its obvious you're a shill. I've responded to every point you have made yet you just nit pick on what points you want to respond to and do a piss poor job at that. You're the kind of person that flips the chess board after you've been checkmated and parades around as if you won. Deceiving yourself, bigot.

edit on 25-7-2012 by theroguelion because: (no reason given)

Already explained the difference between the n-word and redneck. But i'll elaborate, redneck is not a racial slur. Its not used to disparage white people. The closest you could probably get with redneck is maybe some type cultural disparagement? Since its mainly used to describe people in the south who live in rural areas. Its has no history as being used as hate speech though. I never said I was ok with caricatures, I actually criticized you for doing the same thing. You asked me why he said it and I explained it to you, lol. And now you call me a bigot? Alright, welp, you take care. Work on those issue though.

Nope. didnt answer why he SPECIFICALLY used rednecks as a caricature. I did not use a caricature. I stated a fact that minorities kill more people with guns than whites in america. That isn't an exagerration at all. You are saying you are okay with caricatures by taking up for the guy. I don't see you condemning him, but you are condemning me for calling him out on it. Funny. Redneck was used in this case as a slur, bottom line. Words can not oppress people, bottom line. Black people today describe themselves as 'n-word's so history is irrelevant with that word. Redneck can most definitely be used as a racial slur since it is only applied negatively to one race of people. And you still do not know this guys thoughts. So you have no way of knowing why he used it. And yes, black panthers and the like have used the word redneck as hate speech before. I've owned you at every turn.

I like how you had absolutely no response to the first line where I state that whites get mad when people say 'n-word'. I love it. Just shows how well I have owned your ass. good day

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Marriage is monogamous?
Not in big parts of Asia and Africa, and not in the Islamic world.
That is our 'Western" concept of marriage.
I live in many cultures, and in the US they're bringing in other cultures.

But even in history: how many wives did Crazy Horse have?
How many were what we would today call "transgender"?

So even in the US, monogamy is one culture's standard.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I would hopefully have a living will that states they are to be with such a friend or someone with similar beliefs.

Dear thehoneycomb,

"someone with similar beliefs" is what you said and so would I. I would want your children to be with someone with similar beliefs, not because I agree with you; but, because I respect your role as a parent. I would want the same for me and my children and for gay people too. A parents right. I raised three children, one was my stepchild. I have raised her since she was one. Her father was a piece of garbage who went to jail numerous times including for attempted murder. A real gem of a man. He even tried to have me killed because I wouldn't let him teach his child how to use drugs. GET IT? I put his child through college and never received one dime in court ordered child support. I gave her away and paid for her wedding. Am I her father?

Not all fathers are biological fathers, some of us do all the hard work and have no genetic bond. My daughter ended with me, her mother divorced me 25 years later to live a life of illusion. After that, my daughter asked me to adopt her and I gave her away at her wedding. I never bothered adopting her because I wanted her to be old enough to decide for herself and she did, she asked me to. So, what answer would I give to others. Two men are allowed to adopt a child, they spend their lives taking care of and raising that child. They die in a car crash and the child is 16. Lets put her in with a straight couple and let them them explain how bad their parents were or accept the children and don't attack the people that really put it on the line for that kid.

You should have read my others posts, it would have given you some knowledge on where I come from. I believe the greatest relationship that can be had is that between a man and a woman. Some people do not choose that relationship; they still choose to love others and cause no harm. Will I condemn them, no, I will not. Will I say that they should be placed in a politically correct and socially correct and religiously correct home, no, I will not. I will respect the wishes of the people responsible and reliably taking care of them. Peace.

Nevermind gutter stuff

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

I think these are good questions, I will answer them as a liberal who leans more towards the center, and is thus not completely loopy.

1. Having the right to bear arms is essential in a democracy. However, having some gun control laws like registering and background checks doesn't seem that unfair. Maybe even a mental health requirement, or a safety class. That said, I don't think that certain types of small arms should be made illegal.

2. A marriage is a commitment between two people, and gays that commit to be married are actually following traditional values more than gays that are on the prowl. I don't think there is anything wrong with gays adopting children and having families, either, in fact adoption is better than abortion by far. I would like to see some evidence besides superstition that gays having a family somehow negatively impacts children. I wouldn't mind too much giving people a choice though, if they want their kids to be adopted by gays or not, that seems fair.

By the way, while I have the chance to say something else controversial, I don't need to see evidence that abortion negatively impacts children - it's self-evident.

3. I am a small business owner, and I will answer your question if you give me more specifics on how it would be penalized.

4. I think that illegal immigration is a great topic for discussion. You see, the way the system is set up at the moment, it isn't really illegal - it's expected that immigrants are going to come work in our fields and provide us with cheap labor. The only problem is that politicians are too dense to actually make good immigration policy. I think if something like a guest worker program was put into effect, needless sneaking around and such wouldn't need to happen, and it would actually be safer.

Let's try to take down the lies that both parties spew, I think that sounds like a good idea. I don't know why people think they have to agree with one party or the other, the parties aren't deities for God's sake...

Originally posted by theroguelion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

Buts its obvious you're a shill.

Deal with shills the way I do, calmly answer their questions and provide them with evidence against their claims until they get bored, go away, and bother someone else. Also, stay on topic and stuff. But be really boring, this is important.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


1) The ability or option to bear arms is not a fundamental element of introducing or maintaining democracy. I'm not sure how you are interpreting the right to bear arms - do you mean a society where no one (even governing powers) can bear arms, or just the populace? There are countries that permit gun ownership even though there is no written constitutional requirement to do so (e.g. the UK).

2) Why would a man/woman marriage be called illegitimate? Even if mine was, I frankly wouldn't care who adopted them, providing the adopter was a suitable person / s to do so.

3) There are very many businessers (small and large) that are successful. What constitutes penalizing in your eyes, the term is somewhat ambiguous! Do you mean pay more tax, or have more requirements to care for staff? I think this is perfectly reasonable.

4) What? Any human being is susceptible to making a mistake, an error or the wrong decision. You can't just take one variable and blame it for the entire event - thats like me using drink driving as the example - I couldn't reasonably say that if you support alcoholic consumption, you are supporting drink driving!

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms?

I believe in the right to bear arms.

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

1. Marriage is state contract between two consenting adults.
2. Many man/woman marriages cannot produce offspring. Infertile couples, older couples, etc.
3. Your scenario about the state taking away my kids is outrageous, but I would feel 100% fine about a gay couple adopting my children. 100%.

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

Loaded question, much? LOL The assumptions contained in your questions make them a challenge to answer.

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

What additional laws did they break?

I think we need immigration reform. I don't blame people for wanting a better life for their families and fighting to get it. I would do the same.

I am seriously trying to decide when redneck became a racial slur, or even a geographical slur. I was raised in a midwest suburb, and have self identified as a redneck for about 40 years. I have been happy to know hispanic rednecks, gay rednecks, and even a gay african american redneck. Redneck is a freedom loving culture, do what you will as long as no one gets hurt, but allow me to do the same thing.

reply to post by Hawking


Good response!

reply to post by theroguelion


Bigoted liberals? Ha ha.That's an oxymoron.

>>>
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?
>>>

There are PLENTY of nations where citizens have no "right to bear arms", and many of those countries do excellent, better than the US actually If you think people need guns to "secure their rights" you think like a 5 year old kid which thinks that a punch in the face is the only way to settle a difference in opinions.

>>>
2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?
>>>

This is a confusing question because the issue here would be why MY marriage would be "illegimate"...it has nothing to do with heterosexual/gay or whatsoever...except you assume (for some reason) that gay parents must be "worse parents",,,but then you'd first have to make your case and show this is actually the case. I think there are more important issues than whether the parents are gay, and would myself prefer gay parents over "normal" parents but who are abusing or otherwise incompetent to care for their kids.

>>
3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?
>>

If i make more i can also afford to give more and it wont hurt as much since i make enough. Easy enough?

>>
4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?
>>

In your world, do only illegal immigrants cause car accidents? And..how does a car accident have anything to do with the subject of illegal immigration? So...is one of your arguments you are against illegal immigrants that there is an increased chance of car accidents or other incidents resulting in fatalities? Then i can only laugh at your failed psychological attempt/game to use something emotional/tragic and use it for the purpose of your hate for illegal immigrants. A really, really cheap trick..again makes me think you must be 10 year old or so.

And to answer your question: I would "think" in the same way as with any other accident where i'd know that a large number of people/children have been killed. The illegal immigrant/truck driver is not more guilty than whoever other person who caused such an accident under entirely different circumstances, having nothing to do with illegal immigrants at all.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by windword

 

Gay marriage, while I respect the right of people to do whatever they want to do, marriage is a vow to protect families, a family is a man woman and child.

You say you respect the right of people to do whatever they want to do, but its obvious you are against gay marriage or gay families. So..what is it?

Also..a family is not "a man, woman a child", a family is one or more parents and children where the parent(s) PROPERLY care for and raise for their children. A family can be disfunct and utterly fail, they can abuse and beat their children, neglect them or entirely fail to raise them - REGARDLESS of their sexual orientation.

While i think your example of someone taking kids away from a heterosexual couple and give it "to gays" is extremely FAR FETCHED - so i can nevertheless see it could be possible that a "normal" family (in your eyes) of man & woman could be abusive and a kid in a gay family COULD be much better off. Then i would of course favor THAT family where i know the kid is taken care of best.

1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?


Here in the UK we have no right to bear arms, indeed after the Dunblane shootings, weapon laws were tightened up to such a large extent that there is now very little gun crime in the country at all.

Having a completely unarmed general population, I don't think there is any feeling that our rights as a nation and as individuals are threatened at all. We don't need to defend ourselves from our government, the system of Democracy takes care of that for us.



2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?


Wouldn't bother me at all what other people choose to do, marriage is a vow between two people who love each other. If two men or two women want to get married? It's none of my business, if they're happy, good on them. I don't feel threatened by them at all. Life is short, people should be happy.



3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?


I consider the taxes I pay to be a fair exchange in return for the benefits supplied by my government. Police, roads, fire brigades, street lighting, hospitals, schools, libraries, benefits, the list goes on.

I went to the doctors last week and got a prescription, took it to the pharmacy and had it filled, none of this cost me a penny from my pocket. But I paid for it in the taxes I pay. I consider this a fair exchange, because I know if my company fails and I need help, I will still be able to see my doctor for free, and get my pills for free.


Now, there is a question here as to is the US taxpayer getting value for money from their taxes. And honestly I think you're probably not. But that's because your system is so incredibly badly broken, the only solution is to start voting for more independents, and stop voting for the same old same old.




4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?


We get a lot of illegal immigrants from eastern europe in this country, I do find it insane that when they break the law, we lock them up in the UK, and then deport them when their sentence is finished. THere should be some scheme whereby an illegal immigrant serves their time in their country of origin.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


So you want the world to conform to your narrow view of family.

so by your standards:

No one can adopt.

Grandparents can't raise grandchildren when the parents are unable.

A couple that is not married can't live together and raise children.

There can't be any single parent homes.

Not only have you taken away the rights of half of the United States by your primitive fear, you alienated the rest of the world while you are at it.

And you try to push your fear on others with this archaic method by claiming the gay's will come and steal your babies in the night.
Are you going after witches tomorrow?


If this is realy about family, then your definition of family eradicts all these people.

This isn't about family, because all these nuclear family advocates would be running and adopting children if it was really to protect the children.

But its not.