Some questions for liberals

1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran the truck into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break laws and kill children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

1. Most liberals are not against guns - they tend to be against high capacity assault rifles in the hands of redneck idiots. Or any other idiots for that matter

2. Why would children be taken from straight couples and given to gays? Is there any substance to this or are you just typing to see if your keys still work?

3. Not sure, I believe in a flat tax

4. Who said anyone supports illegal immigration? Everyone should have to pass citizenship tests. Especially those born in America who wish to vote in a general election

Now a question: Why are conservatives all for personal freedoms, yet they wish to interfere with who we can marry and what we can do with our own bodies?

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

1. How do we secure rights today? Gays are fighting for rights now and society is beginning to come around. When women and African Americans fought for rights they did it with protests and signs. None of the aforementioned groups used guns to secure their equal rights in society. Thats an asinine question.

2.This question does not make any sense. What does having your children taken away and having your marriage called illegitimate have to do with gay marriage?

3.If by penalized you mean pay the appropriate amount of money for my income bracket, I would gladly pay and look for ways to improve my business model and get profits even higher.

4. Hmmmm, I need more details about this question. The truck was carrying immigrants, but was the driver American? Because if so, the immigrants are in no way responsible for the accident.

reply to post by Hawking


Ok so you think you can secure the rights of people and a nation with only handguns? (ill leave the redneck comment for someone else)

Do whatever you want with your own body. But keep your hands off of me my family and liberty.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

Dear thehoneycomb,

I am not a liberal; but, I would still like to respond.

1. Gandhi showed us how to be successful at that. Peaceful noncompliance stops everything.
2. There is marriage recognized by God and there is a government contract that we call marriage. The government contract should be open to all consenting adults in order to give equal protection and equal rights under the government law. By the way, I am straight and a preacher and would not perform a gay marriage, I have the freedom to my choices also. As far as my kids go, I would expect them to be placed in a family similar to ours. Would you expect the children of a gay couple to go with gays or straights?
3. The more you benefit from the country, the more you should contribute. Pretty simple, we all pay for roads and infrastructure. A successful business is successful in this economy because it benefits from that infrastructure. If you have an internet business this is even more true as everyone's taxes went to pay for the creation of the internet. Just look up Arpnet.
4. Why do you assume liberals or anyone is in favor of illegal immigration and your example is very weak. A bus load of Christians takes a bus to Disneyland and gets in a crash and everyone dies. Do you still feel the same about people taking trips to Disneyland? I think we can address poor driving apart from being here illegally. We have laws and we should enforce them or change them. Having said that, if you were a dirt poor Mexican living in the landfill around Mexico city, would you try and come here?

My answers may differ than yours'; but, my Christianity comes before my politics.

reply to post by thehoneycomb

1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms?

There are innumerable ways, depending on the circumstances. Read some history.

2. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

What an idiotic question. Are you saying this has happened in real life?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

Nobody likes paying taxes, but decent, intelligent people recognize that they have social responsibilities.

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

Nobody supports illegal immigration. Some people want to legalize it, but that's different.

Now please answer this question, please: are conservatives stupid because they are conservatives, or are they conservative because they are stupid?

Originally posted by Hawking

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran the truck into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break laws and kill children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

1. Most liberals are not against guns - they tend to be against high capacity assault rifles in the hands of redneck idiots. Or any other idiots for that matter

edit on 25-7-2012 by Hawking because: (no reason given)

What is the deal with you bigoted liberals? When has a "redneck" ever committed a mass murder? I'm sick and tired of this crap. Oh yeah 'n-word' is a racist slur but redneck isnt? To be completely factual here, white men from the south kill FAR fewer people than any minority with guns. And we have much more people with much more guns. I'm sick of this bigoted nonsense. I just don't understand where you get this perverted world view that rednecks like to shoot people. It simply doesn't happen, and I'm sick and #ing tired of you people using these slurs to downgrade my heritage. Why is this type of bigotry even tolerated on this forum? I know it wouldn't be in the media.

reply to post by AQuestion


Hi aquestion,

Not going to respond to all things obviously. But I would like to point out that a gay couple can not have children.

Originally posted by theroguelion

Originally posted by Hawking

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran the truck into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break laws and kill children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

1. Most liberals are not against guns - they tend to be against high capacity assault rifles in the hands of redneck idiots. Or any other idiots for that matter

edit on 25-7-2012 by Hawking because: (no reason given)

What is the deal with you bigoted liberals? When has a "redneck" ever committed a mass murder? I'm sick and tired of this crap. Oh yeah 'n-word' is a racist slur but redneck isnt? To be completely factual here, white men from the south kill FAR fewer people than any minority with guns. And we have much more people with much more guns. I'm sick of this bigoted nonsense. I just don't understand where you get this perverted world view that rednecks like to shoot people. It simply doesn't happen, and I'm sick and #ing tired of you people using these slurs to downgrade my heritage. Why is this type of bigotry even tolerated on this forum? I know it wouldn't be in the media.

Ummm you self identified yourself as a idiot redneck so clearly you think you fit in with the stereotype. If you did not you would not be so mad. Work on your self esteem and you'll feel better. Not all people who live in the south are considered rednecks or consider themselves rednecks. Its one of those caricature things like how you just painted every minority as being dangerous with a gun.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by theroguelion

Originally posted by Hawking

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran the truck into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break laws and kill children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

1. Most liberals are not against guns - they tend to be against high capacity assault rifles in the hands of redneck idiots. Or any other idiots for that matter

edit on 25-7-2012 by Hawking because: (no reason given)

What is the deal with you bigoted liberals? When has a "redneck" ever committed a mass murder? I'm sick and tired of this crap. Oh yeah 'n-word' is a racist slur but redneck isnt? To be completely factual here, white men from the south kill FAR fewer people than any minority with guns. And we have much more people with much more guns. I'm sick of this bigoted nonsense. I just don't understand where you get this perverted world view that rednecks like to shoot people. It simply doesn't happen, and I'm sick and #ing tired of you people using these slurs to downgrade my heritage. Why is this type of bigotry even tolerated on this forum? I know it wouldn't be in the media.

Ummm you self identified yourself as a idiot redneck so clearly you think you fit in with the stereotype. If you did not you would not be so mad. Work on your self esteem and you'll feel better. Not all people who live in the south are considered rednecks or consider themselves rednecks. Its one of those caricature things like how you just painted every minority as being dangerous with a gun.

I self identified SPECIFICALLY as a white man from the South. Read the post. Black people get mad when you call them 'n-word's, whether they fit the stereotype or not so your first and second sentences are debunked. Third & fourth sentences = I live here, I am obviously aware of this especially since I do not consider myself to be a redneck. How did I paint minorities as dangerous with guns? I stated a FACT. The guy I was replying to did not state any fact, he just called rednecks idiots and implied that they are dangerous with guns. You sir, are very obtuse.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Hi aquestion,

Not going to respond to all things obviously. But I would like to point out that a gay couple can not have children.

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

Dear thehoneycomb,

Actually they can and do, they adopt and the fact that they can was pointed out in your question. I am not saying they should or should be able to adopt, they do. In the future it will be even easier, there was an article recently how scientists managed to create two babies using the genes of two women and one man. Gays will be able to have gene splicing to create children in the future that is science fact and you can search it on the net or here on ATS.

reply to post by AQuestion


OK but Im not talking about what if or the future.

I am talking about the state taking your children and then adopting them to gays, how would you feel about that?

Sorry, not trying to be harsh with you.

OK, it's understood that these questions are mainly for a US audience, and I can't say I'm "liberal" (just because I'm gay), but I'll express my feelings at least on one point:

1. Gun control.
In 1993 we had the St. James Church Massacre, where a mainly (but not exclusively) white church was attacked by a group called APLA (the Azanian People's Liberation Army).
They stormed the church, threw grenades and fired into the congregation.
One man fired back with a .38 and the culprits fled.
They also did not attack the church with petrol-bombs after the response, as they had initially planned.
I knew a person who survived that attack because of the armed church-goer, and despite all the reconciliation with the terrorists, I've never owned a firearm (the laws are pretty extreme these days), but I always feel safer with somebody who has a legal firearm.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now if a person with a gun would have been in that cinema, I think they could have stopped this attack.

So yes, I think disarming good people puts the bad guys at a major advantage.
They will be armed, legally or not.

2. Marriage - our President Jacob Zuma has several wives.
Customary marriage and polygamy is legal.
Gay marriage is legal since 2006.
With so many cultures in our country, marriage is a personal issue.
Nobody can come and say marriage must be this or that.
In many non-Western cultures: if you can pay for the bride-price and support the wife, it's nobody's business.

3. Business and illegal foreigners - we have much xenophobia in SA. A lot of it is focused around business. Foreigners get ahead quickly because they pool their resources and are good at business, however they can also get ahead through corruption and bribery.
They are not bound by our restrictive labor laws, because they are illegal, and that does upset local business people.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
1. How would you secure the rights of a nation and of individuals without the right to bear arms? Would you just hold signs up and ask for democracy? Would you voice your opinions on the internet hoping that somebody who has the power would listen?

I may be sorry for responding to this thread, but here goes.

I consider myself pretty darn liberal, and have no problem with people having guns. I would like to see more oversight in who's buying and how much.

But, let me ask you this, do you really think that politicians are kept honest, knowing that the population is armed? Are guns the way you would voice your political opinions and support for democracy?

2. Marriage is an vow between a man and a woman and marriage laws are their to protect families, which only a man and woman can create. If you feel strongly about allowing gays to marry, how would you feel about your own children if your marriage was called illegitimate and your children were declared by the state and adopted by gay parents?

Marriage is not only about children, it's about love and devotion. When 2 people are married, they are considered family, not because of children, but by law. Marriage allows for certain legal rights, including adoption. If my children were in danger, and were in state protection, I wouldn't care if the people taking care of my kids were gay.

Limiting marriage to a man and a women will not stop birth out of wedlock, spousal abuse or child abuse. The only thing it will protect is the definition of a family. And a name is only a name, a name isn't a relationship.

Are you opposed to gay teachers, nurses or doctors, or social workers and counselors in an public house setting? Do you aim to keep gays away from children altogether?

3. If you were to start a small business and have it be successful, how would you feel about being penalized for your success?

To those who receive much, much is expected.

4. The other day a pickup truck carrying 23 illegal immigrants into the state of Texas ran into a couple trees killing 14 people including small children. If you support illegal immigration, how do you feel about illegal immigrants who come into this country illegally of course that break additional laws resulting in the death of people and small children?

edit on 25-7-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

Who is in favor of illegal immigration?

What if the accident was caused by a couple of teens who were ditching school and drinking?

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by Hawking

 

Ok so you think you can secure the rights of people and a nation with only handguns? (ill leave the redneck comment for someone else)

Do whatever you want with your own body. But keep your hands off of me my family and liberty.

I completely agree, keep your hands off me, my family (whoever that may consist of) and my liberty(whatever I choose to do that doesn't harm others)

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by AQuestion

 

OK but Im not talking about what if or the future.

I am talking about the state taking your children and then adopting them to gays, how would you feel about that?

Sorry, not trying to be harsh with you.

Dear thehoneycomb,

I did not find your words harsh and I believe I answered it in my first response. I would expect my children to be placed with a family as similar to mine as possible. Part of the reason for this is because even if your children are taken away, often they can be returned to you later and I would want them to stay in a similar situation. The same would be true for children that had gay parents and the same reason applies. I would not want to have to put Christian children in a Muslim house or Muslim children in a Christian house.

Please take the time to answer my questions also. I don't know if you are a Christian conservative, a fiscal conservative or a social conservative and by answering my questions I will be able to understand where you are coming from better and we can see how consistent we both are.

reply to post by halfoldman


1. I agree.

2. Not so sure, but in Africa the dynamics may vary.

reply to post by Hawking


Well where to begin......hhhmmmm.......well considering the redneck has probably been actually using his gun all his life, hell I can't honestly think of many better types to be in control of a firearm. ( BTW just as a side note I am a redneck you racist )

I always thought that libs were supposed to be all sensitive and stuff. Instead they insult me and mine for no reason except to try to make a point that has no point except in their fantasy perfect world they live in.

reply to post by Hawking


agreed

reply to post by windword


No I don't expect politicians to be honest.

Gay marriage, while I respect the right of people to do whatever they want to do, marriage is a vow to protect families, a family is a man woman and child.

I do not agree that the state should be able to take a child without a court conviction of neglect or abuse. But thats not the way it is. Anyways, if a gay couple can marry and adopt the same rights then technically speaking the state could take your children away and adopt to gay parents.