Is there any real counter argument to the Conspiracy theorists of 9/11

Originally posted by lambros56
Maybe to you, this makes the official theory true.
You`re too naive.

GET REAL !!!!!!

What excuse do you use to deny the evidence? Go ahead, I'll listen.

reply to post by crawdad1914


Also, that buckling you are talking about on the upper portion happens on the SOUTH side of the building, which is behind the view of the camera. I have looked at the videos, and you can see that portion of the tower wobbling during the collapse, kind of like in the simulation.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by crawdad1914
So the facade itself did not buckle at all in spite of the the interior framework ripping away from the facade itself.

And some say "truthers" will believe anything!

Edit: take a look at the NIST simulations again and notice the buckling taking place on the upper portion of the building. Again, somehow the facade itself amazingly falls without nary a buckling effect whatsoever.

edit on 23-7-2012 by crawdad1914 because: clarification of post

Count the floors of windows in the video. I dare you.

The buckling happened way lower than the recorded picture shows.

edit on 23-7-2012 by Varemia because: clarity

Windows counted. Staying on topic , we are talking about the upper portion buckling as purported by NIST The video shows a clear shot of the upper portion of WT-7, about 16 to 20 floors or so. The Video of the actual event shows a clean and straight fall downwards falling into its footprint in spite of the buckling of the upper portions framework as is reputed in the NIST simulation. The simulation clearly is intended to convey major buckling on both sides of the building. It would not mattter what side the real video was taken, the buckling should have been evident regardless of what side of the building was being filmed.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by crawdad1914

 

Also, that buckling you are talking about on the upper portion happens on the SOUTH side of the building, which is behind the view of the camera. I have looked at the videos, and you can see that portion of the tower wobbling during the collapse, kind of like in the simulation.

See response above.

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by lambros56
Maybe to you, this makes the official theory true.
You`re too naive.

GET REAL !!!!!!

What excuse do you use to deny the evidence? Go ahead, I'll listen.

You believe in the official theory.
Show me the evidence in THAT theory !
Go ahead........i`ll listen.

reply to post by crawdad1914


I take it then that you don't understand simulations at all. Ok, cool. Now that we know that, we can move on.

Originally posted by lambros56

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by lambros56
Maybe to you, this makes the official theory true.
You`re too naive.

GET REAL !!!!!!

What excuse do you use to deny the evidence? Go ahead, I'll listen.

You believe in the official theory.
Show me the evidence in THAT theory !
Go ahead........i`ll listen.

That was a stupid reply. You should feel bad.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by crawdad1914

 

I take it then that you don't understand simulations at all. Ok, cool. Now that we know that, we can move on.

Your's was indeed, the expected "response".

reply to post by Varemia

That was a stupid reply. You should feel bad.

Why should I feel bad ?
I can see through a concocted story.
You obviously believe the NIST theory.........that`s sad.

reply to post by thegameisup

I am originally from the Middle East and I have lived in the US while doing my University Studies as a Civil Engineer and For me the 911 Attack was a Crime against humanity no doubt about it .
When a Major Crime like that happen , we all hurry to Punish who ever carried out this Horrible Act to carry out Justice to the Victims and to Protect the National Security of the Country , but also for a normal intelligent Government we also ask why this Attack was Carried out Against Us and what Drive who ever did this Attack to do such criminal act .
Unfortunately in the USA , Government and Media and Propaganda went only after Punishing who ever did this Horrible Act but no body said why these People Committed Suicide and Killed over 3000 Human life with them , that if we want to believe the official version of the US Gov. that the Al Qaeda carried out this Attack ; but of course there many many who doubt this Version of the US Gov. and say that it was a Conspiracy from within the Government .
I say that it was both , and you ask me what you mean ????
I mean that Al Qaeda carried out the Attack , but the Plot of this Attack was discovered by others that Claim that they are Real Close Friends to the USA , but instead of informing the US Gov. to stop this Attack , they let it happen because it helps their Cause and this Attack was carried out by the Qaeda against the US because of them .
You ask me who is this Claim Best Friend to the US and to the American People but in REALITY HE IS The Worst ENEMY the USA ever Know ??????
This REAL ENEMY is ISRAEL , and the Mossad ( The Secret Service of Israel ) was ordered to Capitalize on this Tragedy of the American People to Benefit Israel instead of informing their Claimed Best Friends .
I know you will hurry up and say , Ohhhh look at that Person he is attacking the Jewish People and he is Anti-Semitic , if you believe so , you really do not know any thing about Democracy and Freedom of Speach and you are a Racist but you really do not know it . And for the other please carry on and check out all the proofs I will list you .

A - Check out on the Net about the 5 Dancing Israelis on the day of 911 .
These Israeli Journalist , but intact they are Mossad agents were waiting with professional cameras on top of their White Van for the First Attack to Happen ( I mean for the first plane to Hit ) to document it and when the first plane have hit , they were DANCING and CLAPPING out of Happiness and Joy . Thanks for a real good US Citizens they have called the NY Police and the News went on all the Networks that NY Police have Caught up with some of the Terrorists with their White Van only to Find out later on , Ohhhhhh they turned out to be Israeli Journalist Friends to the USA ????????????? Are we so so so so so so so STUPID ???????????

B - Check out the call on 911 to the New Jersey Police by a caller and the conversation is registered at the Police and some it were aired on the Networks that a Palestinian Bomber is going to Explode the Holland Tunnel , so the NY and New Jersey Police took this call very serious and they have put Police Protection on all the Tunnels and Bridges Going to Manhattan and Guess what they STOP and ARREST ???? Another Group of Israelis in Two White Vans , One is FULL of EXPLOSIVES and the other One to make their Get Away after they have parked the Van Full of Explosives on the Washington Bridge to Explode it . These Seven Israelis were Arrested for 72 Days and were deported and released to the Israelis on a Immigration Technicalities .

Here I asked you , if those 7 Israelis Mossad Agents and the other 4 Israelis Photographer Journalists were Arab Muslims where they would be today ????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

Can anybody Answer me ???????????

If you Find out that your Real Close Close Intimate Friend is in Reality a Professional Killer , a Thief , a Racist , do not Respect any Human Rights , a Real Terrorist and has been deceiving you for year and years , what would you do ???????????????????? Believe all the US President and Congress Man and Politician in the USA has Discovered that but no Body Can and Has the Courage to Stand Up to that Enemy ( Israel and it Lobby in the State APAC ) because they would Destroy him Politically .............

I do not think the 2 Towers and the others were to come down only by the Hits of the Planes , I think as they wanted to Blow Up the Washington Bridge , they had put Demolition Explosives in those Towers to make sure that they Come Down Totally Demolished and to Maximize the Number of Victims and Blame the Qaeda for all of it instead of Unraveling the Killer Plot of Al Qaeda before it Happen .

And you know What the Qaeda Carried out this Attack because of the Unconditional Aids of the USA to Israel and that is the REAL Question that No BODY Has Asked !!

reply to post by Dinogur

You just stepped in a pile my friend.
Bottom line is, regardless of what truthers say.
What ever debunkers/skeptics (or in some cases, complete dufuss trollers) have to say.
There is plenty of evidence to the eye with no dog in the fight to call foul.
Neither have proven anything.
Calling someone a crackpot does not constitute a winning argument.
Calling someone a shill...same.
Even if both shoes fit.
It is circular....you know, like a snake eating it's own tail.......

I think there is more evidence in favour of the "truthers" and "conspiracy theorists" than there is to prove what the government gave as the explanation.

The fact that only 10% of people actually saw and heard a 2nd plane.
The way that it was reported live (by this I mean the way the folk on the news channels somehow had all these facts just minutes after it happened and made it sound as if they had rehearsed it.)
The number of references to the event happening beforehand by the media.
The fact that for I think it was for 3 months before 9/11, almost every night trucks were captured on CCTV parking outside and going in to the twin towers at around 3am with large crates (possibly explosives?) for a couple of hours at a time.
Also watch the collapse of both towers and you'll see many exlplosions in the building several levels below the part of the building that is actually collapsing.

Oh and lets not forget the pentagon. The supposed "aircraft" that crashed in to the side of the building left just a 5 meter hole in the wall, when the type of plane they said hit the building had a diameter of I think 38 meters (not sure exactly)
Lets also not forget that many of the alleged hijackers later turned up alive in their home countries.
And 1 more thing I need to mention is that in order to have hit the pentagon at that particular angle the pilot would have had to have been flying at around 20 feet off the ground for a mile, this is near impossible for the best pilots let alone an amatuer.

I could go on and on but I think thats enough proof for now.

reply to post by Dinogur


There's NO real evidence.

There's a million debunked theories, and a million more unprovable and contradictory theories.

So many people that believe the 9/11 Truther stuff are simply parroting what someone said on YouTube or on some blog... it's the same lack of critical thinking that makes people believe the lies of the MSM.

I have tried, honestly tried, for years, to find a provable or undebunked 9/11 conspiracy, and have yet found none.

So much of what Truthers considered to be "I'll argue til I die" fact in 2002-03 is now seen as ludicrous by today's Truthers. The difference is not that the evidence was ever any better, but that new shiny theories have come along and replaced the old ones.

I have good friends that are Truthers, so I am able to discuss this without fighting, and am able to with an open mind, investigate new theories, but so far, nothing I've seen claimed as fact by the Truthers has been proven to be true, and much of it is complete BS.

That's a sincere response, not meant to provoke any arguments or attacks... hopefully no one is offended or feels the need to call me names, etc.

reply to post by Alfie1


Of course i am a Truther, Why? Because the official government reports make no sense at all. Why did only FEMA conduct an official investigation, why didnt they let the NYPD, or a major group of Engineers conduct the investigation with them?

FEMA responds directly to the President and if 9/11 is what President Bush wanted then he would have also been the one who allowed certain bits and pieces of the truth to come out.

How come the CIA, FBI, DIA or the NSA Possibly the Best organizations in the world regarding gathering information and foreign intelligence not see this comming?

Originally posted by yorkshirelad

And off the top of my head.......
1. Fire damage (radiated heat) can weaken structures and then they collapse DUH!
2. And popping concrete structures as each floor collapses do so silently...DUH!
3. It's called heat from the FIRE not the impact .. DUH
4. Actually the towers DID withstand the collision, both of them did. What they didn't withstand was the susbsequent inferno inside the building as all combustable materials burned and weakened the internal structure. Ironically enough the external skeleton held them together as the internals collapsed. But let's not let that wee nugget spoil a good conspiracy shall we. Let's treat the towers as if they were concrete cooling towers that tend to collapse at a slight angle......DUH

The ONLY evidence for an internal conspiracy is interpretation of selected pictures and videos. Some of which could be used to prove ultimate proof of UFO's !! He says sarcastically....

So a fire on 6 floors made the all the floors below, not affected by heat collapse?

The steel beams were designed to take a load of up to 2000%, so how do a small amount of floors annihilate the majority of the building? Especially when no steel framed building had collapsed due to fire before 9/11, even though many high rise buildings had burnt for way longer?

Physics and past recorded fires seem to go out the window on 9/11. Where is the logic in your thinking?

Because NIST tells you that means it must be true yeah?! Pull the other one, NIST have been caught lying on video, how can you trust what they say?

Originally posted by thegameisup
So a fire on 6 floors made the all the floors below, not affected by heat collapse?

The steel beams were designed to take a load of up to 2000%, so how do a small amount of floors annihilate the majority of the building? Especially when no steel framed building had collapsed due to fire before 9/11, even though many high rise buildings had burnt for way longer?

Physics and past recorded fires seem to go out the window on 9/11. Where is the logic in your thinking?

Because NIST tells you that means it must be true yeah?! Pull the other one, NIST have been caught lying on video, how can you trust what they say?

That is suggesting that a collapsed floor will somehow act in a completely different dimension than the building around it. The damage from Tower 1 affected the overall stability and safety of Building 7. The subsequent fires still took 7 hours before a local collapse started, evidenced by the penthouse collapsing. Then, very quickly, the rest of the building collapsed as a result.

reply to post by Dinogur


To further illustrate what I have been saying I went to this site below and extracted a few frames from the Naudet clip, enlarged them, joined them together in one pic and added some arrows and notes, have a look...

Naudet "9/11" DVD Plane Crash Slideshow Site Link:





The left hand image shows a clear isolated "bump" on the right where the 'wing tip' would be in an impact, complete with its own little separate shadow. Correct? Look directly under the black arrowhead etc.

One isolated bump with its own isolated shadow.

The two red arrows show a separate shadow each and the two yellow arrows show there's a corridor of sun and "sunny" UNDAMAGED building face between the two separate shadows.

I claim and have claimed that that is "IMPOSSIBLE!"

Why is it impossible? Simple.

You see there is a lot of wing on a 767 where that sunny corridor is, in fact, right in that location there is a right engine.

So not only is there an engine in this location of the wing on a 767 but the wing in that location is larger and heavier than out at the tip because it has to support that engine.

But what do we get when we really look at the video? We get a sunny corridor between two separate shadows where a heavier piece of wing and AN ENGINE should be (also impacting the building, even before the wing tips etc.) and there's no way we should get that AT ALL (the "sunny" corridor) if this is the video of a 767 impacting the North Tower.

NO WAY AT ALL.

A little later on in frames the separate damage "bumps" join up and cause an underlying continuous shadow that the camera shows. It is my contention the camera shows what is there, when the bumps join up there is a continuous shadow seen, when the bumps are separate there are also separate shadows etc.

But the separate shadows and bumps occur in an earlier frame and this proves that a wing of a 767 aircraft did not make the right wing gash.

In Points:

1. The earlier frame shows at least two distinct damage bumps with their own distinct shadows.

2. Between these two shadows is sun and a sunny corridor of undamaged building face.

3. In this sunny corridor of undamaged building face there should be instead, a heavier piece of wing than the right wing tip AND a RIGHT ENGINE.

4. Due to the design of a 767's wing the right engine and right engine wing area is actually AHEAD of the wing tips on a nose in approach, therefore there should be damage occurring in the sunny corridor BEFORE you see damage at the right wing tip.

5. The camera shows a continuous shadow when the separate damage bumps "join up" and just as well, show separate shadows under the separate bumps when the bumps are prior to joining. I have no reason to believe that the camera wouldn't show a shadow if one was there or wouldn't show engine damage on the face of the tower in the "sunny" corridor of undamaged building face, if in fact there was an engine and a wing there to be recorded.

6. What was recorded proves beyond doubt that the right wing gash on the North Tower wasn't made by the wing of a 767 aircraft.


Cheers

Originally posted by Infi8nity

OMG its still standing

I do not fell like digging it up but on the firemans radio you can hear them say they got most of the fire out. WTC 7 fire was small compared to other steal buildings witch have not fell from larger fires.

The FIRES IN wtc 7 NOT BAD





Well lets look at some FACTS re the tower above in your youtube link.

Official Name Al Tayer Tower
Type building
Status Completed
Country United Arab Emirates
City Dubai
Street Address Sheikh Zayed Road
Building Function residential
Structural Material concrete

WELL what do you know its a CONCRETE FRAME not steel YOU guys as so caught up in trying to make the 9/11 event a conspiracy that YOU dont yes DON'T have the common sense to look at the buildings you compare them with.

NOW you go away and find another 110 floor steel framed building of tube in tube design that has been hit by an aircraft at high speed and has went on fire and has NOT COLLAPSED when you find that then come back

Originally posted by thegameisup

So a fire on 6 floors made the all the floors below, not affected by heat collapse?

The steel beams were designed to take a load of up to 2000%, so how do a small amount of floors annihilate the majority of the building? Especially when no steel framed building had collapsed due to fire before 9/11, even though many high rise buildings had burnt for way longer?

Physics and past recorded fires seem to go out the window on 9/11. Where is the logic in your thinking?

Because NIST tells you that means it must be true yeah?! Pull the other one, NIST have been caught lying on video, how can you trust what they say?

The only way to defend the OS is to claim that the WTC had a faulty design and construction using inferior steel. All three buildings. But 4, 5 and 6 were built the RIGHT way.

It's a wonder they stood for 30 years.

It's ridiculous, and it really is grade school physics.

And yet we're morons if we don't believe the lies, when this government has been lying about everything for 100 years.

911 was by no means the first false flag and will not be the last as long as this cabal is in power.

The only problem is that none of us may survive the next one... or the planet for that matter.

But these Falsers will defend them to their death anyway.

It's a no-win situation for them, and they should be pitied.

reply to post by Varemia


how on earth can that be silly...It you are saying the OS is true then show people how it is true....instead of just stating it is so.....NOw that was silly on your part...

Also just saying someone does not know how simulations work...then show us how they work...they are based on data entered into the physics engine...then it is produced...if the figures entered are wrong then the simulation is wrong....If the simulation fails in being anywhere similar to what is it to be represented in real then the simulation should be abandon...When you go through flight training and you use a simulator do you think they just go ...ok that is close enough...I think you do not have a clue how simulations work....it is in the name itself...It simulates real....

Sorry verm these are some of the most clueless statements put forward by you....your what 22yrs old....and you are presenting like you have any idea...Don't worry lad you will come to learn some things naturally through experience.