Is there any real counter argument to the Conspiracy theorists of 9/11

Now the title of this thread may seem like i am a believer of the MSM, and want to rout the conspiracy theorists, but i do myself believe that 9/11 was an inside job to propagate a war in-order to achieve whatever greater goal the TPTB have.

But my friend started arguing against me saying that conspiracy theorists like my self have no evidence that 9/11 was a conspiracy. Now other than the fact that he believes every single word that said out to the public by the MSM, and believes that the MSM could not ever lie to us, or that fact that the "GREAT" United States Governemnt could not in any-way-shape-or-form kill its own people to get an agenda accomplished (even after i pointed out Operation Northwoods). He blatantly told me to my face that people like me (conspiracy theorists) should all be fined or imprisoned by the U.S. Government it self, for propagating such lies against it (the us govt). He believes that if i have no evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, that it wasnt and that the MSM was right.

It baffled me that a person could be so oblivious to the crimes that occur right in front of his own eyes. How could some one be so brain-washed...

But what real evidence do we have that 9/11 was a inside job, or orchestrated by our government?

I am simply looking for an answer and if anyone could point me out to a thread/s with evidence then it would be greatly appreciated, or you can tell me below either or works.

Originally posted by Dinogur
i do myself believe that 9/11 was an inside job

Well, you obviously have some reasons why you think it was an inside job, if you'd care to share with us those reasons, so we know why you think it was an inside job, then we'll know the stuff you are already aware of, and can point you to some threads of interest that you may not know about.

It can be a tough one to navigate with so many conflicting stories around. The best evidence I have found so far is 9/11 Blueprint for Truth.

Google Video Link

reply to post by thegameisup


Well i know that:

1. Building 7 collapsed without impact of any airplane
2. First Responder - Firefighters heard a set of explosives go off during/right before the towers collapsed
3. There were pools of molten steel on the ground of Ground Zero, in no way could have an airplane impact caused that.
4. Many Engineers and Architects have said that the Towers could have with-stood many airplane collisions due to their steel-concrete reinforced skeleton

thats all i can think off of the top of m head

reply to post by Dinogur

But what real evidence do we have that 9/11 was a inside job, or orchestrated by our government?

None!

The entire truther movement is based on smoke and mirrors.

reply to post by Dinogur


Larry Silverstein did in fact say the words "pull it"

The BBC did in fact report the collapse of WTC 7 20min before it collapsed.

And at about 6 sec into the collapse, WTC 7 did in fact, fall at a rate equal to free fall acceleration for 2.3 seconds.

That's it, 10 years and those are the only "True facts" the Truth Movement has managed to gather.

reply to post by Dinogur


I took the time out to provide you with a link to a very informative short video. It will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition.

www.youtube.com...

Its so obvious, all you have to do is watch the footage. Most people dont analyse what they experience, especially when it comes to trama.
I will start with the basics. Building 7, a 47 floor STEAL building that collapsed at FREE FALL SPEED in its own FOOT PRINT supposedly from some minor fires.
By the time the building collapsed the firemen had reported that (this is documented) most of the fires wear out. The Government kept footage from the public. I think it was 2 years ago that this video was released its at 0:59 seconds



You can see the top of the building fall in before the rest of the building falls. They do this in demolition.

Take a look at some of these videos
www.youtube.com...

9/11 was the first time fires ever brought down a steal building. 3 steal buildings in one day.
Sky scrapers can burn for weeks with out giving and they have. How can you get away with building a steal building that falls within a hr of fire in a city like new york?
Take a look at this photo
thewebfairy.com...

This is building 6, this was caused by the towers falling. Its still standing after all that? OF COARSE ITS A STEAL BUILDING!! This building was closer to the towers then building 7 and building 7 fell from some small fire? Building 7 held a 1000's of important investigation documents that would have held multiple company's responsible for serious crimes. Some of those being documents witch would prove eron was causing black outs to save money or the relationship between Citigroup and the WorldCom bankruptcy.



Their is so much evidence and this is only the small stuff.
If you plan on confronting your friend again I would advise you to be fully equip with a large arsenal of undeniable facts. No theory's, only tell him what you can prove. At first he will not listen but in the end, it gets drilled in.You cannot denied the facts.

This is a quick summary by Mr. Jim Marrs, probably the most understandable and believable conspiracy theory investigators around:



Ten minutes is all it takes. Have your friend watch it and then have it explain the many discrepancies and stupidities the official story has.

Also, you should get his book. It takes every detail and puts it all together: www.amazon.com...

The entire truther movement is based on smoke and mirrors.

reply to post by samkent

Alrighty then. If you cannot see the obvious truth and obfuscation from our government, then what you're smoking was first cut up on a mirror.

focus on the money. its easy to trace.

start with a google search for "insider trading before 911". look up the insurance contract silverjoo signed right before 911. defense contracts for halliburton. there are plenty of interesting companies with interesting people at the top who benefited from this day.

the money has always been the best evidence. I wish the truth movement would focus more on this. it cant be debated.

Originally posted by Infi8nity

I will start with the basics. Building 7, a 47 floor STEAL building that collapsed at FREE FALL SPEED in its own FOOT PRINT supposedly from some minor fires.

Here is a link to WTC7 showing the minor fires and how it went virtually unscathed from the collapsing towers.

www.youtube.com...

There is waaaaaaaayyyy too much evidence pointing at ---->INSIDE JOB

From what I HAVE SEEN their is no evidence that points to DIRECTLY to the USA Government. But the Governement did know about it months before it was supposed to happen, fahrenheit 9/11is grate movie that touches on this. The movie made it seem as if bush is just a retarded monkey but he is a actor and knew every thing. Willingly made him self look dumb so that you would under estimate him.
They could have stopped it as well but did not.

(it has been a while since i discussed this topic so I do not know the details i used to, so dont mistake my lack of not knowing names as uncredible.)
The organization (forgot the name) witch is responsible for taking out air planes for situations like this did nothing. In fact 2 weeks before 9/11 Dick Cheney forcefully took over the organization. Dick Cheney gave the orders to make the fighter pilots stand down. He let them fly into the buildings knowingly. Keep in mind Dick was vice president.

I dont remember the exact details but it was said that all 3 towers wear evacuated before 9/11. Many people speculate that this could have been the perfect time to set explosives.

Their is defiantly something much bigger going on hear. Most people only know about the simpsions depiction of 9/11
images.sodahead.com...
But their are 100's. Just google 9/11 predicted in media. ITS CRAZY. The most crazy one was the xfile episode witch depicted terrorist high jacking a plane and crashing it into a building. In the episode it showed it was a false flag operation conducted by politicians to bring in air security

Take a look at the 20 dollar bill witch was printed before 9/11.
www.milaircomms.com...
www.milaircomms.com...
Then the 5,10,50 and 100 dollar bills witch came out after 9/11 depicted the towers falling like a flip book.
This is more evidence that people with in our Government knew this was going to happen.

Illuminati card game witch came out before 9/11
2.bp.blogspot.com...

Bill Cooper Or William cooper predicted 9/11 months before it happened. The man was assassinated in front of his house.

After this alex jones said try to high jack his predictions



Was it our Government?
I dont know but they sure did help out.

This type of evidence does not do well when trying to convince others(blind people), its more the cherry on top. So dont start with this stuff, hit them when you find a braking point.

reply to post by Dinogur

Well i know that: 1. Building 7 collapsed without impact of any airplane

Did you know that building 7 (like all of the WTC buildings) is built on marshland/swamp. This single fact seems to elude most(all) conspiracy theorists wrt 9/11.

2. First Responder - Firefighters heard a set of explosives go off during/right before the towers collapsed

What sound does a lump of concrete make when it hits the ground whilst traveling at terminal velocity?

Is it possible that rubble falling from within the either WTC buildings could have fallen down elevator shafts?

What sort of influence would the elevator shaft have on the acoustics of such a sound?

If there were explosives, why didn't any of the firemen/police/paramedics find evidence of such. As an engineer, I have seen/sifted rubble after controlled explosions.....there are always bits of det-cord, paper and det-joiners left after an explosion. The firefighters are trained to spot such things when working in emergency situations.

This should ring alarm bells if you think the government would instigate 9/11....Firefighters do their job because they are naturally good people who do what is right. Such people would be vocal about something like explosives if they were found in the WTC's rubble piles.

3. There were pools of molten steel on the ground of Ground Zero, in no way could have an airplane impact caused that.

This is a pet peeve of mine as it demonstrates the lack of knowledge pertaining to matters of metalurgy/blacksmithing/engineering.

How do I manage to melt steel on a coal fired forge if the coal will only burn at x degrees celcius?

If you look at the theory....it is impossible using coal.....Yet I can melt steel on a coal forge easily.

4. Many Engineers and Architects have said that the Towers could have with-stood many airplane collisions due to their steel-concrete reinforced skeleton

Well, I'm an engineer and I disagree (before you jump down my throat..yes I have looked at the building design and foundation specifications extensively...and then some). The WTC1/2 buildings were built in a unique fashion using techniques that were considered pioneering at the time. The WTC1/2 both have a lattice based steel frame that utilises geometric strength to allow it to be built with far less weight than the traditional reo-concrete that was used at the time. This kind of design is incredibly strong whilst whole, but will weaken significantly if the structure is compromised in any way. Combine the loss of structural integrity with an intense fire fanned by wind and you have the recipe for disaster.

These days, skyscrapers are built using pretension so we can build them even lighter, yet with far greater strength.

Conclusion... I am not siding one way or the other, but, I have yet to see a conspiracy theory based on 911 that is plausible. Though I will keep looking.

Originally posted by Classified Info

Originally posted by Infi8nity

I will start with the basics. Building 7, a 47 floor STEAL building that collapsed at FREE FALL SPEED in its own FOOT PRINT supposedly from some minor fires.

Here is a link to WTC7 showing the minor fires and how it went virtually unscathed from the collapsing towers.

www.youtube.com...

OMG its still standing


I do not fell like digging it up but on the firemans radio you can hear them say they got most of the fire out. WTC 7 fire was small compared to other steal buildings witch have not fell from larger fires.

Ultimately, I think it's going to be just like the JFK thing (If the country survives long enough for it to play out over decades). I think some people are just never going to even consider possible conspiracy and others are going to be completely convinced it had to be conspiracy.

Within the next few decades (assuming they don't achieve the kind of censorship they'd probably like to) I believe more official story people will start rethinking 9/11. The raw emotions have been preventing a lot of people from wanting to question it, I believe. The further we get away from it, people will look at it with a little more suspicion.

I was born in 1973. I think by the time I heard about the JFK thing, most people were already very suspicious about it.

Most of the people I have talked to about JFK believe there was something very wrong with the official story.

As good as they are at manufacturing reality, their biggest weakness is that they can't change what people remember. If they screwed up in a big way, it's almost impossible for them to cover it up after the fact. At that point, all they really have left is lies and intimidation.

BTW, don't pay attention to member 'classified info' they are trying to defend the OS and will bait you with disinfo, as will 'samkent' and 'waypastvne'.

This is one of the best 9/11 videos imo, show that 9/11 was a cover up.

Goto 07:52 and you will see 2 flashes below the impact zone, and you hear the first flash, which is evidence of explosives.

This video has also had crucial points edited out, seems they missed the explosives at 07:52 though.

Watch full screen and turn it up, the video was taken a little distance from the towers, so was on zoom when this was taken.

Hard evidence in the form of a video interview from police officer Craig Bartmer, and he comfirms there was not enough damage or fires for WTC7 to collapse.