Witness: Someone let gunman inside Colorado movie theater

As a former theater manager, the exit doors are not alarmed and are used frequently by patrons after a movie to get to the parking lot. They can also be easily propped open or, if they are older, may not even latch tightly after being used. I would walk out one (not during a movie) and stick a Bic lighter in the door to keep it open after lighting my cigarette.

Our policy was to always check these doors to insure they were latched usually right before a movie starts, sometimes during and always afterwards. When you see a theater employee enter during a movie, they typically walk the aisle with a light, go to each exit door and return via a different aisle depending on the layout.

There is no evidence indicating that any help was needed and anyone could have easily exited and returned with little effort. Any guy that could rig an apartment with complex explosives should have little trouble figuring out how to effectively prop a door open.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

No I don't think it had anything to do with wanting to witness the carnage, and I haven't seen that theory proposed anywhere. The reason I think he possibly stayed in there is because he was needed to help out, remember one of the witnesses recalled gas canisters flying into the crowd from two separate positions.

It would be risky business for an accomplice to go back to his seat given how dark the theatre was. Big risk of getting hit. And as far as I'm aware there are no reports of two people shooting.

What scene did the shooting happen during?

It was just 5 minutes into the movie on the scene where Catwoman stole Bruce Wayne's pearls. This was when Holmes who was clad in a black protective gear stormed into the theatre and started opening fire on the movie goers.

Another says 30 minutes before but I think the top answer sounds more correct.
Ask.com

Unrelated, Google searches are not showing up the same and I find it really annoying. Typical facebook type data mining tailoring my searches restricting what I find. Another thread for that...

If he was the Joker, then what is the reasoning of a gas mask to hide his face if he was going to calmly give himself up afterwards anyway ?
And what was the point of the gas canisters anyway. Seems a pointless act if your intention is too kill as many as possible.

My reasons for lack of posting is because I lurked on here for many years, got drunk one night and signed up to basically talk about the Madeleine McCann case but got too drunk lol.

reply to post by Moonsquarepluto

It would be risky business for an accomplice to go back to his seat given how dark the theatre was. Big risk of getting hit. And as far as I'm aware there are no reports of two people shooting.

Yes, it would be highly risky, but read what I said about the shooter seemingly avoiding people near the front. And you are correct, there was no report of shots coming from multiple positions, but there were reports of gas canisters coming from multiple positions.

I also get the feeling these guys were really good friends... may explain why Holmes turned him self in and possibly hasn't snitched on his friend (although he may have, I don't know). It also explains why his friend would be worried enough about him to send threats to the police and demand his release, that's possibly something a psychopath would do, assuming he is capable of still loving his friends. It's also possible he may actually kill a bunch more people if he is the real killer and Holmes was just the docile accomplice, and if I were the police I would take those threats very seriously.

And I want to quote again the post I made at the bottom of the last page so you can make more sense of what I'm saying here:

Perhaps the man arrested was the "cell guy" and the real shooter escaped on foot, thus explaining why the gas mask he was said to be wearing was found so far from the car where Holmes was situated when the police arrived. It does make a lot of sense now that I think about it. Why would a psychopathic mass murderer actually wait for the police? And why in the hell would he reveal the whole plan and tell them about the explosives... unless Holmes was actually the accomplice who merely let the shooter inside the theater and perhaps lobbed a few gas canisters into the crowd, but didn't actually shoot anyone. It is very hard to find psychopaths capable of killing like that, and he may have been shocked after seeing his friend mow them down in cold blood, so he simply waited for the police and stopped more people from getting killed by revealing the explosives.

EDIT: and here is what I said about the shooter avoiding the front row:

I've also been hearing rumors that the gunman specifically avoided shooting anywhere near the front rows, which could indicate he was aware of his friend being in the front row. It's also interesting to note that Date claims he has no idea how he was so lucky as to avoid being shot, when he was right up the front in the second row, very close to the shooter. Remember that he also said he was right behind the "cell guy".

If they were really close friends it might also explain why such a cold hearted killer would take the time to avoid shooting his friend.

i am just curious as to how the gas mask was so far away from the car...opposite the exit door..OR was that where he was actually apprehended. It seems victims had left through that door also...the pink flip flops right at the door and what looks to me like a blood trail toward the gas mask...they must have seen the shooter or maybe the arrest?

reply to post by ChillyHeatwave

And what was the point of the gas canisters anyway. Seems a pointless act if your intention is too kill as many as possible.

Well it would have the tactical advantage of confusing and disorientating his victims, making them easier targets and less likely to escape. Might have just been for the sheer drama affect. Might have been so it was harder for people to see him and see where he was. Who really knows, but I don't really think it's something of critical importance.


reply to post by minniesoda

i am just curious as to how the gas mask was so far away from the car...opposite the exit door..OR was that where he was actually apprehended

Read my post above yours. He was found near the car, the gas mask was found a fair distance from him and the point where he entered the cinema. I offer a potential explanation for that.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

I would be willing to bet he parked right near that door on purpose, he knew exactly what cinema he was going into.

But that's not the interesting part of the image imo. Look at where that gas mask was found. Right down near the end of the building, quite a distance from his car, where he was found waiting for the police.

(as long as we're speculating...)
Maybe he wasn't waiting for the police. Maybe he was waiting to be picked up & got ditched.
This could explain why he told the police about the boobytrapped apartment ("well, s### you!" to them) as well as why he was (literally) spitting, crazy mad later on at the jail. His "calmness" could have either been drugged, shock, or that when he realized he'd been left holding the bag, he just shut down.

Don't forget that there was at least one other door in the mall found open (discussed on the PD scanner link). That's a bit of a coincidence, but I'm not sure if the said it was "standing open" or just unlocked.

I forget who said it (sorry!), but since that door has no handle, & looks like it has a high security jamb around it, it would have had to be propped open enough for him to get either his fingers or some kind of "hook" into it to get it open.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

No I don't think it had anything to do with wanting to witness the carnage, and I haven't seen that theory proposed anywhere. The reason I think he possibly stayed in there is because he was needed to help out, remember one of the witnesses recalled gas canisters flying into the crowd from two separate positions.

for a person who suggested I should go back and re-read these posts...you aren't paying that well of attention, are you?

The following is from page 5...a couple of posts down from you. This is what I was responding to.


"""IF he had an accomplice and this accomplice walked over to the door to let Holmes enter, why oh why would he then go back to his seat, knowing full well a rampage was about to take place?


Because he wanted a front row view of the carnage about to unfold?"""

I simply suggested that if there was an accomplice, who had a phone...which i'm 100% certain would equipped with video capabilities...why didn't this mystery accomplice video record the event?

I point this out to suggest there was no accomplice and this was the act of a lone gunman.

as far as the gas cannisters...maybe he threw one so hard it bounced off a wall making it appear that it came from a different location.

Do you guys start crap in here because it makes you feel better or something?

Originally posted by adjensen
I wonder what the likelihood was that it was the shooter. He parks his car at the back, pays to go to the movie, comes in, walks out the emergency exit door, keeps it from locking, gets all his stuff on, then comes back in.

Depends on how long ahead of the shooting the above cited person getting up and going to the door was.

Dude as much stuff as he had on he put that on at home not in just a few short minutes.

reply to post by samlf3rd


firefighters put that much on in a matter of minutes.

it just takes practice.

this guy had lots of practice.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs

Maybe he wasn't waiting for the police. Maybe he was waiting to be picked up & got ditched.
This could explain why he told the police about the boobytrapped apartment ("well, s### you!" to them) as well as why he was (literally) spitting, crazy mad later on at the jail. His "calmness" could have either been drugged, shock, or that when he realized he'd been left holding the bag, he just shut down.

Possibly, but it seems fairly unlikely he would be ditched, and if he were I'm sure he would wait around long enough until the police actually arrived. Also remember that the police have said nothing about possible accomplices, they think he actually did it by himself. If he was really pissed at them like that he would instantly snitch on them.

Also , what was the point of putting on 20,000 dollars worth of clobber if he was simply going to exit the theatre, stand by his car and wait calmly for the police. If he told the police he was the Joker, then why didnt he simply dress up as the Joker. He dyed his hair red just to cover it up with a gas mask. It dont make sense

Edit to add.......If you notice in the opening post pic, you will notice that the assault rifle has no shoulder strap. So how could he hold the rifle and throw canisters with two hands. Im not good at typing what I think so its difficult for me to write what I think, sorry

reply to post by ChillyHeatwave


I wonder if he is red-green color blind.....

reply to post by ChillyHeatwave


I just read this in another thread..

According to this article they "spotted" him. Are they saying now that he didn't patiently wait in his car, but tried to merge in with the SWAT members? Not to mention the fact that he is covered in blood and reeks of gunpowder. There are photos of the back door and his car with plenty of blood trails, plus his assault rifle sitting outside the door. "As Holmes was dressed in armor similar to SWAT team members, Oates said he is "so proud" of two officers who spotted part of Holmes' costume that differs from what a SWAT team member would be wearing. "So kudos to my two cops who grabbed this guy and that sharp observation that they made immediately that led them to suspect him as being the suspect," Oates said."

www.cbsnews.com...

a few questions -

why take/fake a phone call? if your intent is just to murder people, just leave and come back. the fact that he made a big enough deal of getting the phone call so that people noticed means he wanted to be noticed.

this was the premiere of the film, how did he know when the shooting scene would start?

why choose a movie theatre across the street from a police station?

why wear all the body armor and mask? did he think he would end up in a fire fight with police and if so, why just wait at the car calmly to be arrested? why not "go out guns blazing?"

why booby trap the apartment? what does that achieve? and why bother to install hard to remove devices and other traps and then just tell the cops about it? isnt the point of doing that for them to enter the apartment and get hurt and/or killer by the traps?

these are just a few of things that Im wondering about....too many unanswered questions on this one....

reply to post by michaelbrux


Not when you have to climb into the backseat of a two-door coupe and drag out all your gear. Then get suited up in the parking lot with CCTV no doubt.

reply to post by ChillyHeatwave


of course he thought he was going to get away with it.

do you have any idea how many people think they are about to get away with something?

way more than the actual number, i'll tell you that much.

that's the thing about times that we live in. people have every expectation that they will not burn for the things they are doing; they've been told that they will get away with the crime.

guess what, they are going to get away with anything. they are being setup on a daily basis.

reply to post by baddmove


WTF.......
That story is pretty different than what I have been hearing.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
It's amusing how the self-described smart people in this forum think they know what's going on by what they've heard. He's a patsy! It's psyop! Gun control! Darpa! Don't they understand that law enforcement is doing the actual work? Don't they understand that people who know a lot more than them are working on this case? Honestly, the conspiracy theories are annoying.

But I know this is ATS and that's what ATS does. Still, I want to grab them and tell em that sh** happens! Guys lose it and get some guns and blow all their frustrations out in some bullets.

I don't understand how someone can justify it, no matter how badly they're wronged. The only thing I can think is people who do this are psychopathic/sociopathic and angry and borderline suicidal. Being psychopathic/sociopathic means they lack empathy for others. Being angry and suicidal makes them unsettled and prone to insanity. Put the two together and you can have massacres.

Gun control will be the result, one way or another.

edit on 22-7-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Unemployed students don't just one day snap and magically have TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars worth the murder gear.


Only a moron could think that.