**ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS:** We don't like Hitler at ATS, not even a little bit.

A couple of things to note. I too have hovered around this site since early 2006 and have found some fascinating discussions that have genuinely enlightened me and have expanded my knowledge on several key historical topics. truly have learned alot, but I have also seen some things.

I have seen the discussions dwindle in quality DRASTICALLY, thats not to say we dont still have good threads, just not of the caliber like we used to. and all too often we see complete garbage threads and an extremely condescending attitude from users towards new members or 'fringe' topics which has contributed to the overall decline of this site

I have seen quite a few of the better contributing members disappear for reasons I am unaware of, but it has negatively effected this site for sure, as my previous point talks about loss of quality of content

I have seen ads on ATS sky-rocket in frequency and placement, to the point where I too am almost ready to give this site up (I cant even read it on my iphone anymore as i always have a small white triangle page appear at the bottom and it makes the text blurry and I can never close the ad, so im forced to stop reading, and thus become dissatisfied with this service.

I have seen Springer or Skeptic (cant remember which) tout how much traffic this site was receiving, and there was even a thread on it as i believe there were some records being broke for use or hits ATS was receiving. I also wonder how those numbers are reflected now, due to the fact that the high traffic usage was right around the time the site started going down hill, and its obvious at least to me that lots of people are jumping ship here due to excessive ads and 'censorship'

I have also seen where it has been encouraged around here to talk about the less acceptable topics, if for nothing more than to shed light on the topic and discover the truth. Thats what people are talking about when they say 'thats what ATS stands for' denying ignorance by being able to discuss topics and have user generated input to back up and verify or debunk claims. you cant claim to be a site about denying ignorance and wanting genuine discussion on topics when you limit that discussion due to a personal agenda.

I have seen some god-awful rear-end kissing going on, like this anonymous forum is some sort of beauty pageant or popularity contest and the most popular person will get a nice prize and share it their 'followers'

Long story short i have very much noticed a decline in this site, as have many others, so I would like to think the site owners would be mindful of users wishes as we are what generates the income for this site. Afterall it is often encouraged to 'boycott' or 'speak with your wallet' in terms of seeing change, and I genuinely hope that we can remain a positive site and continue to educate people.

I am going to tell one little Hitler story and then that will be it. If i get banned for it, so be it. In my eyes, we should encourage discussion on any topic no matter how painful it is for people, its our duty to educate ourselves and expand our knowledge. I can remember being in middle school and for a project in my class i wrote an essay on why i thought Hitler had contributed to this world in a positive manner. the teacher was shocked, I was only 14 or 15 and I had decided to tackle a very touchy topic (as witnessed even here among adults, so imagine a young kid in a class going against all of history). Well as it turned out, I ended up making an A on the paper as I was able to point out various positive influences that Hitler made on society. Did I agree with the holocaust? Hell no, did i still believe Hitler was an evil person, of course. But I was able to differentiate between the good and bad, and open up an actual discussion to where people learned some things they never knew before, thus denying ignorance. (if anyone is interested U2U me for more details on the paper i wrote, i thought it was quite well researched for my young age) I also believe that with all the moderation on this site, if anywhere would be a good place to learn about differing theories in a relatively safe environment, with sources to back up the claims then here is where you would likely find it. I sure wished when I was writing my paper I had a tool such as this site to help me along the way instead of always being directed to PRO-HITLER sites. Where else could another young phishfriar find this info without being subjected to some vile and vulgar content?

Overall im just extremely disappointed in where this site is headed, much like the USA, it is headed down-hill fast and people are focused on the wrong things to fix it. (as a small side note, another comparison to the USA can be made here, chasing profits over doing whats right, which is a terrible example to set when people come here to try and fix the worlds problems

Honestly, i wish this site the best of luck, and a quick return to being the positive force it once was.

I've been stationed in Germany for just about the same amount of time I've been on ATS. (I found ATS living in billeting while waiting for my family).

If you think that THIS is censorship, you should see how the germans feel about it!

The shame is gone, but the disgust still remains. And rightly so.

reply to post by phishfriar47



It's one thing to say "thanks to Hitler's demands of his scientsits, we landed men on the moon"

it's a far cry from that to say "hitler was misunderstood and was a great guy"


If you don't see the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you

Originally posted by Ben81
I agree Springer !

We should to the same thing with Bush, Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, McCain etc ..
anyone thinking those are heroes are no different from people thinking Hitler was a hero

If ATS bans discussions about Hitler (good or bad)
then they would have to ban comments ..

From the Pro-Bush Pro-Cheney Pro-Dick Pro-Rumsfeld
Pro-Obama Pro-Assad Pro-Saddam Pro-Ahmadinejah Pro-Netanyahu
Pro-Putin and especially Pro-Hilary Clinton (thats one nasty woman)
and even Pro-KKK

So again ATS dont go into that direction
because it can be a painfull ride

When i was agreeing on my first post .. it was kind of sarcastic
because you will have to ban all the others .. which is not a bad idea lol
but then we wouldnt have much discussion/debate anymore

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Islam is not all bad, and there are some Muslim heroes - Osama Bin Laden isn't one of them.

You just proved my point. I'll bet there are more people that believe Bin Laden to be a hero (and a man of god), than there are believers that Hitler was a hero. Would praising Bin Laden be banned? Without Judas Iscariot, Jesus wouldn't have been crucified and our sins would never have been forgiven. If someone said this in the religious conspiracies forum, it would have 80000 responses by now, and no one would have been banned over this.

Look, I think Hitler was insane, and anyone believing any differently must also be insane. But, in fairness, how can one group of lunatics be banned for praising him while other groups praising other megalomaniacs are allowed to speak their minds?

How many threads have you seen here praising Bin Laden as a hero, and that those Americans on 9/11 deserved to die? I haven't seen any. I'll bet you a thousand dollars that thread would be 404'd. As it should be. As Crakeur says - it's disrespectful. One is free to have that opinion, but not free to spill it out all over ATS.

reply to post by Springer


Bravo

A courageous move that dishonors nobody and honors the "Greatest Generation".

reply to post by Crakeur


But didnt Springer limit the discussion to ZERO HITLER talk, so how are people wanting to genuinely know the things I brought up going to find it? I agree with what you say, but Springer closed the door on ANY discussion of the topic. Guess he doesnt appreciate an affordable car or nice interstate highway systems.

Volkswagon, or The Peoples Car
en.wikipedia.org...

Autobahns formed the first limited-access, high-speed road network in the world en.wikipedia.org...

Couldn't the thread have been edited rather than binned? As many have said, there was lots of interesting info there that many had not heard about before.

Any normal person knows what Hitler was like, and that won't be forgotten. If there is another side to the story though, i for one would love to hear about it because i get fed up with MSM just showing us one side.

Hopefully then someone can re-do a thread without glorifying Hitler. Focusing on the events more than the person, if thats possible.

CX.

not many can see the connectedness. if you can't find empathy for the worst hitler, you don't understand empathy and compassion yet. everyone thinks they are above hitler, as if he is the lowest scum of the earth. yet each wrestles with demons on a much simpler scale. and thank science each does not have the machinations of 1940's hitler to wreak havoc with.

hitler did what he did with a willing populace. easy to look back and blame ONE guy for MILLIONS of deaths. yet to not be able to look in the mirror at atrocities performed during current times is myopic to idiocy. hitler represents an entire state-driven machine that mowed down anyone on their list. it wasn't a big scooper truck with hitler in the driver seat. it was state-driven bureaucracy that printed lists of enemies to be rounded up. hitler may have signed the paper, but a population of believers carried out the official acts of terror.

hitler is the symbol of the inability of a population to see it's own atrocities in real time.

Tis simple...it is someone else's website...either post what they like or do not...

reply to post by elmoastro


Slippery slope banning any subjects. Somehow I think the fear of lose advertising might play a part. What happens when advertisers say we won't advertise unless you put an end to all 9/11 conspiracy threads. I don't like the good guy Hitler threads but I dislike this even more as a precedent. Want to know what happens when a site refuses to listen to their user base? Just read about Digg.com and you'll see how a site worth hundreds of millions sold for a mere hundreds of thousands because they ignored their user base.

Originally posted by HipHipHorae
reply to post by elmoastro

 

Slippery slope banning any subjects. Somehow I think the fear of lose advertising might play a part. What happens when advertisers say we won't advertise unless you put an end to all 9/11 conspiracy threads. I don't like the good guy Hitler threads but I dislike this even more as a precedent. Want to know what happens when a site refuses to listen to their user base? Just read about Digg.com and you'll see how a site worth hundreds of millions sold for a mere hundreds of thousands because they ignored their user base.

Again, if you read the thread you'd see the owners already address the idea of advertisers defining content.

It does not happen.

It is clearly written in the Terms & Conditions that we will NOT remove or change content for advertisers.

~Tenth

Originally posted by phishfriar47
But didnt Springer limit the discussion to ZERO HITLER talk, ...

Um ... NO. Did you read the opening post? He said .. no hero worship of Hitler.
that's different than acknowledging the historical fact that Hitler existed.

Were those threads removed? I was kind of interested in reading what people were saying...I seen something about him being against the Illuminati and what not, I was like, "Oh cool, I'll read this later"

There seems to be a fine line between making Hitler seem like "a fine man" and someone who was against the Illuminati...

Godwin's Corollary

Originally posted by Springer
Please note, this is NOT a mandate to silence all discussion about the Nazis, Hitler or WWII, so don't reply to this with feigned confusion or indignation over censorship.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
So we are not allowed to discuss the official story of the Holocaust? Never mind the illogical idea that you must be some sort of Nazi sympathizer to questioning the story.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
They wont answer my question on that subject. of the holocaust, questioning the official story is not fitting for a conspiracy site i guess.

And so the prophecy is fulfilled.

As stated in the very first post, and repeatedly reaffirmed since -- and pointedly ignored by some of us who apparently saw the headline and never bothered to actually read so much as the first post before responding -- questioning anything is not a problem.

Also, since you seem to be somewhat confused about them, here are some handy definitions of relevant words I encourage you to study:

Deny

Question

Please note that they mean different things.

As mentioned repeatedly in this thread, questions are not the issue. Promoting Nazism, Hitler worship, genocide and racial hatred, are, however very much the issue and, for whatever it's worth, have always been..

So yes, your question has been answered. Repeatedly.

I suggest anyone devoting themselves to ignoring that fact review and contemplate the significance of the site motto.




tl;dr version: Discussion of WWII, Hitler, et al? Fine. Promoting or justifying racism, bigotry, glorifying mass murder and pushing propaganda supporting same? Return to sender.

The sender in this case being the sites that distribute it and are free to do so somewhere other than ATS.

Not here.

who was the most diviant.... Hitler, Hemler, Hienrich or Gerbels?

reply to post by Majic


Then I'll repeat my question:

Why are holocaust denial threads allowed in the past?

I have found them detestable but they didn't go away.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by phishfriar47

 

It's one thing to say "thanks to Hitler's demands of his scientsits, we landed men on the moon"

it's a far cry from that to say "hitler was misunderstood and was a great guy"


If you don't see the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you

I haven't seen any of these threads, but apparently SOMEBODY doesn't share our opinion on Hitler. I'm just saying if you open the door to censorship on this level (deleting and banning instead of just dumping it in skunk works) then why should it be tolerated if someone started a thread with the opinion that Timothy McVeigh was a patriot; that the Christian god was misunderstood and was a great guy in the old testament?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on this decision. I'd have thrown such threads either in the skunk works or the hoax bin.

the Hitler thread was removed not closed

Will ATS do the same thing to similar thread
to all other pro's stated in my above reply ?

reply to post by Springer


It's your site Springer, so unfortunately you have the right to restrict the topics discussed here. However, I do find it funny that a site supposed to "deny ignorance" decides to ignore the one topic that has the most ignorance surrounding it.

As I've mentioned in those Hitler threads, I'm not a fan. My family has Jewish lineage as well as some still practicing. My ex fiance was Jewish. But my dislike of Hitler doesn't limit me in discussing him, WWII or theories regarding the Holocaust, why the war happened and what went on. I'm not prone to knee jerk and emotional reactions like ATS and many of it's members.

I would also formerly like ATS to take an equally strong stance against Communist discussions and ban on all Communist insignia as Stalin targeted (and murdered) anywhere from 1.7 million to 10 million Christians during his reign.