US geoengineers to spray sun-reflecting chemicals from balloon

Originally posted by Iwinder
Nothing new to us here but it certainly was a good read and your handling of the trolls in a polite manner is commendable to say the least.

S&F for the OP and Thanks again for the informative thread.
Regards, Iwinder

indeed, apparently their handlers are tazing them today for not doing a good job
this would explain the sheer,desperate, irrationality in some of those troll posts@@

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

I have no option but to agree and laugh at the same time.
Is this permissible on ATS?

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


as long as your mouth isn't full..

reply to post by Phage

Why public funding?

Because they're smart cookies when it comes to protecting themselves and their money. Keith, the 'scientist' involved has this to say about protecting the Gate's fortune:

“We will not do an outdoor experiment with that funding,” he said, referring to the money from Mr. Gates.

The link you put up doesn't say how much is 'tiny.' 100 kilograms is about 220 lbs. - for those, like me, who don't do kilograms. But how much is a tiny amount is not given. Maybe you can supply?

Trial Ballon: A Tiny Geoengineering Experiment

Dr. Anderson bristled at the suggestion in The Guardian report that the experiment would use large amounts of the particles.

Also the size of the actual particles would be helpful because with really small particles, a small amount can sometimes go a lot further than a large amount of the same thing.

And also if someone hadn't actually leaked about the proposal, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion today.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
And also if someone hadn't actually leaked about the proposal, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion today.

edit on 17-7-2012 by luxordelphi because: add last sentence.

Yes, we should praise the whistleblower, David Keith, for telling us about this non-secret experiment he might do next year.

And it's going to be tiny. The whole idea is to duplicate something like a volcanic eruption (which happen all the time), but on a far far smaller scale. Just under semi-controlled conditions.

reply to post by Uncinus


What's more this whistleblower is actually willing to be identified and published - unlike all previous ones!

All the "usual suspects" that jump on the chemtrail and geoengineering threads are here today....with the same tactics, the same snarky comments, and the same tiresome attitudes.

I'm not sure I care for them putting anything more in the air, no matter how minute. As for it being "controlled", how do you control something once you let it loose in the atmosphere at 80,000 feet? How do you keep track of it as it begins its descent?

I would think computer modeling would suffice for such an experiment, but what do I know? I'm just a person downwind from New Mexico who breathes the air and whatever else is put into it.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
I'm not sure I care for them putting anything more in the air, no matter how minute. As for it being "controlled", how do you control something once you let it loose in the atmosphere at 80,000 feet? How do you keep track of it as it begins its descent?

IMO some 10's or hundreds of kg's that are mentinoed would never make it to the surface in any noticeable form - nature pumps millions of tonnes of sulphur into the atmosphere every year, as do industrial processes - in terms of pollution this quantity is irrelevant.

I'm more curious about how they expect to measure any effect from such a small amount.

But reading the article makes a few things clear:

His US experiment, conducted with American James Anderson, will take place within a year and involve the release of tens or hundreds of kilograms of particles to measure the impacts on ozone chemistry, and to test ways to make sulphate aerosols the appropriate size.

So they are looking at the chemistry at altitude rather than the effects of the substance used for SRM per se - ie they are not looking at how much cooling it is actually going to do.

I would think computer modeling would suffice for such an experiment, but what do I know? I'm just a person downwind from New Mexico who breathes the air and whatever else is put into it.

There has been quite a lot of computer modelling done - google scholar search.

And as the article states:

Since it is impossible to simulate the complexity of the stratosphere in a laboratory, Keith says the experiment will provide an opportunity to improve models of how the ozone layer could be altered by much larger-scale sulphate spraying.

A lot of "geoengineers" think that adding sulphates to the atmosphere is fraught with problems - not the least of which is that is will potentially contribute to acid rain, and who needs more pollution in the atmopsher anyway!

reply to post by Uncinus

Yes, we should praise the whistleblower, David Keith, for telling us about this non-secret experiment he might do next year.

I don't get you. I didn't say that the 'scientist' Keith was a whistleblower. I said that someone leaked the proposal. There were 3 articles yesterday from the Guardian, Gizmodo and the N.Y.Times and these articles appeared to have interviewed these persons: Keith & Anderson. Because they have quotes from them. Do you think that Keith & Anderson called a press conference to announce an unfinished proposal?

And it's going to be tiny. The whole idea is to duplicate something like a volcanic eruption (which happen all the time), but on a far far smaller scale. Just under semi-controlled conditions.

And you would be an authority on this unfinished proposal because...? Are thousands of tons of stuff now considered tiny?

Scientists Plan to Block the Sun Using Man-Made Clouds

But while most plans to use geoengineering to alter the weather have been rather hypothetical, now a pair of Harvard engineers have announced that they intend to spray thousands of tons of particles into the sky to block the sun's rays

So they called a press conference to announce that they're going to spray thousands of tons of stuff and then re-called other media to say that they goofed and that they were going to spray tiny amounts? All talking about an unfinished proposal.

Trial Balloon: A Tiny Geoengineering Experiment

Two Harvard professors said Tuesday they were developing a proposal for what would be a first-of-its-kind field experiment to test the risks and effectiveness of a geoengineering technology for intervening in the earth’s climate.

Dr. Anderson bristled at the suggestion in The Guardian report that the experiment would use large amounts of the particles.

He and Dr. Keith said they expected to have a full proposal written by the end of the year and then would seek public money to pay for it.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Yes, we should praise the whistleblower, David Keith, for telling us about this non-secret experiment he might do next year.

I don't get you. I didn't say that the 'scientist' Keith was a whistleblower. I said that someone leaked the proposal. There were 3 articles yesterday from the Guardian, Gizmodo and the N.Y.Times and these articles appeared to have interviewed these persons: Keith & Anderson. Because they have quotes from them. Do you think that Keith & Anderson called a press conference to announce an unfinished proposal?

No, but there was no suggestion anywhere that it was "leaked", it seemed he was simply basing it on conversation he's had with Keith and Anderson

And it's going to be tiny. The whole idea is to duplicate something like a volcanic eruption (which happen all the time), but on a far far smaller scale. Just under semi-controlled conditions.

And you would be an authority on this unfinished proposal because...? Are thousands of tons of stuff now considered tiny?

They never said thousands of tons. They said "tens or hundreds of kilograms of particles".

Scientists Plan to Block the Sun Using Man-Made Clouds

But while most plans to use geoengineering to alter the weather have been rather hypothetical, now a pair of Harvard engineers have announced that they intend to spray thousands of tons of particles into the sky to block the sun's rays

So they called a press conference to announce that they're going to spray thousands of tons of stuff and then re-called other media to say that they goofed and that they were going to spray tiny amounts? All talking about an unfinished proposal.

No they did not call a press conference. Yes they corrected errors in the Guardian article. Yes, it's an unfinished proposal.

So, since the public is supposed to fund it, can't the public refuse?
If the public doesn't want it, the public should not allow it.
Simple. No need to argue anymore.
Just say no.

Or stay distracted on ATS
and let it happen.

nutshell.

Speaking of "geo-engineering....they were out in full force, today. First time, in months, that they've been spraying. I wonder what that means for the mid-west to east coast? It's a little late in the season, to be cloud seeding. Shouldn't they have done that, when water was needed most????

www.thecrimson.com...

The British newspaper The Guardian published a story on Tuesday that said in its first sentence that two Harvard engineers are about to “spray sun-reflecting chemical particles into the atmosphere to artificially cool the planet.”

But according to one of the two engineers, James G. Anderson, that is not at all what he and his research partner David Keith are considering doing. “The irony is we are doing the opposite of that,” Anderson said, claiming that the article “completely massacred the facts.”

Anderson, a professor of atmospheric chemistry, said that the actual project idea—though it has not even been formally proposed yet—is to spray a small amount of chemicals into the air to test their effect on free radicals that could destroy ozone, not to change the planet’s climate.

“Our primary purpose is to protect the stratosphere by developing methods that will clearly demonstrate what the response of the stratospheric system is, without affecting the ozone,” Anderson said.

Rather than spraying chemicals in an effort to change the Earth’s climate, Anderson said his experiment would likely serve to eliminate the possibility of anyone doing exactly that, because it will prove that a climate-changing chemical blast would have adverse effects.

So it seems they feel the likely outcome of the experiment would be to demonstrate that spraying stuff in the atmosphere is a bad idea.

reply to post by Uncinus


Look at the spin doctors go to work.

We all know what the ultimate goal of these tests are.

These climate scientists can't wait to go test out their new toys and they will say anything to get approval.

Business Insider also has an article today a retraction/clarification of the original article, but for some reason the page won't load for me, won't someone else have a look?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but if full scale geoengineering is taking place already, why are they proposing this small scale experiment to determine whether or not there is any chance it might work?

reply to post by AndyMayhew

To clarify;

The purpose of the proposed experiment is not to determine if sulphate aerosols would be effective for geoengineering. The purpose is to to determine if they would be harmful to the ozone layer.

reply to post by Phage




I agree. But what of the Chemtrailers?

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Who has said that "full scale" geoengineering is already taking place?

Since your question seems to be a hypothetical one, hypothetically speaking, it's a method of diversion and distraction. Similar to a slight of hand magic trick.

The magician says, "look nothing in my right hand", while his left hand is accomplishing the trick.

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

Who has said that "full scale" geoengineering is already taking place?

it's one of the multi-variable 'explanations' for chemtrails - just check out the last 100 chemtrail threads on ATS

You presumably think chemtrails are something else altogether and that this experiment has nothing to do with them? Good!

btw why do you think the magician wants you to look at the skies? What are they doing that you are not seeing?