Deputies shoot, kill man after knocking on wrong door

The cops identifying themselves is a moot point.

For starters anyone can say they are cops.

Any one of us can knock on any door and shout "Police, Open up!"

Whether I actually am a cop or I'm just waiting for your nervous gullible ass to unlock your door at 1:30AM so I can clobber you with a tire iron and ransack your home is yet to be determined.

Now that I know so many people up here will happily put their gun away on nothing more than an announcement that I am a cop it's apparently free-reign on your property and even your life.

Second, they dont announce themselves for your benefit. If they choose to announce that they are the police it's to throw you off. To put you on edge. To distract you while their buddies break the kitchen window.

Nothing the cops choose to do is for your benefit. Their only interest is themselves.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by 11235813213455
I say find where these police officers live and then simply go knock on their door at 1am.

Wheres the harm in just knocking on a door?

Make sure and go there wearing body armor and fully armed. That's the way the cops did it. They must have had their guns drawn when they knocked on the door, too.

They probably did have the guns drawn, but what baffles my mind is the reporter saying the police didn't identify themselves for safety reasons. Yeah maybe for THEIR safety, but what about the safety of civilians? This is proof that they just don't care about anyone's safety but their own. The words public safety officer means nothing anymore. These cops have every tool at their disposal and yet chose to go in gun blazing. Supposedly they are so smart with education and training, but yet they don't have a foggiest idea where their suspect is, they did little investigation or surveillance. It's just to hard to do it the right way and easier to just shoot people. They should share that mans same fate. No law should justify the killing of an innocent person especially at the hands of a public paid peace officer!

Originally posted by sean

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by 11235813213455
I say find where these police officers live and then simply go knock on their door at 1am.

Wheres the harm in just knocking on a door?

Make sure and go there wearing body armor and fully armed. That's the way the cops did it. They must have had their guns drawn when they knocked on the door, too.

They probably did have the guns drawn, but what baffles my mind is the reporter saying the police didn't identify themselves for safety reasons. Yeah maybe for THEIR safety, but what about the safety of civilians? This is proof that they just don't care about anyone's safety but their own. The words public safety officer means nothing anymore. These cops have every tool at their disposal and yet chose to go in gun blazing. Supposedly they are so smart with education and training, but yet they don't have a foggiest idea where their suspect is, they did little investigation or surveillance. It's just to hard to do it the right way and easier to just shoot people. The problem with this sad story is these two LEO's are still breathing.

edit on 17-7-2012 by sean because: (no reason given)

Many videos that I have seen of SWAT actions committed against a residence show the teams announcing that they are law enforcement either immediately before, while or immediately after they use a battering ram to breach the doorway... usually immediately after. Even the SWAT teams, who often have more to worry about in regard to their own safety announce that they are law enforcement.

Something really does seem 'off' about this case.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by sean

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by 11235813213455
I say find where these police officers live and then simply go knock on their door at 1am.

Wheres the harm in just knocking on a door?

Make sure and go there wearing body armor and fully armed. That's the way the cops did it. They must have had their guns drawn when they knocked on the door, too.

They probably did have the guns drawn, but what baffles my mind is the reporter saying the police didn't identify themselves for safety reasons. Yeah maybe for THEIR safety, but what about the safety of civilians? This is proof that they just don't care about anyone's safety but their own. The words public safety officer means nothing anymore. These cops have every tool at their disposal and yet chose to go in gun blazing. Supposedly they are so smart with education and training, but yet they don't have a foggiest idea where their suspect is, they did little investigation or surveillance. It's just to hard to do it the right way and easier to just shoot people. The problem with this sad story is these two LEO's are still breathing.

edit on 17-7-2012 by sean because: (no reason given)

Many videos that I have seen of SWAT actions committed against a residence show the teams announcing that they are law enforcement either immediately before, while or immediately after they use a battering ram to breach the doorway... usually immediately after. Even the SWAT teams, who often have more to worry about in regard to their own safety announce that they are law enforcement.

Something really does seem 'off' about this case.

Now that you mentioned breaching doors. That reminds me a few years back of an incident that took place where I am from. Sheriffs and swat all geared out with everything and full auto sub 9's. Story goes they was raiding a drug lab in a mobile home in a trailer park. While going onto the property and ready to breach the house they was encountered with the owners dog from what I heard it was just a mid sized ankle biter. They shot off multiple full auto rounds shredding this dog like swiss cheese right? Stray bullets flying everywhere and one penetrated another home near by and pierced the spine of a guy laying in bed sleeping in his house. Paralyzed him for life. That story ran on T.V. once at 6pm and was never heard of again. It wasn't even on the 11pm news later that night. They shut the media up real quick on that one. That guy must of sued them for millions and he deserved every penny of it.

reply to post by sean


That is a sad story, but even sadder is what Fing good is money when you can't walk or do anything to enjoy it. Like this mans poor family, What good is compensation, the man is dead. What good does being innocent do for him, pay for his funeral? Money don't mean crap when your dead.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Separate. Police. Prosecutorial. Authority.

This sort of thing is fomented by the current internally conflicted state of affairs. The police should have no internal self-investigative powers - it's a conflict of interest, direct and plain. The oversight authority of police should not be beholden to the police for their job success as is the case with the current district atty setup. The DA will not prosecute any cop he isn't forced to because his/her job depends on them.

You want actual oversight, separate it. Kill off IA. Appoint a separate commission at the state level to perform LEO oversight, whose success is judged by the number of cops they successfully prosecute. Rotate the staff constantly to reduce fraternization. Enforce draconian penalties on the oversight committee if caught doing less than their best. All the proceedings to be open by sunshine law.

That would go a long way toward getting my trust back.

I'm sorry, but your idea is going to have to make a heck of a lot less sense if it is to have any potential for future implementation. But I bet if you work in some type of a doughnut chute operated by multicultural blow-up dolls, you may have yourself a plan...

Then again, if the police officers are already that unprofessional to shoot an innocent man, then how do we know they're not lying a bit to save their own hides? Maybe the man actually said: Who is it? But the police didn't answer because they don't want the "murderer" to know it's the police! So the guy opens up, pointing a gun at them(why shouldn't he?) and the police have open fire on the poor guy.

I'm in no way saying the theory I just provided was true, I'm just giving an example of how we might never know what happened, really.

Humans are liars, we all are at some point.

Well, someone needs to be charged in this one! It's about that straight forward. Someone needs manslaughter charges.

A lot of you here at ATS still just don't get it. It doesn't matter, so they shoot and killed him, so what !! It wasn't you and nobody will do anything about it and it will happen again and again. Nobody really cares. Let it go and go back to UFO and monster topics.

Buck

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
because if it is someone wanting to do you harm, the gun sitting on the night stand will be the last thing you think of before you die.

If they don't respond to the verbal challenge, then feel free to start the protection thing. Otherwise the last thing you think before you die is of how you could have avoided killing someone at your front door for waking you up. If it was seriously someone who wanted to come into your house, don't you think they'd have a better chance of doing that if you stayed asleep? I don't know about you... but I don't wake up people I intend to sneak up on.

Ever heard of a home invasion?

Evidently not, jackass.

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet


Why knock? I didn't mean they should kick the door in... I just meant maybe there weren't any lights on, and they weren't the type of folks to go yelling into the night when there might not even be anyone home. Or when that would send the person they were looking for fleeing out the back door. Knock and wait for a response before identifying?

Is it standard practice for Police to identify themselves loudly as they knock?

Standard practice is to send a couple officers out back to catch "runners" if there is a flight risk, so no worries on the guy who bolts out the back door - he just gets caught sooner.

Around here, at my house anyhow, they don't announce themselves when they knock after sundown, but one officer ALWAYS goes and stands where I can see him out the front window so I know who it is. before I even go to the door.

I can recall one case where they stood back and announced themselves, but that was because one of the responding officers happened to be my neighbor, knew I was armed, and knew I had no particular compunctions against firing. It was best for all concerned, them AND me, to announce who they were ahead of time. As soon as they announced who they were, I unloaded my gun and laid it on the dryer before going to the door, turning on the interior light so they could see me - the UNARMED me - and slowly opened the door. I cracked the door open and slid it the rest of the way with my foot, so I could show them empty hands first.

Use a little common sense, and no one has to go home dead.

Same for traffic stops. back when I drove, if I got pulled over, I kept my hands top dead center on the steering wheel so they could see them first, and left my hands right there when I told them I was armed, the gun was on my right hip and the firearms permit was in my left breast pocket, and which did they want first?

When you train law enforcement to act like military assault teams stuff like this is bound to happen. All they had to do is surround the apartment and tell everyone inside to come out. This kind of stuff will continue to happen until people get sick of it and get involved at local level to make sure law enforcement is trained the right way.

I know law enforcement have a hard job but they shouldn't be so trigger happy to take another person life. They need to get back to being peace officers and not military assault teams. If they keep this up one day they will or their family will pay the price for it, they will do this to wrong family.

How many times to they get the right man?
And just shoot him?

So now WFTV has outed them for lying about why they were at the apartment complex at all. They had stated they were there in pursuit of possible attempted murder suspect, but the radio dispatches prove otherwise. At the time they were looking for two guys for assault and battery with the worst charge stated in those transmissions as "aggravated battery".

They got both guys but it wasn't until after Scott was shot dead at his apartment door that the charges on one of the guys was upgraded to attempted murder.

So they even lied about why they were there in order to try to make people think differently of the whole situation.

www.wftv.com...

Appears it didn't work real well.

reply to post by Valhall
Thanks for posting this.

It is looking more and more like a mob hit than a police operation. Now that it is obvious that they are covering up...What all are they covering up?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Valhall

 

Thanks for posting this.

It is looking more and more like a mob hit than a police operation. Now that it is obvious that they are covering up...What all are they covering up?

Yeah, it was pretty obvious from the get-go. I mean, when they had the audacity to release information that they found "drugs and drug paraphernalia" (and they said it that way because "pot and a bong" doesn't sound nearly as "illegal") in Scott's apartment it was pretty obvious that attacking the innocent dead guy wasn't beneath them to try to make themselves look better. Think about it, they did an unlawful search and seizure on a dead guy's apartment and then had the audacity to leak what they found! I'm not buying that Scott's last words were "Oh, and feel free to search the place guys!"

Someone needs to be arrested.

reply to post by Valhall

Someone needs to be arrested.

That's true.

But we both know better than to hold our breath waiting for that to happen!

So Lake County Sheriff Borders granted an interview. I'm thinking he should have thought twice about this:

www.wftv.com...

Here are some of his soothing pearls of wisdom cast out while defending his trigger-happy deputy.

Come to find out Scott wasn't alone. His girlfriend was in the house with him, so when someone started banging on his door at 1:30 in the morning he had her to defend and be concerned for as well. He got shot dead right there with her present. Sheriff Borders says,

She said she was OK, but you knew that she wasn’t. I could tell she was upset.

The man's a virtual empathic, isn't he? Idiot.

Then he goes on to say:

I support people to bear arms to defend themselves, but there was no imminent danger here. We were knocking on the door.

How in the wide wide world of sports was Scott supposed to know there was no imminent danger? Is this defense allowed for ANYBODY who shoots down someone else? They just say - my bad, don't know why he started defending himself, THERE WAS NO IMMINENT DANGER. Never mind the gun I had in my hand. or never mind that I was climbing in their bedroom window. or never mind I was taking their girlfriend. I knew I wasn't an imminent danger and that, by golly, is all that matters.

This is insane.

reply to post by Valhall


Thanks for posting this.

No imminent danger, eh Sheriff Borders? I bet Scott would beg to differ, if he were alive.

Just think how differently this all could have turned out, if the cops had said this while knocking on the door:
"This is the police. We are looking for a criminal."

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by WildTurkey101
reply to post by xyankee

 

Are the police not required to identify themselves at some point? Obviously if they had, this man wouldn't have opened the door with a gun. He had no idea it was police banging on the door and was within his rights to protect his home.

Yeah, if you want to rob someone just knock on the door and shout "Police!" at 1am!

It's totally reasonable for an innocent person to NOT expect armed officers to be banging down the door in the middle of the night.

We tend to see this whole scenario, without the guns, in Australia and the UK. Police investigate police and nothing is done. Disgusting? Yes indeed, and you need lots of money to fight it.

Even if they shouted Police, he has no reason to expect an armed contingency of the local mafia banging on his door. I would have answered in the same way, and they would have shot me, because they had the wrong house...

I fully expect this story to be buried by something else within a week. I doubt any of the "white folks" will utter a word about it, the senior officers will send them all off on a paid vacation while they shuffle some paperwork around and look half-busy, then they'll be back on the beat to gun down someone else in another five years. Maybe then this story will see the light of day again and people will be asking why no one was held accountable.

Of course, by then the senior officers who buried it and "helped out their buddy" will be retired, and the ones who should have been charged with manslaughter would have been promoted to those positions of authority ready to let their friends off the hook too.

edit on 16-7-2012 by detachedindividual because: (no reason given)