Dangerous Game: 'US almost daring Tehran to Strike First'

reply to post by spy66

This is were You are wrong. Iran has a early warning system that is better than What the US have. Iran is capable of detecting a first strike by the US and retaliate at the same time.

Good god, I have seen some absolute nonfactual asinine nonsense (about 90% of this thread so far) regarding Iran's pathetic military but this takes the friggin cake... You honestly believe this? You honestly believe that the troglodytes and evolutionary throwbacks in Iran can come remotely close to America's NORAD and Strategic Air Command? Do you live in Iran or Pakistan by any chance? If so it would explain the ignorance. If Janes Defense isn't blocked by your countries censors I suggest you and many others take a serious look at **MILITARY FACTS** rather than the moronic propaganda and fecal matter you have been reading or been bombarded with.

Just, WOW...

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by spy66

 

This is were You are wrong. Iran has a early warning system that is better than What the US have. Iran is capable of detecting a first strike by the US and retaliate at the same time.

Good god, I have seen some absolute nonfactual asinine nonsense (about 90% of this thread so far) regarding Iran's pathetic military but this takes the friggin cake... You honestly believe this? You honestly believe that the troglodytes and evolutionary throwbacks in Iran can come remotely close to America's NORAD and Strategic Air Command? Do you live in Iran or Pakistan by any chance? If so it would explain the ignorance. If Janes Defense isn't blocked by your countries censors I suggest you and many others take a serious look at **MILITARY FACTS** rather than the moronic propaganda and fecal matter you have been reading or been bombarded with.

Just, WOW...

edit on 15-7-2012 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)

I am from Norway. And i am not joking You at all. Iran bought very sophisticated early warning radar detection systems from the Ukrain in 2004/5. Something that has bothered the US ever since.

Iran have also built their own simmuler system basen on the Ukarin system.

It is disappointing and sad to see so many people cheerleading for war. One guy even said that he wished it would begin essentially because he was bored with waiting for it. The reasoning goes something like, "I have seen and read it all over the MSM: these Iranians are subhuman Neanderthals and, worst of all, Muslims, therefore they are expendable. So, let's go kill a bunch of them. That should teach them not to [insert favorite Iran gripe here]". From my little limited world-view, the risk is not so much that the US military will fare badly. The risk is that a lot of people will be killed. Iranian people. American people. People. Killed. That is precisely the sort of thing that we should be striving to avoid. This isn't the Superbowl, folks. It is just death, misery, and grief for a whole lot of people who have nothing to do with government policy.

Originally posted by Spectral Norm
It is disappointing and sad to see so many people cheerleading for war. One guy even said that he wished it would begin essentially because he was bored with waiting for it. The reasoning goes something like, "I have seen and read it all over the MSM: these Iranians are subhuman Neanderthals and, worst of all, Muslims, therefore they are expendable. So, let's go kill a bunch of them. That should teach them not to [insert favorite Iran gripe here]". From my little limited world-view, the risk is not so much that the US military will fare badly. The risk is that a lot of people will be killed. Iranian people. American people. People. Killed. That is precisely the sort of thing that we should be striving to avoid. This isn't the Superbowl, folks. It is just death, misery, and grief for a whole lot of people who have nothing to do with government policy.

edit on 15-7-2012 by Spectral Norm because: weird punctuation problem

I don't think people are cheer-leading for war. On the contrary, there is enough "Sabre Ratteling" going on in the middle east by Iran and Syria. War Games are scheduled to take place in Syria with Russia, Iran and China in the next few weeks. That makes a good argument for war.

The amount of idiocy on here about Iran's inflated military capabilities is amazing. If this werent ATS i would be apalled. IRAN DOESNT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST THE US IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM-SORRY!!!

I know most folks on this site are Anti-US but they obviously arent Anti-stupid. Sad, so sad.

Originally posted by deessell

Originally posted by jude11
There is no doubt that the US wants yet another War. This is the one they want and they will keep poking the bear until they get their War. Simple.

edit on 14-7-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

You speak with such certainty. But, it is just rhetoric. Can you support your "There is no doubt that the US wants yet another war"? Some links etc?

here let me help you out

To underscore the personal meaning of events of international scope, I offer three scenarios on a small scale. These events don't involve countries and entire peoples. The players are a few individuals, and the setting is a single neighborhood.

It's your neighborhood, and you're one of the players.

Situation One:

Several of Sam's friends are viciously murdered. Sam says he knows who did it, and he can prove it. Most people, including Sam, think that the suspected murderer is hiding in Tom's house. Sam demands that Tom surrender the alleged killer. Tom responds that he'd be happy to do so; Tom requests only that Sam show him the evidence that the suspected killer is, in fact, guilty. Sam insists he has the evidence, so Tom can't imagine why the request would be problematic.

Sam refuses Tom's offer and repeats his demand that Tom surrender the supposedly guilty man without conditions. Tom says again that he'd be glad to comply with Sam's demand; he only asks that Sam offer the evidence that Sam says he has. This back-and-forth continues; neither Sam nor Tom will alter his position. In frustration, Tom finally declares: "Look, I'll do everything you demand. You say you have evidence proving he's guilty. So show it to me. Then you can have him. You can have everything you say you want."

At that point, Sam yells: "THIS MEANS WAR!!" Sam means it. He kills Tom and his entire family, destroys Tom's house, murders several of his neighbors and wrecks much of the neighborhood.

Seeming Madness: The Suffocating Unreality that Kills

How would you describe Sam's behavior? Note that, in all of these scenarios, Sam's victim repeatedly assures Sam that he can have whatever Sam says he wants. Every time, despite the fact that Sam can have everything he says he wants -- and despite the further fact that Sam gets everything he says he wants -- Sam's only response is: "THIS MEANS WAR!!"

We can certainly conclude that what Sam says he wants is not what he actually wants. The scenarios compel a further conclusion, an especially terrible one: what Sam actually wants can be achieved in only one way -- the destruction of his victim. And as I've indicated, the destruction always encompasses more than just a single victim: other people are destroyed as well.

It is tempting to say that Sam is a homicidal maniac. In one sense, that's true, and I will not argue the point. But the full truth is far worse: what if Sam isn't "just" a homicidal maniac? What if he knows exactly what he wants and has set in motion a plan to achieve it? Note this: so far, Sam's plan has worked.

****
For this is the view of the ruling class: "America is God. God's Will be done."

What they want is dominion over the world. They intend to have it. In pursuit of this aim, as they believe the necessity arises, they will destroy anyone and anything that stands in their way. To describe their behavior as insane is to miss the much more critical point, and to minimize the far greater danger. They know exactly what they're doing. They're hoping that you do not. To date, far too many people oblige them.

Don't help them in their pursuit of brutality, oppression, murder and vast destruction. I state again: they know exactly what they're doing. Be sure you judge them accordingly.

Iran top leader one to decide on Strait of Hormuz

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — The chairman of Iran's Joint Chiefs of Staff says the decision over whether Tehran would block the strategic Strait of Hormuz, the passageway through which a fifth of the world's oil flows, rests in the hands of the country's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Gen. Hasan Firouzabadi says Iran has a contingency plan to close the key route, but Khamenei, as commander in chief of the armed forces, would have to make the final decision.

Firouzabadi's comments come two weeks after the European Union enforced a total oil embargo against Iran for its refusal to halt its uranium enrichment program. His comments were reported by the semi-official Fars news agency Sunday.

Iran's Revolutionary Guard has previously warned that Tehran would order the closure if the country's oil exports were blocked.

Yep-nothing is done without Khamenie's consent. Thats the way of a dictatorship. Akmynutsbjob is just a mouthpiece but has not power.

O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

-Excerpt from The War Prayer by Mark Twain.

reply to post by jude11


"It's as if the US just can't go without War. It's a disease amongst the leaders and a sense of pride amongst many citizens. Very obvious with some of the posters even on ATS. And to clarify, NOT all Americans fall into this mold. "

I dont have a particular fondness of americans, but this is the one time I'll stand up for them. You create your mould, then try to cram americans into it. Then you try to back out of it and say all americans arent that way. You think the citizens of america have any control over what their government does? They don't. Not at the global level. The corporations with the money dictate who they invade next.

Nobody is psychotically bloodthirsty the way you're trying to make people out to be. Killing the poor and stealing resources makes money. You would be doing it too if you were born on that side of the status fence.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
its not a dangerous game. this is a sure thing.

Iran is going to sit down and do nothing and learn to love it.

Iran is being taught a lesson right now and they are learning.

the lesson is...you are not like the US, scale down your ambitions and live long.

Brilliant. Arrogance has started many a war and Japan was one example. Iran is a potential Japan. If Iran scales down it is safe. Right and wrong have little to do with it. Wars throughout the ages have been fought or avoided on exactly the same principles, nothing had changed in thousands of years.

Originally posted by Prof. Twister
reply to post by Ben81

 

The knowledge of the US about the capabilities of the Iranian armed forces, particularly those of the IRGC, is merely a small portion of their real capabilities, It means that US will face unexpected consequences...

How do you know this? I've been reading a lot of the posts and there are many claims being made about Iran's capabilities or lack thereof with nothing of substance to back them up.

As to Iran hurting the US.... I'm sure they could inflict some damage seeing we'd be fighting them on their turf. However, I think it's silly to not to expect that the US could decimate the Iranian military within days. I would think there is massive concern on the part of Iran's leadership. How could there not be? The most powerful military in the world parked on your doorstep? Of course they're very concerned!

When things get tense like this, I would also expect the US to be talking with the other permanent members of the UN Security Council "off the record" to let them know what is up so there are no "mistakes".

Originally posted by Kapkalna
reply to post by jude11

 

I dont have a particular fondness of americans,

Why would you say that? Why paint all Americans with a broad brush? The average American the government. I certainly don't lump together the average middle easterner with the policies of his/her government.

A lot of us don't want these military actions because (a) they've been largely unnecessary and (b) they're draining our coffers.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by jude11
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

they have some nut jobs in the power structure by my way of thinking and how most of the East thinks, no question. However, their people seem okay with it

Just checking to see if West is changed to East...how would the rest of the statement look?

Yup, seems about right.

Peace

I would imagine their people DO say about the same thing although after living right up close to a decade of war, perhaps not half as kindly as I put it. lol.... I Miss America. The America that I knew most of my life and which ended on 9/11. Peace time America. End the friggen wars. Enough. How many hundreds of thousands are enough to die? It's just got to end... Sheesh. We're at the point with Syria and Iran where we're creating the very situations we then point to as the reason we have to do something. It's just criminal.

I would like to know when the heck the USA was ever at peace cause even if there were no troops deployed the
MIC was promoting wars through CIA ops or the likes! Don't be so nieve because the truth is always far from what it appears! There has not been a peace time america since before WW2 and It could even go back farther then that! Though you are correct when you say "we're creating the very situations we then point to as the reason we have to do something."! If Americans ever wake up enough to realize that we need to do more then vote in some pointless election I would be very suprised!

If a war does break out, I do believe the United States will face more resistance than they've seen in recent memory, but they will ultimately win... But that win will come with more loss than we're use to... And when you really think about it, they may win, but at the end of the day, we are all losing.... Violence is never the solution, but strangely, humans always prefer to use that to solve any problems...

reply to post by Spectral Norm



A War Prayer??? Oh the irony!

Religion in propaganda form, isn't god lovely :/



And the sad thing is that there's fanatics from all angles that will use that line.

Originally posted by gepetto

Originally posted by Kapkalna
reply to post by jude11

 

I dont have a particular fondness of americans,

Why would you say that? Why paint all Americans with a broad brush? The average American the government. I certainly don't lump together the average middle easterner with the policies of his/her government.

A lot of us don't want these military actions because (a) they've been largely unnecessary and (b) they're draining our coffers.

Before i say what I want to say i would like to state that i don't say this lightly and this is not intended to classify all Americans. For one I find the middle class Americans to be the most out of touch even more so then poor Americans! As for the upper class most of whom think that most are beneath them with their snobby attitudes
they are only outdone by the media disinformationist and politicians! So I guess most foreigners have a right to dislike us! As I don't even like what we have become myself! I guess this is why i mostly keep to myself! Americans are superficial, materialistic, selfish, ignorant and arrogant though I do not put all of us into this class just the majority! Most of them are opverweight and are only willing to stand up for what's right only when it concerns them or theirs! Though most have the opinion not to want to see a war, while at the same time those same people are not willing to do anything or at least much about it! So while I am torn between a need not to generalize of any people while at the same time disqusted because America is in the middle of a social entropy! In the end instead of uniting against a common enemy we will undoubtedly be preying against each other in a state of panic to survive for the very necessities required to sustain ourselves for whatever bleak future is ahead! I have seen this all my life but i don't blame Americans! I blame the Military industrial media complex which has stupified us beyond reprieve, with whatever chemicals, drugs and idiotic media that reduces our intellect and strips us of our critical thinking, imagination and degenerates our very souls! I am sorry for the rant, I realize that most of the Americans on ATS are of a higher intellectual standing and i apologize to any of you that were insulted because that was not my intention!

Folks on ATS have been clamoring for, almost WISHING for an attack by the US or Israel on Iran for the last 5 years just so they can vilify the US further. Now its been replaced with Syria. Its almost like those who hate the US are mad that the US or Israel has not attacked yet. Everey week its "wait til nbext week, month, year" you can see it coming. Yeah? Well if that is your argument its been coming for 5 years and it still hasnt.

Originally posted by kennylee
I don't think Iran should have Nukes and with that being said, I don't think the US should be starting another war, or "poking the bear." We should bring all our troops home from the Middle East. We should have never went into Iraq, no more than we should go into Iran.

The whole "stated" purpose was to get Bin Laden, which wasn't in Iraq in the first place. The US should have sent the Navy Seals after him and left rest of the troops home. There was not a need for all the wars, bloodshed and deaths, but we all know that Bin Laden was only a proxy.

I dont know the solution for Iran and the nuke situation, but it sure isn't another war. Negotiations should be completely exhausted and I dont feel like they have been yet.

Why in the world would USA want to negotiate? We are starting the war so it would be senseless to try and negotiate a way out. The same people who give billions to politicians and bureaucrats make trillions on war. Follow the money and you will see the players are engaged in building up the civilian war machine and they use CIA and other tools to make their quotas.

A couple more gems from Mark Twain:

Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.

And this beauty:

My invariable practice in war has been to bring out of every fight two-thirds more men than when I went in. This seems to me Napoleonic in its grandeur.