The Bright and Morning Star "Mary" Queen of Heaven and husband Allah

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

And while it is 100% false that Allah was ever worshipped as a moon god or that the moon symbol associated with Islam had anything to do with Him....

I disagree. I say Allah was worshipped as a Moon God in ancient Times. Allah is also Feminine form, akin to the Spanish language where "La" means feminine. Here are some links to the history of what we are talking about here.

The True Origin of 'Allah': The Archaeological Record Speaks

Allah - the Moon God

Is Allah the Name of God?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Notur,

I'm going to get to you as soon as I find your question!

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Babylon hasn't fallen yet, that isn't set to happen yet. Muhammad didn't write the Quran, he captured a christian and a jew and told them he'd spare their lives if they wrote him a holy book and so they agreed, but the jew self destructed and encoded the words "i do not believe" and "this does not matter" all throughout the Quran. After the book was finished Muhammad beheaded them both. Avi Lipkin did a segment on it at the bible prophecy club.

I hadn't heard that before. I'll take a look at the video.

Is there any other support for this claim that I can take a look at?

Thanks!

Eric

If you are really interested in the truth then let me tell you. The Holy Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) by the angel Gabriel while he was meditating in the Cave of Hira, same as the Gospel was revealed to Jesus while he was praying at the Mount of Olives.

My question is, is not the Word of Your Creator enough as a witness? Allah himself testified that it was He who had caused the Holy Qur'an to be revealed to the Prophet Muhammad through the trusted Spirit Gabriel, so who would you rather believe, Allah, Your Creator who is the Knower of all things hidden, or a man who is in manifest error, whose signature alone proclaims a lie that is so hateful to Allah.

2:97 Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who bath revealed (this Scripture) to thy heart by Allah's leave, confirming that which was revealed before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers;

2:98 Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers

6:19 Say (O Muhammad) : What thing is of most weight in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in truth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One God. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him).

If you want to know the truth about the Holy Qur'an and Islam, you can ask any Muslim, if you want to hear lies and misconceptions, you can ask the OP. The choice is yours.

7:204 And when the Qur'an is recited, give ear to it and pay heed, that ye may obtain mercy.

Peace!

reply to post by autowrench

Here are some links to the history of what we are talking about here.

Hi. I just noticed that all your links are from anti-islam/ pro-christian websites.

Are you ok with muslims refuting your post with links to pro-islam sites? Or is it not valid when muslims frame their arguments by posting links to muslim sites?

reply to post by queenofangels_17


I would ask the same of you that I asked the OP. If you have supporting evidence for your claim, please present it.

I've read through a number of the claims of internal support of the divine provenance of the Quran and don't find them convincing. I've also read way too many arguments that amount to 'the Quran is true and infallible because the Quran says it is so and it is an unimpeachable source as it is true and infallible'.

Thanks,

Eric

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I never saw him mention that he was religious, then again I haven't read all 10 pages, so I apologize if I missed that point. Either way, it still goes to reason that many major religions (if not all) use the crescent moon symbolically, which is not a coincidence in my opinion. I think it is you that believes it is a mere coincidence, hence the fact that you are debating the OP in the first place.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

You just reinforced his theory with this post, lol. His whole point is that ALL RELIGION IS BASED ON THE SAME THING.

Except.... he sees his religion as being an exemption to the point that " ALL RELIGION IS BASED ON THE SAME THING. "

His whole point is that the crescent symbolism is NOT a coincidence.

Again, its pure speculation on his part.
Like I said earlier.. he sees a crescent moon here and a crescent moon there....and makes an imaginary connection...between the two. I'd still like to hear his take on the crescent moon symbolism in hinduism and sikhism... which are NOT middle eastern religions.

That "same thing" would be the worship of Heylel. Hilal in Arabic.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

The month of Ramadan is determined by cycles of the moon. At one particular point in the month the phase depicted above happens and the crescent moon swallows the "star". So the crescent moon has been a part of Islam for as long as the month of Ramadan has been in existence and this is why the minarettes on mosques have a crescent moon ontop of them. Ofcourse this ritual dates back to the pre-islamic days of Hajj when Muhammad and his father would walk around the Kaaba 7 times for remission of sins (just like muslim do today).

Facepalm! The month of Ramadan existed prior to Islam. And tha tis not why Mosques have moons on top of the minarets. I explained that, with A SOURCE, on a previous post that you completely ignored. Here it is again!

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

reply to post by autowrench


Allah is not feminine form

Al-ilah means The God. Goddess in arabic is ilat. That's the "feminine form."

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


lonewolf19792000, I enjoyed the informative well presented OP It makes alot of sense how you have laid it out. It seems the more minds WITHIN THE COLLECTIVE who try to piece things together do so MORE IS MAKING SENSE. With that keep up the good work I used to get a little confused when I would read about the mother above the cresent moon, and you have helped me to understand it in a better LIGHT*

NAMASTE*******

What bothers me is the depth of chasing the trails to what is just nonsense. The religions are control boxes, and they work very hard to slam dunk people into these barbaric boxes. These ugly, smiting, puntive, fascist boxes.
But allah doesnt have a wife. What Allah is coded to is Saturn/Santa, and you can guess the other anagram. So is the Jewish. Christ was a little different, he pointed out who their daddy was and that this wasn't God/Goodness. Now that again is a box, so I don't want to slander that the box is possilby a conglomerate of ETs some more negative and some more positive, they may even have put into one Figure Head For Their Dicatorial God, some of the bigger names of both sides. Who knows how they did it, who really cares......its their negative crap how they do things.

But Patriarchal smiting figures don't have women as their wives, maybe concubines or something. They are machos' and male militia, and reptiliian brains.

An example of opposite in ufology is this: most of the advanced races are predominantly seen as more matriarchal, and have alot of women running the sciences and labs and even as commanders, and the word commander is different than our military word, would be more like a top light worker, a gifted teacher, instructor, something different than we think. Now matriarchal is used loosely because it merely means "equality". Based on the level at which women cow tow to men, reflects on the frequency or grade of the race. Any suppression or pandering to the male ego in any way means this is not a high frequency race.

Start to figure out the truth and you will see a bunch of codings and an interesting game for novices and seekers, to think they're cluing in.

But its really just an ugly,dirty, corporate based, empire of abuse, brutality, that uses underhanded things to try and corrupt the intelligence and polarity of souls to have slaves.

And they don't like women, for that is equality.

edit to add: just thought I should clarify, patriarchy versus matriarchy. These words are divisive. But it takes a paragraph to describe what is meant rather than one word. So, its more about, what kind of behaviors and ideas exist within each umbrella. What a more patriarchal system is like, the attributes, or what a more matriarchal society is like, the attributes.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


That's a great point about the collective. Religion's main purpose is to keep us divided and to make us feel as though we are inferior in some way. If we feel that we are inferior then we are easier to manipulate, and when we we're easy to manipulate that gives others power over us. It also teaches people that this life doesn't really matter, that what matters is after this lif, and we can just skate along doing the bare minimum and as long as we believe in god, we will be sent to heaven and be happy forever. But I have news for them, we are in heaven now, and the universe is what the bible is speaking of when it says heaven. Jesus says that in order to get into heaven you must be 'born again'. When we are reincarnated after we die, we are literally born again, and we are born back into this universe, which is heaven.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

So are you then going on record to state that the Hadiths are not authoritative?? That's a little semantics game Muslims play. No, the Quran doesn't, however the Hadiths are a completely different story. So please tell us what it says in the Hadiths about slaughtering infidels.

If the Hadith is contradicting the Holy Qur'an then it means that the hadith or narration is false. Are you referring to the Holy Qur'an verses about slaughtering infidels or hadith? I don't know of any hadith 9:5 but I do know about Chapter 9 verse 5 which states :

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

To be able to understand this verse in the right context you must also read the verse preceding it and the verse coming after it, this is not an all out order to slay the infidels as you are trying to make it appear. This verse is about fighting the pagans who renege on their treaties.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

9:4 Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. As for these, fulfill their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)

9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

Here Allah is telling the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) to protect the infidels who seek protection, so that they may hear the word of Allah, and afterward to convey him to his place of safety.

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Quran. Nowhere in the Quran can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Quran 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love and friendship between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power over all things, and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

If all Muslims take this verse in the context you have given it, there won't be too much infidels around, don't you think? More than 1 billion of us and here we are just trying to explain our faith to you in gentle words that haply you may understand.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

The month of Ramadan is determined by cycles of the moon. At one particular point in the month the phase depicted above happens and the crescent moon swallows the "star". So the crescent moon has been a part of Islam for as long as the month of Ramadan has been in existence and this is why the minarettes on mosques have a crescent moon ontop of them. Ofcourse this ritual dates back to the pre-islamic days of Hajj when Muhammad and his father would walk around the Kaaba 7 times for remission of sins (just like muslim do today).

You're scaring me now, Lonewolf. You can't be serious, can you? There are loads of trolls on these forums asking barbed questions and throwing out random accusations and statements just to keep an argument going or something, but I've seen you around for a couple years now, and while we rarely agree on stuff , I know you are not one of them. Do you know how the moon works? Do you know how calendars work? Do you know what a "month" is? This is all basic stuff. Surely you are joking?

The situation you show in the image (with the conveniently positioned moon and star) happens something like once every hundred years or something. It has absolutely no significance at all in Islam. If muslims set their calendars by having Ramadan when "the crescent moon swallows the star", some people would live their entire lives without having the month of Ramadan, instead of it happening ever single year.

You know the calendar Jesus used (important for the religious days, and the passover and such)? Muslims use the EXACT SAME Calendar, except while the jews added a month or two every couple years to keep the lunar months in line with the seasons, the muslims do not. As a result, the Islamic year is usually shorter by a couple of days than the solar year, and it moves through the seasons.

The new moon signifies a new month, the full moon shows the middle of the month, and when the moon wanes and another new moon shows, another month has started (could be Ramadan, or any of the other 11 months, for a total of approximately 360 days in a year.

I am worried that I have to be explaining these things. Makes me scared of where you are getting your information from. To be so insulated and removed from the daily workings of the world around you....scary.

I'm still waiting for your response to my original post here, by the way!

Originally posted by EricD
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

I would ask the same of you that I asked the OP. If you have supporting evidence for your claim, please present it.

I've read through a number of the claims of internal support of the divine provenance of the Quran and don't find them convincing. I've also read way too many arguments that amount to 'the Quran is true and infallible because the Quran says it is so and it is an unimpeachable source as it is true and infallible'.

Thanks,


Eric

Eric,

Only God can prove it to you if He wills.

17:89 And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes, but most of mankind refuse aught save disbelief.

17:90 And they say: We will not put faith in thee till thou cause a spring to gush forth from the earth for us;

17:91 Or thou have a garden of date palms and grapes, and cause rivers to gush forth therein abundantly;

17:92 Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us piecemeal, as thou hast pretended, or bring Allah and the angels as a warrant;

17:93 Or thou have a house of gold; or thou ascend up into heaven, and even then we will put no faith in thine ascension till thou bring down for us a book that we can read. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord be glorified! Am I naught save a mortal messenger?

17:94 And naught prevented mankind from believing when the guidance came unto them save that they said: Hath Allah sent a mortal as (His) messenger?

17:95 Say: If there were in the earth angels walking secure, We had sent down for them from heaven an angel as messenger.

17:96 Say: Allah sufficeth for a witness between me and you Lo! He is Knower, Seer of His slaves.

The disbelievers of the perished generations are more hard disbelievers, according to the Holy Qur'an.

2:55 And when ye said: O Moses! We will not believe in thee till we see Allah plainly; and even while ye gazed the lightning seized you.

4:153 The People of the Scripture ask of thee that thou shouldst cause an (actual) Book to descend upon them from heaven. They asked a greater thing of Moses aforetime, for they said: Show us Allah plainly. The storm of lightning seized them for their wickedness. Then even after that they chose the calf for worship after clear proofs of Allah's Sovereignty had come unto them. And We forgave them that! And We bestowed on Moses evident authority.

The Prophet Muhammad is only a messenger of God, and his duty is only to convey the message. Whoever believes it is for the good of his own soul and whoever disbelieves is only being unfair to his soul.

29:18 But if ye deny, then nations have denied before you. The messenger is only to convey the Message plainly.

64:12 Obey Allah and obey His messenger; but if ye turn away, then the duty of Our messenger is only to convey the message plainly.

One final note, if you really are interested to know if the Holy Qur'an is the true word of God, then let your heart decide, read it for yourself, it is divided in 114 Chapters and you can read them little by little in your own time. Give your soul a chance to find out the Truth and be free!

Here is the Holy Qur'an, please say I seek refuge in Allah from the rejected Satan.. before you start reading. Open your heart and your mind and set aside any misconceptions you have, if Allah wills then He will anser your question.

www.sacred-texts.com...

Peace!

reply to post by queenofangels_17


God wants so badly for us to believe that he exists, that's what he wants more than anything else is it not? So why doesn't he prove it himself? Why can't he let himself be known? He has everything at his disposal to prove it, yet he doesn't do it, why is that?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


He has made Himself known. Numerous times throughout human history.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
God wants so badly for us to believe that he exists, that's what he wants more than anything else is it not? So why doesn't he prove it himself? Why can't he let himself be known? He has everything at his disposal to prove it, yet he doesn't do it, why is that?

Open your eyes, it is AMAZING what you will see...



Jesus Appears to 24 Satanists During Blood Ritual

Muslims Encountering Jesus In Unusual Dreams

Khalil was a sholar who was asked to research the Bible, so he could convince others about its fault. (he was forced to do the research, he didn't like to touch the bible.)

"A radical Islamic terrorist from Egypt changed from a murderous "Saul" to a forgiving "Paul" after Jesus Christ visited him in a soul-penetrating dream. This hater of both Christians and Jews set out to discredit the Bible, but instead, he was transformed when Jesus appeared to him and changed his heart."

"In a dream, he saw a man, who came to him and told him that he was the one for whom Khalil had been searching. Khalil didn’t know who the man was. The man told him to look in the Book (the Bible). Khalil said the Book and all his papers were lost, to which the man replied, “The book never gets lost. Get up and open your closet and you will find it. The rest of your papers will be returned to you by the end of the week.”

"Khalil woke up from the dream and opened his closet. His very own copy of the Bible was inside the closet on a shelf."

Muslim Encounters with Jesus

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

He has made Himself known. Numerous times throughout human history.

I actually AGREE with Abdullah, now THAT'S a miracle!

One more video that makes this point very obvious:

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

"I ended up going out into this field by his house and, falling to the ground, I began to curse God and spit at the name of Jesus; I began to claw the earth and said,“Satan, give me what I want, and I’ll twist and take as many people as I can to hell with music.”

Two days later, a guy who had been working as our manager called and said, “Look, there’s a record label and they want to know how much you would want to go into the studio and what budget you’d need to record.”

Read Full Story...

Heavy metal rocker Kirk Martin made a pact with the devil. But then one day a mysterious stranger pinpointed Kirk's deepest secret and Kirk began a journey to God.

"I was sitting in a fast food restaurant in early morning," said Kirk. "I was rarely awake in the early mornings—I was drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette when this old man walked in. He was about 5 foot 3 with a white bushy beard and hair, a big red nose, and he wore a little black yarmulke and a trench coat. He came in, got coffee and sat down right across from me.

Immediately I got in his face and said, 'What's up Pops?' He answered, 'What's up Pops?' I said, 'What's up Dad?' He said, 'What's up Dad?' (Imitating me) I got mad because he was mocking me, so I jumped across the table and screamed every foul, disgusting word I could possibly think of. He literally didn't budge. (Most people were scared of me—I could walk across an intersection and hear people locking their doors!)

But, this man just looked me in the eye and said, 'Jesus sent me here to tell you that He loves you.' My first gut reaction was to jump up and rip his eyeballs out of his head. But before I could get my feet to tell the rest of my body to jump, he said, 'And He wants you to know that He wasn't responsible for these young men molesting you when you were a little boy.' The interesting thing was, he called them by name. I had never told anyone that in my life.

Kirk was shocked. "I felt like someone cut my feet off and all the blood drained from my body. It honestly freaked me out; I didn't know what to think. Then the guy got up and said, 'Jesus loves you and He's waiting for you to turn your face toward home,' and he walked out. I was literally paralyzed by what had just happened, but when I got my composure back, I jumped up and ran after him because I had to know how he knew all that. The guy had to be no more than 15 or 20 feet ahead of me; he turned a corner, went behind a row of hedges and just disappeared. I never saw him again."

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

According to Islamic tradition, this event (Night of Vision) occurred on the 27th day of the month of Ramadan. It was then that Muhammad allegedly had his encounter with the “angel” who revealed the Quran. Ramadan is the same month during which Muslims fast from dawn to dusk, basing the fasting season on the appearance of the moon. These words, in fact, parallel Scripture regarding Satan (the Dawn) being cast out of heaven, and taking one third of the angels with him.

It may also be interesting to note that the very sin of Lucifer in this passage as defined by the phrase uttered in his heart; “I will ascend… I will be like the Most High”. The word for ascend in Hebrew is Alah, the name used of course by Muslims for God. In the same way that Allah has laid claim to the title of Almighty God of the universe, despite the fact that he is simply an Arabian moon god, so also Lucifer’s desire was and is to be exalted as an equal to God Almighty. And so as if the divine hint found in the word Heylal, meaning both Lucifer and Crescent Moon is not enough, so also in the very same passage—the use of the word Alah for Lucifer’s sin—may indeed be another prophetic hint unveiling the identity of that ancient and very evil being hiding behind the title of Allah.

Heylel is Allah

He is Heylel ben Shachar "Crescent moon and Star".