One of the hardest "video games" possible: Voluntary Death

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
One of the ones that will be available to us eventually is to immerse a person in a game where they forget they are playing a game. I don't mean virtual reality where your senses can't tell the difference... I mean you "wake up" as Guybrush Threepwood in an 8 bit 2D Monkey Island and you TRULY believe you are Guybrush, that the world as you see is real and the only one, and have to figure out how to get out.

Reading this part kind of blew my mind.


It would make perfect sense if we really were in a simulation. Imagine sitting in another dimension, and we agree to play a full lifetime here on a simulated planet to learn valuable lessons and become more 'experienced' and 'evolved'.

But there's a catch... once the simulation starts we forget everything and don't know anything other than the simulation we are in, so we believe that all this is real, as we have temporarily forgotten everything else. It's the only way that a learning experience like this could work. If we knew it was fake, we wouldn't really come out on the other side with genuine insight and experiences, because we would be saying "well it doesn't really matter, we're just virtual beings anyways". We would have to have our original awareness erased so we would take this experience seriously for the time being.

The 'game' starts from the moment of birth, and that's when the memory is wiped clean. When we die, the game ends, and the real 'you' in another dimension regains the original awareness, gets up from his/her chair and says "God damn, I need a cigarette after that one!"

And then a few hours later we move onto a new virtual 'life' (reincarnation)

[Insert obligatory Bill Hicks quote here]

This is all just speculation and rambling, but it's so interesting to think about. It makes so much sense after reading some of the posts in this thread.

I have to say that this is actually quite horrific and terrifying....yes I read your opening statement.

Waking up thinking and believing that you are a video game just "sounds" like there could be a whole crap load of consequences and ramifications.

Will this lead to people believing that self perpetuated death is glorifying? Will it leave children fatherless?

Death is beautiful in its own way. I know!

reply to post by cloudwatcher


when what the OP is speaking of is ready to come about,,,, the ideals and customs and traditions of human past will already be so blurred.,.,,.., in the past 100 years can you comprehend how much modernity the human has adopted,,, from cell phones to internet,, to computers,,, to high speed travel,,,. tv.,.,,. and think about how much this has changed our daily lives,,, what we are capable of,, and how we internally process ourselves and surroundings,, our leisures and comforts,,.,.., when what the OP is speaking of is able to be done,,, i imagine there will already be household robots,,, and nano bio tech,, and androids,,, so although domestication and good behavior are probably traits civilization will hold on to,,, if your worried about a brave fearless childs saftey i say fear not,,,,, for that child will probably be invincible,,, and smarter then all humans who have been before it,,,,,

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


Interesting concept, quite reasonable in both its practical application (at some point, obviously we are not at the point of preserving and then wiping one's consciousness) and philosophical possibility of our current reality.

I do think, however, that this is not necessary:

- The only way to "win" and be allowed to stop playing is to CHOOSE to die.
- If you die but didn't CHOOSE to die, you start over from scratch.

Without retained memory, there is no reason to suppose that suicide would "win", so winning would be arbitrary and associated with behaviour that likely had nothing to do with the game itself.

Somehow I keep thinking about the Holodeck on starship enterprise , after reading this OP

On its holodeck there is even a difficulty level (klingons anyone?) where you could die.

so imagine a little injection, and you wake up in the holodeck believing it is reality.

to add spice to it, hook up your personal holodeck to the internet for some MMORPG holo action.

and yes, i believe that this will be available in the (maybe not so) distant future

just think about 2Pacs recent performance as a hologram on stage

reply to post by Xaphan

What you say here is very logical. Dreams, for example, could just be a training program that our brain uses - when we're sleeping - to simulate reality and to learn from it. When we dream we actually think it's real so perhaps this is intended because our brain is supposed to learn from the experiences. Like you say, if we didn't think it's real, the value of the experiences would plummet.

Maybe we're a dream the universe is having and it thinks it's real just like we think dreams are real. So is it us that wakes up from our dream and knows it was a dream or is it the universe dreaming that it woke up from a dream? If we're the universe dreaming then what dreamed the universe?

What happens when the universe wakes up from its dream?

In a dream the experience-r thinks it's real. So is reality a dream too?

I doubt very much that reality is a dream, but I have to ask the question. Ultimately, I do not know what reality is. I only know that reality is scary and painful so humans seek peace and health.

Originally posted by cloudwatcher
I have to say that this is actually quite horrific and terrifying....yes I read your opening statement.

Waking up thinking and believing that you are a video game just "sounds" like there could be a whole crap load of consequences and ramifications.

But don't you do something incredibly similar every time you are birthed?

If we achieve the same effects through science that spirituality already provides, doesn't this mean we are emulating the natural realm more closely than ever?

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


Kind of like in the proposed GWAR video game. Where the only way for Oderus to die was for him to cut off and eat his own head.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by cloudwatcher
I have to say that this is actually quite horrific and terrifying....yes I read your opening statement.

Waking up thinking and believing that you are a video game just "sounds" like there could be a whole crap load of consequences and ramifications.

But don't you do something incredibly similar every time you are birthed?

If we achieve the same effects through science that spirituality already provides, doesn't this mean we are emulating the natural realm more closely than ever?

There's a difference between thinking reality -is- a video game and thinking reality -resembles- a video game. In one case, you treat it like a game. In the other, you examine its similarities and keep what works and discard what doesn't. For example, pilots using fly-by-wire equipped aircraft and HUDs are using a control scheme similar to some games that gives them feedback in much the same way. However, the missiles and consequences of combat are real, unlike in a game where they're not. There're various features in games that might be useful in RL, like teleportation pads and floating names and HP and range meters. Imagine flying an aircraft at night and not being able to identify the enemy aircraft by sight alone and so having to depend on the flight software to identify them for you. That's like a game. All it's doing is making information accessible so you can use it effectively.

All of the combat and killing in games should probably not be used in RL.

Oh... ooops. I guess I don't have a choice in the matter. The OS overrided my request:

*Request Denied* Debug: Request() 30218hx0000172 - "Killing is necessary." X-OS 8.43 (c)

reply to post by Cuervo

Interestingly, I was reading one of your old threads when I bumped into some replies I made:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Always fun to bump into something old(er) that I wrote. I never get it that I wrote it at first. At the end of the first paragraph in the first link is when I looked at the username. I can't explain why I looked. Something in the wording or arrangement of ideas made me look, maybe.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Interestingly, I was reading one of your old threads when I bumped into some replies I made:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Always fun to bump into something old(er) that I wrote. I never get it that I wrote it at first. At the end of the first paragraph in the first link is when I looked at the username. I can't explain why I looked. Something in the wording or arrangement of ideas made me look, maybe.

edit on 11-7-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

I remember those replies and remember starring them. Your view interested me because on one hand, you believe in the inevitable and painful evolution that an apex of technology and society would bring but on the other hand, you also believed it necessary. I totally agree but I'm just a bit more hopeful about the outcome.

Being a Admin, I control all of what the "programers" see, have access to, all the connections, all the Data, and with one push of a button I can make it all go away. Heck I control the temperature of the building, the access to the doors and much, much more!

No wonder Admins of call themselves God...


Frankly if this is a Game, suicide is cheating and you will be reset. You took an easy way out instead of fullfilling your mission!

reply to post by Cuervo

If we achieve the same effects through science that spirituality already provides, doesn't this mean we are emulating the natural realm more closely than ever?

Science serves to prove spirituality. I will agree with this concept. But I do not believe that science can emulate or recreate a genuine spiritual experience. Spirit and flesh are 2 different things. Neither of which, understands the other.

Achieving these wonderful technological breakthroughs, in my opinion, only serves to separate us further from the "natural" realm.

reply to post by cloudwatcher


that is good and true,,,, but what if the natural realm isnt as pure and natural as you imagine,,,, or what if anything that can be done in and with nature,, is by nature,,, natural,.,.,.,, what isnt nature? what can happen that is not natural?

reply to post by ImaFungi


To me, nature or the natural state of things is unaltered from its original form. No additives or preservatives.
Food, grown from the ground, is natural and has many benefits. Take this food, and alter it using our scientific knowledge, it will still have benefits, but now, it also has consequences. Does things to the human body that they are just now starting to realize. Sure, it looked good for a minute because maybe it allowed for a bigger crop which in turn allows them to feed more people. But at what cost down the road?



Shrooms anyone? LOL couldn't resist...love your name

reply to post by cloudwatcher


I would agree with you,,.,.., but knowing what nutritiants, vitamins, minerals, and proteins the human body needs, and may thrive with,,,, i can imagine there potentially being positive consequences of tampering with natural foods and making them healthier,,, or making artificially created foods that are perfectly healthy and beyond nutritionally giving then items found naturally in nature..,.,,. are cats and dogs unnatural now that we have more or less created them with our "unnatural" tendencies? its a conspiracy why not all food created is perfectly healthy, and designed to excel the human mind and body in the most perfect ways,, ,.,.,.

oh and what i really wanted to and attempted to "get at" with by questioning the concept of natural and unnatural is,.,., humans came about on earth seemingly naturally,,,,along with nature and the natural ways of the universe,,,, humans came about and without interference they do the things they do,,,,, if we objectively look at this,,,, how can anything a natural human does be unnatural,,, this is what i meant before,,,, if we observe a human and what they do,,, isnt every moment of their existence naturally occurring? we mine metals out of the rocks and make computers and robots and artificial intelligence,,,, in the same natural manner single celled organisms mined chemicals and elements and energies to build their structures,,,

I dig your name tags too,,,, and avatar!!! was that image inspired by you in any way

Originally posted by cloudwatcher
reply to post by Cuervo

 

If we achieve the same effects through science that spirituality already provides, doesn't this mean we are emulating the natural realm more closely than ever?

Science serves to prove spirituality. I will agree with this concept. But I do not believe that science can emulate or recreate a genuine spiritual experience. Spirit and flesh are 2 different things. Neither of which, understands the other.

Achieving these wonderful technological breakthroughs, in my opinion, only serves to separate us further from the "natural" realm.

I see "techno shamans" in our future. I embrace both sides enthusiastically but I fully understand your perspective and think it's equally as valid as mine.

You can't go wrong by sticking to your roots.

Killing oneself flies in the face of humanity ...and, for argument's sake, defies the intention of any possible 'creator' that may (or likely not) exist. There is no excuse for it and suicide demonstrates only human weakness and abject flaw. It's a sure fire indication of brain damage, in fact.

The survival mechanism is the most fundamental trait of any living thing. Ignore this and you've indeed become 'nothing'.

I love video games, FPS and MMORPG and I have always wanted a game that gave you one life, especially PvP.

People would treat the game with a completely different perspective if their character died and did not respawn.

It probably would not be very popular but I would enjoy the aspect of permanent death.

In an infinite universe with infinite possibilities this is happening right now.