Columbia PhD in Ancient History destroys Christianity and Jesus

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


in English He pronounced it like Jesus
.

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by NotReallyASecret

 

Events in the "gospels" have been proven to have happened.
So to say they are 100% myth would be lying to everyone and yourself.

I watched the video, and I think the guy has a solid argument. Somehow I doubt the responses in this thread involve any viewing of the video at all.

Please provide 1 event in the gospels that has been proven to have taken place. Just 1 event, I can do the research for myself. Thanks.

edit on 10-7-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God John5

For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

yep

Originally posted by OrchusGhule
Come on, I'm sure you know of at least a few. There was a number of individuals who claimed to be the messiah of Jews or whose followers reformed their story into that of a messiah.

...

I'll bow out of this one, leave you to your historical searchings, and go to sleep. Good night.

Well, that's a bit of a cop out, but the question remains -- if there were a number of individuals who claimed to be the Messiah, why is it that Jesus is the one that stands out from the crowd? You say that you're sure he's a historical figure outside of the New Testament, but on what do you hang that claim? Saying that there were other claimants doesn't really support your statement.

Sorry to take a bit of an academic approach, but I'd like cites from actual texts to go look at. Scientific method, and all that, you know.

Originally posted by Rustami

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by NotReallyASecret

 

Events in the "gospels" have been proven to have happened.
So to say they are 100% myth would be lying to everyone and yourself.

I watched the video, and I think the guy has a solid argument. Somehow I doubt the responses in this thread involve any viewing of the video at all.

Please provide 1 event in the gospels that has been proven to have taken place. Just 1 event, I can do the research for myself. Thanks.

edit on 10-7-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God John5

For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

yep

You can verily say anything you like, and yet the act of saying a thing does not make it true, or even relevant to anything for that matter. I don't involve myself in that type of one-sided "discussion" in which the spewing forth of biblical quotes is supposed to hold value, because for me they hold none.

I prefer to discuss a topic as I have with these other two persons in the posts above.

reply to post by OrchusGhule


no you seem to have missed it...you asked for prophetic scriptures, if you look at my post above the one you responded to about His name, you will notice " He said" as in-

the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God..1Timothy

or this one in Hebrews 7-

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

like when Paul first believed-

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts9

reply to post by NotReallyASecret


Craig destroys Carrier. Jesus lives. As with all of our narrative history, inducing today, the reflecting point of truth will show the reverse in the image. No matter where you look in this reality, it will reveal the sides of good and evil, as in a mirror. Example:

Aliester Crowley (Freemason) said, ""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matt 7:12

For all of us, the nature of our own character will reveal which reflection we see. Both exist. The question is not the truth behind truth. The question is which side of truth our own characters gravitate toward. Faith is a requirement for either side. Salvation requires our choice to move toward the correct side of truth. In the end, darkness will be separated from the light. Only the light will remain. God stands in the light and welcomes us to the side that bears fruit for others rather than self. Both fruit exists and we light the fire we burn by.

If you can ever get to the reflecting point of truth, you will never see proof. The closest you can ever get to the fact of the matter is to see the image of good and evil in the reflection. At this point, a choice is made between. All opposites in the reality are examples of this choice between reflecting points.

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

in English He pronounced it like Jesus
.

His name is Yeshua, or Yehoshua. I can assure you no one was calling him Jesus when he was ministering, no one spoke english back then. His hebrew name is Yeshua and it is his real name and the one he should be called by. The letter J didn't exist until about 500 years ago.

reply to post by Cuervo


Did you say...historical documents? I just gotta do this because it reminded me of...Galaxy Quest.



Everytime i watched that movie i'd almost die laughing.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I assure you when an invisible eternal being visits you at a NDE and says in an audible voice "I am Jesus..believe in Me and you will never perish" (obviously above all authority and immortal) all other name arguments fail.

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
Jesus is not real

Skip to 28:00

edit on 10-7-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

People like this need to be shot. Thinking their opinion is higher than everyone else. You know people like this are the first ones to throw me and you under the bus but whatever...I like getting screwed over by my fellow man.

Anyways...whats the point? The Bible and religion is a good path of morals and values. The peeps who have become violent because of religion twist and take advantage over these morals and values for THEIR cause. It's human nature. So a true believer of Christ and God would claim non-denominational for the very fact that a lot of hypocrites and back stabbers go to church. It's the same in every religion but once again it is human nature.

The one thing I love the most, is the very fact that people like this are so focused on destroying one thing and not giving the same treatment to other religions because if you go after one, well you better be going after them all. Not to mention the fact that Christianity is not the fast growing religion...it's actually dying. While the Islamic religion is vastly growing and has become the #1 religion in the world...............but no one is trying to take them down besides governments. How Ironic it is when someone bashes Christianity, because they are afraid.

Flagged for later.

Here's another video with one of the same debaters. Except this one has many more views and a plethora of input from both sides.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret

Originally posted by Numbers33four
The historicity of Jesus is well established.

It's well established Jesus was a God???

No, that he was a real person. I thank you for the link. As I listen to it I'm struck that this young man can't see the forest for the trees. If I may recommend a book to you, check out The Five Gospels which does not contradict this poor fellow, but adds a bit of depth to the issues involved.

You might be surprised that in many seminaries, the basic conclusion is that Jesus was a charismatic man with a message, and that's all. In any case, this man's "revelation" that the gospels are "full of myth" is kind of like saying "water is wet." Myth and metaphor are how people told stories before the advent of the printing press and the internet. Finding myth in the gospels doesn't really dismiss them, as this fellow seems to think. Like many anti-Christians, he takes the stories literally, points out they cannot be true, and dismisses them, apparently thinking people really believe them and take them literally.

He, and other anti-Christians, might be surprised to learn that theologians are not stupid, literal people. They know full well that the earth is not 6,000 years old, that Eve did not eat a real apple, that Noah did not hold a concert for everyone on the ark.

When I listen to him I'm thinking he is terribly superficial here. He obviously does not begin to understand some of the deeper elements he is skimming over. I would be surprised if he knows about or can comprehend Quelle, for example. He's a kind of guy who read the Bible and Bertrand Russell (If I must tell you, he wrote "Why I am not a Christian") then called it good. He forgot to read Albert Schweitzer ("The Qwest for the Historical Jesus"). he has no appreciation for the more complex issues.

Obviously, this issue is far bigger than a concocted university debate. We can't solve the issues here on this thread. But as for this kid "destroying Christianity and Jesus." Not a chance. He doesn't even come close. If he thinks he does, he's delusional.

BTW, in conventional terms, I consider myself an atheist, so please don't type me as a misty-eyed believer.

Cheers.

He was debating weather or not Jesus rose from the dead. Not if Jesus ever lived. Please watch the whole vid.

Originally posted by johngrissom

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
Jesus is not real

Skip to 28:00

edit on 10-7-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

People like this need to be shot. Thinking their opinion is higher than everyone else. You know people like this are the first ones to throw me and you under the bus but whatever...I like getting screwed over by my fellow man.

Anyways...whats the point? The Bible and religion is a good path of morals and values. The peeps who have become violent because of religion twist and take advantage over these morals and values for THEIR cause. It's human nature. So a true believer of Christ and God would claim non-denominational for the very fact that a lot of hypocrites and back stabbers go to church. It's the same in every religion but once again it is human nature.

The one thing I love the most, is the very fact that people like this are so focused on destroying one thing and not giving the same treatment to other religions because if you go after one, well you better be going after them all. Not to mention the fact that Christianity is not the fast growing religion...it's actually dying. While the Islamic religion is vastly growing and has become the #1 religion in the world...............but no one is trying to take them down besides governments. How Ironic it is when someone bashes Christianity, because they are afraid.

Orrrr...... Maybe he just wanted to focus on a debate against one guy on one religion rather then taking on every religion in the world? Maybe in America he comes in to more contact with Christians then he does Muslims? Gosh... Maybe that they were right when they said that people who follow religion have a lower intelligence in general. I didnt believe it at first but listening to yourself and the other slaves out there i think you guys changed my mind.

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by NotReallyASecret

 

Events in the "gospels" have been proven to have happened.
So to say they are 100% myth would be lying to everyone and yourself.

I used to be a saved Christian, and read all sorts of apologetics, so please don't bull# me.

I also had my name in the book. I am curious what made you wake up? Was it the duplicity and hypocrisy of the people you were told had their # together? Was it their excuse when you called them out on something that "We are just human". Was it the fact that they never apologize for their wrongdoings? Was it because they are so hate filled toward their enemies? Was it because of their bigotry? Was it from listening to the do as I say and not as I do mentality? Was it because every time you asked them questions they could not answer they just made something up to placate you? Was it their insisting you give 10% and also give more to missionaries and do local work for them free?

Just curious.

Originally posted by onecraftydude

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by NotReallyASecret

 

Events in the "gospels" have been proven to have happened.
So to say they are 100% myth would be lying to everyone and yourself.

I used to be a saved Christian, and read all sorts of apologetics, so please don't bull# me.

I also had my name in the book. I am curious what made you wake up? Was it the duplicity and hypocrisy of the people you were told had their # together? Was it their excuse when you called them out on something that "We are just human". Was it the fact that they never apologize for their wrongdoings? Was it because they are so hate filled toward their enemies? Was it because of their bigotry? Was it from listening to the do as I say and not as I do mentality? Was it because every time you asked them questions they could not answer they just made something up to placate you? Was it their insisting you give 10% and also give more to missionaries and do local work for them free?

Just curious.

Sounds like the religion that you belonged to was called Peopleanity and not Christianity. Maybe you should have taken your eyes and ears off of others and focused on Christ. Not judging, just think it could have saved you alot of trouble

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I assure you when an invisible eternal being visits you at a NDE and says in an audible voice "I am Jesus..believe in Me and you will never perish" (obviously above all authority and immortal) all other name arguments fail.

Obviously he would use what you knew him by but his name is Yeshua and...i don't believe in NDE's. I've been dead before and i didn't see a blooming thing, didn't know a blooming thing either, nothing but darkness which for me supports the soul sleep theory where you cease to know or exist until the resurrection.

Originally posted by onecraftydude
I also had my name in the book. I am curious what made you wake up?
Just curious.

There is one strand of Tibetan Buddhism that has more miracles, and of better quality than Jesus even into recent times.

Its really surprising that people aren't aware of it, even when mentioned by the Dalai Lama etc.

Also Madhyamaka actively disproves God.

P.S. Taking refuge in Jesus is not harmless, like many claim. If you take refuge in Jesus you miss out on the real teachings.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
Flagged for later.

Here's another video with one of the same debaters. Except this one has many more views and a plethora of input from both sides.

You know about the Carrier vs Ehrman blog fight right?

reply to post by NotReallyASecret


I am curious to know about this Tibeten sect as well as other knoledge you may have. I don't want to derail the thread as i am enjoying reading both sides. Could you provide some information? As far as historical evidence of Jesus, or more properly, Yeshua I think thatit is important to remember that the name was very common in that part of the world at that time. this is something I have been researching as much as possible in my spare time, I have not as of yet drawn any conclusions.

reply to post by NotReallyASecret


i dont need to watch this to know its pure bs.Normally i would counter his logic but im tired of beating a dead horse. No amount of anything is going to change peoples minds on the subject. Faith is Faith its not called knowing for a reason. I beieve people blame Christianity and other Faiths because of the stupid things that have been carried out in its names or they feel like they are adult fairy tales which is very easy to do when you havent tried to live by its rules or view things from its perspective. I belive its only when you walk the path that you truely understand why and for what reason its a rule, even then everyone is a sinner and falls below expectations.To be humble, forgiving,honest ect makes us better people not only in the eyes of a supreme being but also in our fellow man. I believe Faith/hope is mankinds greatest asset, it allows us to belive in a better future when things look its darkest, and to quote spiderman " at the end it allows us to die with dignity and grace" or something like that you get the point