Abductees Are A Fraud

reply to post by Infi8nity


Well, my issue is that relying solely on personal accounts just isn't reliable...given the very human tendency to lie and make stuff up.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Basically, what I see here, is another thread saying "I dont believe it, so it CANNOT be real".

I do love open-mindedness.

edit on 8-7-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

I'm very open-minded. I was actually hoping for a discussion and maybe someone citing cases or explnations I hadn't looked into yet. But yes...I am always a skeptic first. And that...is quite a healthy thing, me thinks.

reply to post by Greensage


I understand your frustration with that rule. However, I believe a lot of thought went into the rule of not allowing the discussion of drugs and medications on this website. There are a lot of unintended consequences to having those discussions. There are liabilities. I think they just decided it would be safer not allowing mention of all drugs or medications because you really don't know who's on line reading stuff and what they will do with information they come across. Think about Web MD and how many people diagnose themselves with terminal diseases when all they have is a cold or gas. Now mix that with this website.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
Boy, you set up a brilliant strawman argument and knocked it right down just as brilliantly.

Basically it's the "It can't be true, therefore it's not true" argument. I think it may have been used before, though....

edit on 7/8/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)

As I stated before.....while I believe that it is more probable that it is not true...I am open to alternate explanations or sources that I haven't looked into myself. I am not closed minded at all but, i do value evidence over stories or oral accounts.

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Basically, what I see here, is another thread saying "I dont believe it, so it CANNOT be real".

I do love open-mindedness.

edit on 8-7-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

I'm very open-minded. I was actually hoping for a discussion and maybe someone citing cases or explnations I hadn't looked into yet. But yes...I am always a skeptic first. And that...is quite a healthy thing, me thinks.

You arent looking for discussion. You labelled, in your op, all abductees as frauds, crazies, or druggies.

There is nothing wrong with being a skeptic. I am one. There is something wrong with making up your mind about something, then disparaging anyone who doesnt agree.

Its kind of like my saying:

All those who dont believe in abductions are absolute morons, are completely naive, or are in denial.

Healthy discussion to follow?

reply to post by Unidentified_Objective


I don't think anything happened. My sister recalls everything though, even to this day. She also, at that time, talked about how roads should have rails so that cars go efficiently and there would be no accidents, etc. She was 3½ years old.

I, however, have a mysterious bit of something in my leg that was discovered when I fell and hit it when I was about 13. It was described as a bit of copper wire with bone grown around it. Hmm. Okay...not gonna take it out? "No,2 he said, "it will float around your body and cause you no trouble". Military doctors, eh?

Oh, and that thing still acts up. Sometimes the area gets hot and sort of vibrates, but not in a way that it can be felt. It's like a magnetic vibration.

My father worked on some pretty secret stuff in the Navy. He spent a good bit of time at the Pentagon. He was one of the programmers for Voyager.

I have seen UFOs many times and as recently (in the company of my then-teenage children) as 2004. We watched them for hours, but since it was New Year's Day and all the shops were closed, we couldn't rush out to get a video cam to record it for you. Bummer, I know, but those are the breaks. Also, one of those egg-shaped vehicles flew right over our apartment building, directly over our heads (top floor, after all) as I was standing at the window with my daughter. Very freaky event. I could describe that and others to you, but you wouldn't believe it anyway without solid evidence. Why waste my breath/fingertips?

There are just so many strange things that have happened in my life that I can't even begin to recount them all to anyone. I would very definitely sound like a lunatic, but it's not necessary. I know they happened and I don't need anyone's validation to be certain of it. I cannot myself recall the abduction, but as I understand it that's quite normal. My sister has described it but I can't even recall her descriptions. What can that mean? I don't know, and clearly some part of me doesn't want to know. But she can remember everything and is happy with the events that transpired. Apparently we were not together the entire time, but I simply cannot recall anything about it. Why would my sister lie so precisely for all these years?

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective

And to clarify....no I do not expect everyone walks around with a camera but, after decades of these claims, I'd expect more evidence and perhaps chance/probability would dictate that at least someone would happen to have a device on them for capturing proof.

You have to remember, portable video cameras such as those found in phones, are relatively new. It's not like everybody used to walk around with a 2 ton beta max ready to capture abductions. There's plenty of reports out there on this subject, heck even I've seen a couple of UFO's........but the last thing on my mind was filming them.

When something extraordinary shows itself, you spend the whole time debating in your own mind what you're actually looking at, trying to relate it to something you know. By the time you go "Hey, that's a UFO" the damned thing's GONE!

You forgot to include waking dreams.

As most people claim to be abducted while in bed.

Waking dreams can account for about 99% of abductions. No need to even mention the other things.

These can seem so real that people can swear blind they saw what they saw, but it was just a dream.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
Boy, you set up a brilliant strawman argument and knocked it right down just as brilliantly.

Basically it's the "It can't be true, therefore it's not true" argument. I think it may have been used before, though....

edit on 7/8/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)

Nothing wrong with a little circular logic now and then, is there?

reply to post by Unidentified_Objective


More than a few abductions occur while you're sleeping or driving a car. Come on. Get a little perspective here. There used to be a time, as I'm sure there are plenty now, when you don't have the camera set up and ready to go. This is life, not reality tv.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Unidentified_Objective

 

The way most human scientists consider themselves "higher up" than animals, do you not think that a more advanced species would think similar?

No reputable scientist would claim that we are "higher up" or "better" than any other animals. Given that we all have a common ancestor, we are "different", not "better." Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but you can't really objectively claim anything is better than anything else, it's all a matter of interpretation. Are fish better at living in water than humans? Does that make them "higher up" than us in terms of adapting to the environment they live in? I digress...

It all comes down to one simple fact. If alien abduction ever had any supporting evidence, it would turn science as we know it upside down. So why hasn't the scientific community taken notice?

I'm a believer in ETs and I do believe they have visited our planet but the abductee thing is hard to swallow ! If they are that much more advanced than we are and have been monitoring us for eons , why wouldn't they abduct homeless people or people in mental institutions or old age homes ? Another thing that baffles me is all the excellent evidence that came out of the 50s, 60s, and now all we get are crappy lights at night ? They probably had there fill of our nonsense and are exploring elsewhere !!

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Basically, what I see here, is another thread saying "I dont believe it, so it CANNOT be real".

I do love open-mindedness.

edit on 8-7-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

I'm very open-minded. I was actually hoping for a discussion and maybe someone citing cases or explnations I hadn't looked into yet. But yes...I am always a skeptic first. And that...is quite a healthy thing, me thinks.

The problem though, is you didn't come off as a skeptic. You came off as a debunker. There IS a difference.

reply to post by elevatedone


Why is it against the rules to say that drugs may account for a lot of stories and experiences? If you know anything about psychiatry, it's common knowledge that people with illnesses such as schizophrenia can have extremely weird experiences and do unpredictable things when they go off their medications, or worse if undiagnosed. Many people in the "fringe" community suffer from paranoia and do not function properly in society.

Merely pointing out a vague category of explanation such as drugs should not be given a warning.

Originally posted by rick004
I'm a believer in ETs and I do believe they have visited our planet but the abductee thing is hard to swallow ! If they are that much more advanced than we are and have been monitoring us for eons , why wouldn't they abduct homeless people or people in mental institutions or old age homes ?

Right?

For the record, I do believe something is going on with regards to unidentified objects but, find most of the abductee claims rather unbelievable and lacking in proof. I do look forward looking into something one of the posters here mentioned on page 1 though!

It may be worth considering that, although we may be discussing super-advanced civilisations, they could be extremely anarchistic without any effective central authority

Even after one composes a robust argument advocating an optimistic view of super-advanced civilisations there always remains the potential for rogue factions within such civilisations

Personally I sleep in a pitch black room so if any aliens come round they better bring flashlights

and beer

I remember reading the following, If I can find it again I'll link to it.

A psychiatrist was intrigued by the number of people who claimed abductions so she set up an experiment.
She sent 20 abductees to another psychiatrist for a simple evaluation on their mental health. She did not tell the other psychiatrist about their claims of abduction.
Her reasoning was that if there was a mental reason for making these claims then it should show up in other ways.

All the abductees received perfect mental health reports, but when pushed the Psychiatrist who did the testing said some of them seemed a little above average intelligence, but not enough to include in the report. So basicaly, there was nothing wrong with them.

A good read
Rima Laibow's in-depth paper on Abductees & her methodologies

reply to post by VoidHawk


And those are just the ones that were brave enough to put their neck on the chopping blocks. Other than this forum, and a few similar, there are very few people I have talked about my experiences with. It takes balls to talk about these kinds of things to family and friends, it takes balls of steel to take it to the public arena.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

And those are just the ones that were brave enough to put their neck on the chopping blocks. Other than this forum, and a few similar, there are very few people I have talked about my experiences with. It takes balls to talk about these kinds of things to family and friends, it takes balls of steel to take it to the public arena.

Agreed.

reply to post by Unidentified_Objective

If you are a bug-eyed sentient being from another planet (Or of extra dimensional origins) why abduct individuals of a species that you genetically engineered or had a hand in manipulating or creating....if you are a species whose technological advancements are such that you can grow your own humans for testing, without having to travel to earth? Or if you didn't have a hand in creating or manipulating its evolution, why not take genetic samples or DNA and then grow the specimens in a lab? Ethics? You crossed that line when you abducted people so obviously, ethics are not an issue for you.

this seems like flawed logic to me, does anyone else agree?