Is Lucifer our Friend?

reply to post by phroziac


Duality is an illusion brother.

Originally posted by robhines

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
To you realize that was satan's lie to Eve in the garden? "Ye can be gods"

Sorry, I don't think it was a lie.

Neither did she...

What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to come out different?

reply to post by robhines


Absolutely. Lucifer(or whatever one calls that boogeyman under the bed) has been a scapegoat that has been used for thousands of years. Everything bad that has happened since then has been blamed on this being according to most religions on Earth. In fact, the reverse is true.

This being tried to lead humans into the light.....tried to lead humans to a peaceful existence. He failed. Why? The few that love to control the many were successful. They defeated him and his followers and made sure that future generations would view this being in an unholy light.

A good place to start research into this subject is the Brotherhood of the Snake. It began as an order that was devoted the freeing humans from spiritual enslavement. It was taken over by the victors and has been perverted into the head of the body of what you call the NWO.

The NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, ETC. are offspring's of this perverted brotherhood and they would like nothing more than people to believe that what a person considers Lucifer is evil incarnate. When one puts rational thought into the matter......What better way is there to discredit your nemesis by portraying him as the most offensive evil ever imagined?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by robhines

 

The Nag Hammadi fellows would be the Christian Gnostic version, and like I mentioned earlier there are 31 flavors!

Haha, thanks, might have to research some of the other flavours too then. I really like some of those texts though, think they're onto something in several areas.

reply to post by robhines


What makes you think Lucifer is not the good-guy in the Bible?

On one hand, you have a envious, brutal, jealous deity who likes to punish people for questioning him. This deity then banishes humans forever from his perfect home because they were modest, and proceeds to slaughter the entire world because they were immoral by his standards. Then you have this deity's son, who comes to uphold the laws of his father, and encourages people to segregate between those who accept him, and those who do not. All of which leads to an institution that burns people alive for being "witches," excommunicates others for not believing enough, and supports slavery, racism, and bigotry.

On the other hand you have the Angel of Light, and wisdom, who comes to teach men to think for themselves, to be proud of their achievements and accomplishments, and to offer the kingdom of the Earth to these same people. This figure kills no more than 12 individuals, ever. He also encourages people not to fall for garbage, or to trust in obviously-faulty things (like praying to cure sickness, instead of seeing a doctor). At the end of the day, this being doesn't ask for blind obedience, or senseless acts of racism, violence, and bigotry. He just asks that you be independent, self-sustaining, intelligent individuals who don't fall for garbage.

Which is the "good" God, and which the "bad" Devil again?

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by robhines

Well its a fallen world and the free will of the fallen is slavery.........Anything is possible.For many the Angels come as Angels and the next they are demons,the fact of this life is we are surrounded by the masters of deception.And mislead us they do.

Originally posted by My_Reality
A good place to start research into this subject is the Brotherhood of the Snake. It began as an order that was devoted the freeing humans from spiritual enslavement. It was taken over by the victors and has been perverted into the head of the body of what you call the NWO.

The NWO, Illuminati, Freemasons, ETC. are offspring's of this perverted brotherhood and they would like nothing more than people to believe that what a person considers Lucifer is evil incarnate. When one puts rational thought into the matter......What better way is there to discredit your nemesis by portraying him as the most offensive evil ever imagined?

Thanks, that's interesting. Didn't realise there was an order like that, that'd been changed from what it originally was. Will research that too.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Hey again! And yeah, agreed with a lot of that. That's another reason why I think the Gnostics were possibly onto something in a big way.

Originally posted by southbeach
the fact of this life is we are surrounded by the masters of deception.And mislead us they do.

Agreed.

Just remembered I skipped a few pages when first catching up here too, time to check on them.

reply to post by killbot2012


what do you mean duality is an illusion? you dont think duality exists?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by killbot2012

 

what do you mean duality is an illusion? you dont think duality exists?

Nope, the illusion of duality is a well known eastern concept that runs through Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and others.

This might help : Nondualism - Wikipedia

Extract from that page :

Loy (1988: p. 3) contrasts his view of the historicity of nonduality in some of its evocations in the experience of the peoples of The East and The West as follows:

"...[the seed of nonduality] however often sown, has never found fertile soil [in the West], because it has been too antithetical to those other vigorous sprouts that have grown into modern science and technology. In the Eastern tradition...we encounter a different situation. There the seeds of seer-seen nonduality not only sprouted but matured into a variety (some might say a jungle) of impressive philosophical species. By no means do all these [Eastern] systems assert the nonduality of subject and object, but it is significant that three which do – Buddhism, Vedanta and Taoism – have probably been the most influential."

reply to post by CthulhuMythos


That makes him the one having the most "fun" out of the whole ordeal.

Just thinking,you know?

reply to post by robhines


You should have taken a more phylosophical approach. Lucifer is the bringer of light, and what does the bringer of light, mean? It means the one, who brings light to darkness ... and what does that mean? It means, the one who brings understanding, where none exists.

But you also have to understand, that God just is ... the origin. But Jesus and Lucifer serve a purpose, a function. And their function has two sides ... one side, tells you to serve and pay your taxes. don't fight, and always be a good boy. It's "obey your master", and you're master will provide you with food on your table ... while the other side is telling you, be enlightened, educate yourself ... you won't get any rewards for it, and you'll probably end up living a life of poverty for it.

Now, you decide which side is which ....

Take the current Unied States of American, and it's war across the world as an example. This nazi regime, these fascist have declared every freedom loving person, to be their enemy. Every man, who believes in their independence ... is their potential enemy. It means, that in their minds, you have to be faithful ... and in their mind, faithful means no questions asked, no seeking of enlightenment ... you bow and obey, period. The educated approach, the enlightened approach, is to study, and learn ... and understand, and come to the conclusion that acts of war, are not the acts of valor. So anyone intelligent will oppose them, and only the idiot with no mind of his own ... will support them. (Star Trooper: The enemy are bugs, that need to be crushed ... serve, and become citizen).

Thus you have the two sides ... and any man of faith, will hate the bringer of light. He will hate the educated, and the intelligent ... those who bring knowledge and understanding. Because they will show that faith is being blind, is to live in darkness ... and they hate you for that.

This is why, during two thousand years of "faith" ... the entire world lived in darkness, and the dark ages.

Do you remember "The MATRIX" ? The traitor, who said "ignorance is bliss". Well, the entire movie is about "becoming enlightened". The entire world, is living in darkness ... and taking the world, on faith ... and the ones living underground, offer you a pill to wake up to reality ...and there are two realities. The world of bliss, and the world of hardness, suffering and awareness ... or the world of the dead, the sleepwalkers ... who live on faith.

Why is it the world of the dead? Because without "counscousness" and without "enlightenment", and without "awareness". You are nothing but an animal ... a walking piece of flesh.

reply to post by bjarneorn


Thanks, there's some good points in that post. And yeah, I first saw the Matrix 13 years ago when it came out, and I still remember leaving the cinema more inspired and changed than I ever have been after watching a film. It got me kind of obsessed with the nature of reality and the mind, and I've been researching most of the time since then. I was searching around a bit before seeing that film, but that really got me into it.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by robhines

 

What makes you think Lucifer is not the good-guy in the Bible?

On one hand, you have a envious, brutal, jealous deity who likes to punish people for questioning him. This deity then banishes humans forever from his perfect home because they were modest, and proceeds to slaughter the entire world because they were immoral by his standards. Then you have this deity's son, who comes to uphold the laws of his father, and encourages people to segregate between those who accept him, and those who do not. All of which leads to an institution that burns people alive for being "witches," excommunicates others for not believing enough, and supports slavery, racism, and bigotry.

On the other hand you have the Angel of Light, and wisdom, who comes to teach men to think for themselves, to be proud of their achievements and accomplishments, and to offer the kingdom of the Earth to these same people. This figure kills no more than 12 individuals, ever. He also encourages people not to fall for garbage, or to trust in obviously-faulty things (like praying to cure sickness, instead of seeing a doctor). At the end of the day, this being doesn't ask for blind obedience, or senseless acts of racism, violence, and bigotry. He just asks that you be independent, self-sustaining, intelligent individuals who don't fall for garbage.

Which is the "good" God, and which the "bad" Devil again?

~ Wandering Scribe

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, demonstrates the consequences and outcome of man choosing man and false 'gods' from the first page to last page. As you next drive by our overflowing prisons, the local abortion clinics killing 4,000 of our babies each day, the methadone clinics, the street corner gangs, the neighbourhoods filled with houses that have bars on every window and three locks on each door, the no go zones in each of our cities, the parents taking their kids to school to prevent abductions, the local prostitutes soliciting men so desperate for a sexual fix that they are willing to pick up a drug addicted and disease riddle woman, the growing number of pedophiles, the homosexual community gaining rights to teach your children that their sexual perversion is normal, the unidentified pedophiles lurking for the chance to get at your child, the endless teenagers contemplating suicide, the elderly plowed into old age homes because their children abandon them to others, the local drug dealers waiting to hook your kid on crack and every drug known to man.....

Drive by it all and keep refusing to acknowledge that it isn't a consequence of two things; 1) the rejection of the God of Our Forefathers and His laws, and the relabelling of evil as good. Sin and it's consequences are a never ending spiral into destruction. Why? Because man then takes the mark of the beast - his thoughts and resulting actions are conformed to the world. What the world of man then decides to deem something as 'good', it becomes their good - man compares himself against other men, and as more and more wicked and depraved behaviours become relabelled as 'good', man descends into continually doing evil in the sight of their creator. A little snowball grows and grows. Jesus stated "I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 1but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me."

It's tragic that you prefer to think that the devil killed only a handful, when the spirit of disobedience has resulted in every atrocity on this planet. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob IS love. His commands bless us and our society. Man's commands, however, lead to destruction. It is man that rebels against his own creator, it is man that has an evil heart, and it is man in darkness that will take this age to an end. It's all written. Open your eyes to the world around you - the consequences that we see in our society stem from the beast's definition of love - acceptance and tolerance. Tolerate drugs in our society, we rot our children. Tolerate abhorrent behaviour, our kids accept it as normal. Tolerate life in the womb as non-life, babies are butchered. Love wickedness, reap its consequences. Love self, kick others to the curb. Love sex, disease inflicts misery. Love money, leads to stepping on others. Tolerate stealing, lose your possessions.

See, 'lucifer' sought to put his throne above the Creator. Look today, and see that man is doing the same. Perhaps you'll come to see that your 'lucifer' speaks to your lusts which only have death as its consequences, and that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob holds out life and good to those that are called. Your 'angel of light' is as Jesus stated - a liar and murderer from the beginning.

Originally posted by bjarneorn
reply to post by robhines

 

You should have taken a more phylosophical approach. Lucifer is the bringer of light, and what does the bringer of light, mean? It means the one, who brings light to darkness ... and what does that mean? It means, the one who brings understanding, where none exists.

But you also have to understand, that God just is ... the origin. But Jesus and Lucifer serve a purpose, a function. And their function has two sides ... one side, tells you to serve and pay your taxes. don't fight, and always be a good boy. It's "obey your master", and you're master will provide you with food on your table ... while the other side is telling you, be enlightened, educate yourself ... you won't get any rewards for it, and you'll probably end up living a life of poverty for it.

Now, you decide which side is which ....

Take the current Unied States of American, and it's war across the world as an example. This nazi regime, these fascist have declared every freedom loving person, to be their enemy. Every man, who believes in their independence ... is their potential enemy. It means, that in their minds, you have to be faithful ... and in their mind, faithful means no questions asked, no seeking of enlightenment ... you bow and obey, period. The educated approach, the enlightened approach, is to study, and learn ... and understand, and come to the conclusion that acts of war, are not the acts of valor. So anyone intelligent will oppose them, and only the idiot with no mind of his own ... will support them. (Star Trooper: The enemy are bugs, that need to be crushed ... serve, and become citizen).

Thus you have the two sides ... and any man of faith, will hate the bringer of light. He will hate the educated, and the intelligent ... those who bring knowledge and understanding. Because they will show that faith is being blind, is to live in darkness ... and they hate you for that.

This is why, during two thousand years of "faith" ... the entire world lived in darkness, and the dark ages.

Do you remember "The MATRIX" ? The traitor, who said "ignorance is bliss". Well, the entire movie is about "becoming enlightened". The entire world, is living in darkness ... and taking the world, on faith ... and the ones living underground, offer you a pill to wake up to reality ...and there are two realities. The world of bliss, and the world of hardness, suffering and awareness ... or the world of the dead, the sleepwalkers ... who live on faith.

Why is it the world of the dead? Because without "counscousness" and without "enlightenment", and without "awareness". You are nothing but an animal ... a walking piece of flesh.

edit on 9/7/2012 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

And you have been sold to 'lucifer' hook, line and sinker without realising that he did it through the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride. You fully subscribe to the "we can become god" fallacy. The same mantra leading this world into destruction. How does it do that? It wants to create life so it genetically alters all of God's creation because it cannot create life as God, so all of us get to suffer eating altered food, altered animals and watch horrifying experiments being pushed in the name of 'medical advancement'. When you think that you ARE god, you take it upon yourself to decide when babies get to be born and when and who gets to die. When you think that you ARE god, you get to decide to relabel previous evil behaviours as good, thus condemning generations to venereal diseases, abortions, and a life led by lust. When you think that you ARE god, you get to decide who to reward and who to punish. This list is endless, but I know that you cannot see the consequences of choosing man over god. You are fully under the sway of the beast, your mind is fully in line with it. Your 'bringer of light' is your god because he panders to every single one of your lusts, thus you are led by them, and you cannot see that you have chosen evil which leads to death instead of life and good. The real Light is rejected for the false light, and you will happily accept the "SON OF PERDITION" because you have rejected the "SON OF GOD". The 'bringer of light' has blinded you to God, and has blinded you to fight FOR the very things that will bring only misery and death. Perhaps someday you will understand that Jesus still heals the blind to SEE, still heals the deaf to HEAR, and still heals the lame to walk in a straight path of UNDERSTANDING. Those gifts are priceless, and then you'll understand that the light which you once loved was nothing but a liar and deceiver - that it pandered to your lusts putting you on the throne above the God Almighty. And as 'lucifer', all will be struck down.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


What happens to the Buddhists, Taoists and the Hindu's then? In your own view, what do you think will happen to them? (I'm not going to believe you, just wondering what you think.)

When I was a teenager I had a dream, I was in a large hall that had tables laden with food. All around the hall were
other teenagers and there were also many elderly bearded men in robes.
We were told that all religions have some basis of truth, but all had been manipulated and distorted by mankind for there own reasons.
We were also told that the closest religion to the truth was buddhism and the laws of cause and effect.
I was never religious and only in my later years have I developed an interest in spirituality.
I had that dream about 30 years ago and It is still pretty clear in my mind.
We are energy beings who give off negative and positive energy and I believe we are here to experience and learn all the joys and hardship of life.
Its not what you achieve that is important but the journey itself.

Originally posted by Szarekh
reply to post by CthulhuMythos

 

That makes him the one having the most "fun" out of the whole ordeal.

Just thinking,you know?

Yup, a bit like the old gods of Olympus in the original Clash of the Titans where they are playing chess with the lives of real people for a bit of one-upmanship and entertainment between themselves, hmmmmmmmmmm now who does that remind me of? Oh yeah, our elite and governments perhaps?

Originally posted by kudegras
When I was a teenager I had a dream, I was in a large hall that had tables laden with food. All around the hall were
other teenagers and there were also many elderly bearded men in robes.
We were told that all religions have some basis of truth, but all had been manipulated and distorted by mankind for there own reasons.
We were also told that the closest religion to the truth was buddhism and the laws of cause and effect.

Wow, that's brilliant.

Thanks for sharing!

reply to post by robhines


hmm