What possible use is the Higgs Boson??? And who cares?? Not me.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
Michael Faraday was once asked by a government official who thought his discovery was only important in the realm of theoretical science, "what is the use of this electricity?" in which Faraday replied "What is the use of a new-born baby?".

Not quite, even better.

William Gladstone, Chancellor of the Exchequer (finance minister, and later prime minister) asked Faraday about the practical value of electricity. Faraday answered, "One day sir, you may tax it."

well with further study we could assemble matter how we want. Like The "replicator" in star trek...ya know the machine they tell what food they want and it assembles matter into the food they asked for.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I'm not seeing the parallels. Freynman's quote is very old, our understanding of QM has expanded vastly since then.

In particle physics phenomenology, yes. In basic QM, not at all. The basic laws of how to describe nature with quantum fields and the difficulty of practical interpretation is the same now as it was in 1955.

Originally posted by dxdydzAre you serious? I'm going to address quantum physics in this response.
Read here at how quantum physics has been useful.
www.scientificamerican.com...

You should really google before you post.

The computer you are using to communicate this would not be possible without it.

edit on 7-7-2012 by dxdydz because: (no reason given)

But how long has the transistor been around in comparison to qunatum mechanics? And how plentiful are these applications compared to the almost endless applications of classical mechanics? Interesting how you decided to nitpick that example to discredit my whole post, but quantum mechanics may have not been the best example.

What about special or generael theory of relativity? Other than GPS, what has it been at all useful for? It has no practical applications and probably never will. IMO, the same applies for Higgs Boson. If it ever does happen to have any application, it will be in the very distant future.

Originally posted by AQuestion

In the end, the Higgs Boson is supposed to be a force, a particle that "creates" the impossible from the possible. It gives off more than it has, it is a creator or a God. It is the idea that there is something greater than the physical that creates the physical while still being physical.

This is a complete load of BS. Let's actually talk about physics.

In quantum field theory you can have fields (some "stuff", described by sets of numbers at every location in spacetime, like electric & magnetic fields). Your model of physical interactions asserts "These are the fields of Nature (show math for the fields) and these are the fundamental interactions." Then you go from that to compute the observed consequences of these assumptions (which is very hard and takes tons of work) and compare that to the experimental evidence.

As it turns out, if you have a "field" then in quantum field theory you also have particles, one goes along with the other---always. It's a consequence of doing quantum mechanics on fields. Fields on their own, in classical physics are governed by partial differential equations, but when you add in quantum properties the structure gets much more complicated.

How particle physics has worked since 1940's. A) propose some structure for the real world, aka "write down the Lagrangian". This is a 100% assertion, not logic. B) work out the consequences using the equations of quantum mechanics, which apply to all particle theories.

Back to Higgs. The starting point is the Higgs field. Assertion is that there is a Higgs field throughout the universe just like there is an electric and magnetic field.

Let's compare to electromagnetism. At least classically there is exaclty one value of the electric & magnetic field at any given point of space, definition of a field. Particles which have charge interact with this background field, say accelerating and turning due to electromagnetic fields.

Well, the physics of the Higgs mechanism asserts that when other particles move, they interact with the Higgs field and get slowed down, in rough analogy to how charged particles get torque from moving through a magnetic field. Problem is, that unlike electromagnetic fields, we don't have any easily experimentally accessible way of creating them, i.e. there is no Higgs-field equivalent of magnet. Since humans can't change it, that makes it much much more difficult to prove experimentally that it is a correct theory.

What is the Higgs boson, then? Why is it important? Seeing it is the only clearly direct way to prove that the Higgs field is a true description of Nature. What the "photon" is to electromagnetism, the Higgs boson is to the Higgs field. In 19th century E&M you can do all sorts of things with quasi-static (slowly varying) fields. The equivalent of Higgs is the effect which makes particles resist acceleration, i.e. have mass. Magnetic fields make charged particles curve when they move. Higgs field makes massive particles push back when you try to accelerate them. In ordinary circumstances, the field-like nature, and not the particle nature dominates.

Quantum field theory implies that when you have a field, there is always an 'excitation' of the field, a particle. The Higgs boson is the elementary quantum excitation of the Higgs field, and now that they saw it, they now know that the Higgs field really is there.

Why was it so much easier to see electromagnetism? Because photons have zero rest mass, in effect you can make them with as much or little energy as you want, meaning they were accessible to easy human invsetigation. Higgs bosons have a very high rest mass meaning that it is very very difficult to make them, and when you have that much energy you make bajillions of other particles which mask the signal from the Higgs boson.

Because it has a rest mass equivalent to a Barium atom and not zero, it means that there will not be a Haser (Higgs version of a laser). Bummer.

If the rest mass of Higgs were a few million times lower, then possibly there could have been technological implications---shoot Higgs bosons (modifying the field) and thus change inertia of particles.

The result however might have been a horrific Romulan Disruptor weapon or something. The orbits/energy states of atoms depend on the precise mass ratio of electrons to nuclei. If you were to change this, every chemical bond would instantly fall apart and turn any object into a chaotic plasma of elementary particles. Very very very hazardous to your health.

reply to post by Diablos


I honestly can't respond anymore after your post. It's not worth it. I hope someday you can reason. Perhaps some humans can reason and some not. Then I won't hold it against you. It's just nature.
I will address general relativy tomorrow if you I must.

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by dxdydzAre you serious? I'm going to address quantum physics in this response.
Read here at how quantum physics has been useful.
www.scientificamerican.com...

You should really google before you post.

The computer you are using to communicate this would not be possible without it.

edit on 7-7-2012 by dxdydz because: (no reason given)

But how long has the transistor been around in comparison to qunatum mechanics? And how plentiful are these applications compared to the almost endless applications of classical mechanics? Interesting how you decided to nitpick that example to discredit my whole post, but quantum mechanics may have not been the best example.

Tons of important infrared spectroscopy technology used everywhere in chemistry requires quantum mechanics to understand and make use of. And of course lasers and the erbium doped fiber-optic amplifiers which are presently transmitting the internet signals that bring you this message.

And then there's that wee bit of stuff called nuclear fission which might have had a bit of a geopolitical impact at one time or another.

So far the practical importance of General Relativity has been very small, though it is critical to understanding large-scale astrophysical observations.

In technological importance

Quantum mechanics > special relativity >>> general relativity.

Well there are ideas floating around that you will be meeting yourself from another dimension, and are you ready to face yourself?

Originally posted by dxdydzI honestly can't respond anymore after your post. It's not worth it. I hope someday you can reason. Perhaps some humans can reason and some not. Then I won't hold it against you. It's just nature.
I will address general relativy tomorrow if you I must.

edit on 7-7-2012 by dxdydz because: (no reason given)

Prime example right here of the type of characters I mentioned in my first post, OP. They don't their points across by using facts or evidence (tabloid pieces that link the theory of some applications obscurely to physical principle hardly counts as "evidence"), but instead use shaming tactics and snide remarks to get their points across. Also, notice how they decide to nitpick certain parts of a post in an attempt to discredit the entire post. Funny how he didn't respond to the general gist of my post, but instead to an analogy.

The fact still remains: Discovery of the Higgs Boson will not cause another industrial revolution, nor will it have any practical applications in the near future.

reply to post by mbkennel


Dear mbkennel,

Why was it so much easier to see electromagnetism? Because photons have zero rest mass, in effect you can make them with as much or little energy as you want, meaning they were accessible to easy human invsetigation. Higgs bosons have a very high rest mass meaning that it is very very difficult to make them, and when you have that much energy you make bajillions of other particles which mask the signal from the Higgs boson.

You are self aware, prove that absolute zero exists, prove you don't exist. Absolute zero is a fallacy. Zero mass means Einstein and physicists attempt to prove anti-matter, something that negates, a minus matter is wrong. Lets be honest, quantum physics says that the rules of physics are wrong. Newton proves correct, he demonstrated his truth and quantum physics says he is wrong. Yet, apples fall to the ground. Quantum rules do not work on an atomic level. Put the math into words, explain the nonsense that is quantum physics. How many alternate universes do you believe in? 2, 11, 21 or unlimited?

To day the Higgs Boson Particle has no real world application, but so did the electron when in was first discovered in 1859. But today all modern electronics are based around how electrons move. It may take us time to figure out a use for Higgs Boson Particles but who can tell what the future holds.

Originally posted by mbkennel
Tons of important infrared spectroscopy technology used everywhere in chemistry requires quantum mechanics to understand and make use of. And of course lasers and the erbium doped fiber-optic amplifiers which are presently transmitting the internet signals that bring you this message.

And then there's that wee bit of stuff called nuclear fission which might have had a bit of a geopolitical impact at one time or another.

So far the practical importance of General Relativity has been very small, though it is critical to understanding large-scale astrophysical observations.

In technological importance

Quantum mechanics > special relativity >>> general relativity.

Again, this why I retracted my analogy to quantum mechanics and instead to special and general relativity.

Relativity has been around for nearly a century, and yet I can't think of any industrial applications other than the GPS system and that is to account for the time dilation rather than being an integral part in designing the device.

Other than that, how has an understanding of theory of relativity affect the lives of the general public? We're not talking about other scientists here. Of course, the Higgs Boson will be have significant implications to other scientists working within particle physics, but it won't have any affect on the general public in terms of industrial applications, well not in the near future at least.

Here's some hypothetical implications that I can think of:

Since the Higgs Boson gives all other particles mass, identifying it now offers the possibility of manipulating it. If you can manipulate the thing that gives mass to other particles, you can manipulate all other particles.

1) make matter move at the speed of light
2) teleport matter
3) possibly observe/access different realities

Who knows, maybe we'll discover a nexus where all realities collide.

Originally posted by mbkennel
The basic laws of how to describe nature with quantum fields and the difficulty of practical interpretation is the same now as it was in 1955.

That's true. However, I'm sure you fail to realize that quantum mechanics and its "interpretations" were fully understood by the 1950s. Indeed, research in quantum mechanics pretty much stopped around the 1930s, as it was more or less completely understood by then. (Aside from crackpot research, of course, which continues to this day. But that goes without saying.)

The people who don't understand quantum mechanics today are simply the people who don't understand things like Bayes' theorem, the Birthday Paradox, or the Monty Hall Paradox. (For those who bother to actually learn what these things are: recall that there is nothing needed to be random in any way in the Birthday or Monty Hall paradoxes, the weirdness is all due to the conditional-ness of the measurements. Quantum mechanics turns out to be inherently random, and that's fine, but it has absolutely nothing at all to do with its "weirdness." And this has certainly been understood since the late '30s or early '40s by any remotely competent physicist.)

Originally posted by OrphenFire
Since the Higgs Boson gives all other particles mass, identifying it now offers the possibility of manipulating it.

Again, for the 100th time, no, it doesn't. In no way does it do that, and in no way does this statement make any sense of any kind in any way. Please see my previous 100 responses on this in this and the dozen other Higgs threads.

I still find it amusing that you already have all that you need and yet you all continue to look in the wrong place.

This can only provide questions that you will never answer.

There a certain conditions perfect for the human species to thrive in,
Why do you not seek to perfect what you can already rudimentarily understand,
Instead of trying to ascertain what is vastly outside of your reach?

If you lose your way, You may never turn back.

Beyond now, is a universe that you are NOT destined for.

Humans are not looking in the wrong place. It's not the humans forcing the false science and CERN collider upon the world but the small would be elite annanuki. This branch or splinter of the annanuki was left in the dark and seem to be fed distortions alot, but I believe they are repeating Atlantis crimes. And also, attempting to access what they have no right to exploit. That in the past was a war. So are they trying to bring something in?

Again, I stress, not human, a very ruthless species running things here.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Humans are not looking in the wrong place. It's not the humans forcing the false science and CERN collider upon the world but the small would be elite annanuki. This branch or splinter of the annanuki was left in the dark and seem to be fed distortions alot, but I believe they are repeating Atlantis crimes. And also, attempting to access what they have no right to exploit. That in the past was a war. So are they trying to bring something in?

Again, I stress, not human, a very ruthless species running things here.

Yep, you caught me, I'm really an alien. Foiled again! If it weren't for you kids! And your dog, too!

reply to post by Moduli


Not quite sure what you're referring to.

Humans only have to look in the mirror to see an ET.

This is one branch of Lyra, the annanuki. And they made alot of splinters, including hybrids with other species like reptlian. They also did the portal openings and a war with NAGA's. They abused alot of science and created macho type unemotional warrior slavers. They took the human dna from 12 to 2 strands. They claim they're our creators. NOT! I have memories from Lyra myself, then through pleaides, and have some sense of recognition, and of the opposite energies of this group.

There is a connection in my past far before Sumar, to the Lemuria and the Equality that they destroyed.

Now their transhuman, animal manipulations, and this CERN and HIggs Boson, to me is all about portals, they seem determined to go the way of their ancestors.

I had to strike out the word 'negative" as we are never to judge anyone, and I'm sorry for that, many made errors in judgement, and many lost their way, we need to pray and intercede, encourage their return, to love and home.

Originally posted by Diablos


Again, this why I retracted my analogy to quantum mechanics and instead to special and general relativity.

Relativity has been around for nearly a century, and yet I can't think of any industrial applications other than the GPS system and that is to account for the time dilation rather than being an integral part in designing the device.

Other than that, how has an understanding of theory of relativity affect the lives of the general public? We're not talking about other scientists here. Of course, the Higgs Boson will be have significant implications to other scientists working within particle physics, but it won't have any affect on the general public in terms of industrial applications, well not in the near future at least.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Diablos because: (no reason given)

Agree 100%, take away QM and yes the applications are significantly less---and minimal for general relativity. Because of the very high rest mass of the Higgs boson (setting the energy scale for interactions) there won't be any commercial applications unless we discover some pretty exotic new physics about how to manipulate the background Higgs field at much lower energies than that necessary to create the first excitation (1 Higgs boson). How to do that has not been discovered and isn't part of the standard model.

We'd have more luck manipulating Dark Matter (stable lightest supersymmetric particle perhaps) but even that would be pretty difficult, like using neutrinos (which interact only with weak force and gravity).