Enlightenment

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by The X

 

Would you be able to tell if someone who said they were, was or was not Enlightened?.
How would you deduce if they were being truthful?, Just because a person says they are, does not mean they are not.

I praised the OP for his humility. Humility is an important part of enlightenment, don't you agree?

I absolutely agree, The last person on earth it is said, will be a Buddhist, in his humility and practice, he will help the last person leave a world of suffering, leaving himself to be the last to suffer, before leaving himself.

The true buddha knows that there are no 'other people' so he by realizing the truth has set all others free of suffering. He knows the only suffering there is is his own and when he searches for himself he finds himself absent.

Who is to say the last "Person on earth" will be buddha re-incarnated?.
He said himself it will be at least 50,000 years before he re-incarnates here.
It will be a long long time before anyone else reaches true buddhahood.
The true buddha may indeed find himself absent in the suffering of humanity, but, for those of us who have yet to reach "True" Enlightenment, We will endeavour to help those that are suffering, to help them find the way to alleviate their own suffering, and to try and stop others from inflicting suffering on those around them.

(Ps, i Love all you guys!)
This is also an interesting thing to try, stand at a window looking out or go outside, feel a warmth in your heart for what you see, i swear, that the moment your heart lifts and you feel the warmth of love radiate through you, its like the world loves you back, it all seems to brighten, become happier.
such a beautiful feeling.

reply to post by The X


Buddha means enlightened one.
When the truth has been realized it is seen that it is all one so there are no separate people to suffer, there is suffering but no one is suffering.

reply to post by The X


"This is also an interesting thing to try, stand at a window looking out or go outside, feel a warmth in your heart for what you see, i swear, that the moment your heart lifts and you feel the warmth of love radiate through you, its like the world loves you back, it all seems to brighten, become happier.
such a beautiful feeling."

To be just here and now with what is present is enlightenment, it is the forgetting of the imagined world and the remembering of this always present moment. Presence.
To say return to the present moment is crazy because at no point can the present moment be absent, it has to be for this to be. The human believes in time so lives in imaginations, illusions, he is hypnotyzied by what is not real.
To be with what is appearing without naming anything is bliss.

youtu.be...

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by The X

 

Further to that, all things are true. Your truth is as true as mine. The only difference is perspective. Understanding this fundamentally is compassion. This comes with remembering, or "imagining" all the various scenarios that could bring a person to the place where they sit at their perspective. Respect, understanding, compassion, forbearance, faith, truth - all part of enlightenment. Every person or event you witness is evidence of perspective. They are perspectives of you. That oneness is obvious. There can be no going back to duality.

That nicely enjoinders positional awareness of the fractured reality, back into the whole, it has just struck me that when we all arrive at the same place, from the same set of directions, Oneness is Guaranteed, i am a great believer in the unification of consciousness into an aware and shared collective of consciousness, it already is on a subtle level.
It isn't really powerful or have enough presence yet to maintain itself in a higher state of mind, the state in which we mostly find ourselves, "Living".
As it becomes more aware of us being aware of it, it will grow in strength, become more present in our minds, this will be an interesting time of high strangeness for humanity when it begins to take root in the more accessible areas of our daily "Living" consciousness.
I laughed so hard at myself the other day when i came up with a new definition for "Brain" Living under a corptocracy;

"Oxygenated rental space". i lolled.

Id just like to add what i mean by this "As it becomes more aware of us being aware of it", is through polymorphic resonance, the fact that something becomes easier the more the task is completed by different people, otherwise known as The 100 monkey syndrome, the Mind/field resonance will build to a point in which humanity generally will find it easier and easier to access this state, or, allow this state to exist within them.
The state of consciousness that we all share, is elasticated, but at the same time, a clone of what every other person has, and is using, each of us strecthes our consciousness in different ways, though because it is shared, what one person experiences, we are all potentially capable of experiencing.
Through polymorphic resonance, an experience will be more easily shared, and in time, something so utterly strange as a "Accessible collective consciousness", will become the norm.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by The X

 

"This is also an interesting thing to try, stand at a window looking out or go outside, feel a warmth in your heart for what you see, i swear, that the moment your heart lifts and you feel the warmth of love radiate through you, its like the world loves you back, it all seems to brighten, become happier.
such a beautiful feeling."

To be just here and now with what is present is enlightenment, it is the forgetting of the imagined world and the remembering of this always present moment. Presence.

I have no trouble with that, in fact i view the universe as a massively homogenate living entity, through which aspects of myself/itself, "Me" don't move, but are transmuted into new positions.
A collectiv-ism, "ism'ing" into "new" builds of it's "old" self continually.
The impermanence thing is a great way to bring yourself to understand what has to be, has to be, and their is no sense in getting hung up on what has to happen.
Believe me when i say i have walked here the hard way, i do not in any way claim that i know everything, but, i have paid close attention to things most people will not even recognise as even "Existing".
I have an understanding of what has happened to me, and, that this is something i regard as special and worth more to me than any amount of money, I would have rather had the life i have now, with all it's difficulties and imperfections, than to have been born a billionaires child, and missed it all because i was too busy gratifying my physical senses.

reply to post by The X


I understand, i see it too. It took 'me' along time to understand what happened to 'me' and i totally agree it was and is special and is freely available.
It was only when i stumbled across 'non duality' / advaita vedanta that i found 'others' who had discovered it too.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by The X

 

I understand, i see it too. It took 'me' along time to understand what happened to 'me' and i totally agree it was and is special and is available to all.
It was only when i stumbled across 'non duality' / advaita vedanta that i found 'others' who had discovered it too.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I haven't studied much in the way of buddhism, in the sense of becoming a scholar on the subject, i researched those aspects that i have revealed, and needed answers too, and also some research into the flower of life, after i revealed it within, though i consider myself a buddhist at heart, more importantly, by nature.
Buddhism is the only sense i can see in a world that i know see like this.
Everything i speak of, is because i have felt it, still feel it, personal discoveries that required me to find some kind of answers, the truth IS in buddhist principles, that i do know, that is what i feel.
I keep getting the feeling i should go to Holy Island on a retreat sometime and seek real guidance.

reply to post by The X


I urge you to check out Advaita vedanta and non duality, here are a few links.
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
youtu.be...

And this one is 'What is non duality?'
youtu.be...

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That all depends on your definition of 'enlightenment'.

What is your definition of "enlightenment" if it does not include the humility that comes from the transcendence of ego?

But the trancandence of ego is only temporary?

If enlightenment consists of going to an internet forum and claiming one is enlightened, then there are many enlightened being here on ATS. I would wager, that in real life, a true enlightened person wouldn't even need a computer. I would also wager that if anyone knew anything about enlightenment, it would be the enlightened, and not the folks who make such claims on an internet forum.

OP, you have spoken more truth than anyone who's disagreed with you—simply because you haven't yet lied to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be seduced or you justify their actions.

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by DJW001

 

That all depends on your definition of 'enlightenment'.

It is a feeling and does not really have a definition, the understanding that you, the person next to you, the universe we stand in, are all one and the same thing, is the closest you can come to a definition of "Universal" enlightenment.
Spiritual enlightenment, a process of meditation and inner contemplation allowing you to discover the seeds of God planted within, and the formation and bursting of the flower of life (the 972 petaled lotus) into your metaphsyical spirit self.
The understanding of God consciousness is within all of us, and, with seeking can be manifested as a personal revelation of great intensity, leaving no doubt that their is a spiritual lifeforce to which we are literally bound.

From personal experience, those are my definitions of Universal, and, personal "Enlightenment", they are one and the same thing, as everything is, but, having the Universal sense of enlightenment, created the conditions through which i managed to open the "flower of life" the crown chakra, and saw that what i thought was the truth, actually, is the truth.
There is a God consciousness in all of us.

I could have written this but with other words. En-light-end. Being in the light. Felling the cap on the head and probably going to get the pinal gland working and the third eye on.

For me this do not mean for certain that you are wise or egoless. And some people are awoken roughly thru an overloaded fear amagydala reaction so meditation do not have to come before the moment. Sometimes god/higher self is forcing the awakening in spite of what the ego wants, since it is needed. What you get from enlightment is really up to the person experiancing it.

You can have ego and views and not listen to others if you do not want to. You can still be an asshole and build up dualities that makes sense to you, even if you understand that nonduality is what we are after in the end. I can not make me feel one with a persons opinions that have very dualistic views and from my point of view frankly do not get it and say that they do. I might be wrong with my ideas but have logicly thought out what I think.

Being enlightened do not mean you are always right or even very considerate of other peoples view. I for instance do not accept that people circumcise their kids. It is not their right to change the body of their child without their child having any say to it. If a grown person wants to do it then fine. But you do not destroy a girls/boys future sexual enjoyment for old cultural belifs.

Even Jesus had moments of lossing temper if we can belive the bible.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by The X

 

Further to that, all things are true. Your truth is as true as mine. The only difference is perspective. Understanding this fundamentally is compassion. This comes with remembering, or "imagining" all the various scenarios that could bring a person to the place where they sit at their perspective. Respect, understanding, compassion, forbearance, faith, truth - all part of enlightenment. Every person or event you witness is evidence of perspective. They are perspectives of you. That oneness is obvious. There can be no going back to duality.

I love you thinking here but do not agree. You might be able to have different opinions and the might be equally true but to say every thing is true is clearly untrue. There is one exakt one thruth of what is going on that in a single moment explains the state of everything. All other perspectives on that exakt thing will be a lie or assumption. And some lies are further from the thruth than others.

But you sometimes maybe should not tell people that they are wrong becuase of the reson that it might be you who are wrong or they might need to be wrong in this way to get to a place where they are even more right than you are.

So the best way to know the most of what is real thruth is to examine the other persons belifs and qourselfs and see where they lead you. But if the do not fit at all do reject them until you can make them fit or if they scream wrong in such and extreme that you can never get the ideas to fit.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You have defined your definition of 'enlightenment' as transending the ego. I then would agree, however this cannot be achieved by just being nice to people and things, first one has to realize that one is not separate. Humility comes after the realization, humility is not a prescription to achieve enlightenment. Humility is a symptom of enlightenment.

But most spiritual traditions agree that one must practice humility and compassion as part of the process.

How can we know that a person need to be egoless before his awakening? What if a person need to have a specific life where he is inside egoless but ouside not to be in the right spot needed? I am not sure you can judge what the person is by the ego/mind but what is beneth(spirit). I know many people think spirit do not change/evolve but I think all things change. Being static is an illusion that we want to belive because we have a hard time with everchanging things (at least I do).

I think there is a difference in spirit evolution between spirits. It do not mean there is a difference in worth just that some spritit understand more than others. Some people have a spiritvoice inside that they cannot turn off that can be both good and bad for the person. I even think you sometimes go back and sometimes goes forward in growth. There is no real hurry if you look at the biggest picture since we all get it in the end, but it can be a pain being in between as I am now.

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by ypperst
reply to post by BlueMule

 

The problem with atheist?

Hmm, I would rather think that religion is a problem.

If I ask you, what a good person is, can you tell me?

Do you think a good person, is someone who believe in god, meditate 3 times a day, and just going around in their own world doing nothing really?

Don't get me wrong, I do love meditation. But for me its merely a stress relief, not something I get to see other worlds with. (if you do, thats just because your brain stops getting so much air, because of slow breathing)

ok, ill help you here, your meditation is not just about slow breathing, it is about breathing properly.
When we are babies we breathe correctly, as we get older our breathing becomes disordered.
As babies we breathe by the action of the diaphragm, it is automatic, you push your stomach out, you breathe in, you relax and you automatically pull your stomach in, and you breathe out.
As we get older we move our breathing to our chest and forget the natural way to breathe.
We heave our chests and rib cage, and this fills out lungs, this takes more effort.

the idea of the breathing with meditation is to create a feeling, something that can be felt in the stomach.
Imagine a water wheel, The water pours onto it and it spins.
Now imagine a wheel in your stomach, concentrate on your breathing, your natural no effort breathing, push your belly out, and feel the air that rushes in working on the wheel making it spin.
Breathe in a steady and controlled manner, when you breathe out, continue to feel the wheel "freewheeling" until you breathe in again and you make it spin again.

Your chakras are spinning wheels inside your body, it is easiest to find the chakra in your belly first using this method, by becoming accustomed to "Feeling" something spinning in your stomach, you are conditioning your mind to feel the spinning of your chakra.

Also maintain a happy sense of self discovery about the process, YOU WAN'T to know, approach it with this frame of mind, relax and let it happen.
Visualise the wheel, and above all look for the sense of it spinning within you, feel it.

If anyone tries this and finds that it is working (It will work if you try), u2u me and ill tell you the rest.

edit on 7-7-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-7-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-7-2012 by The X because: (no reason given)

I can never get the visual thing to work on me and the chakra in the stomach is probably the one I feel the least . My brain/mind dont seem to be wired that way. If they have visualisation problems like me then they can always try medative sounds on youtube or singing/chanting.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
If enlightenment consists of going to an internet forum and claiming one is enlightened, then there are many enlightened being here on ATS. I would wager, that in real life, a true enlightened person wouldn't even need a computer. I would also wager that if anyone knew anything about enlightenment, it would be the enlightened, and not the folks who make such claims on an internet forum.

OP, you have spoken more truth than anyone who's disagreed with you—simply because you haven't yet lied to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be seduced or you justify their actions.

We all have our own paths we need to walk and this place is a perfect place to talk to people who seem to be a bit ahead of the others in evolution/understanding. I wish I lived in a place where all the people around me knew more than me. That would have been easier to understand things and feel more harmonious with the people around me.

Your post is pushing the op towards not seeking enlightment and opening chakras and trying to understand nonduality that is both in buddism/hinduism/native american religon and Jesus teaching. Your post seem to be to the op to not belive anything or seek any more knowledge and remain unchanged. If one of us knows what we are talking about then not seeking further is ignorant. If none of ous is not what we say then he will gain knowledge in philosophy and relax in meditiation so what is the problem of following our advice. You are preaching divide and conqurer mentality and that leeds to duality.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


That is your truth right now. That's the extent of your experience and that, as a result, is your perspective. However, I never said anything about telling others anything. I didn't say that you should make them aware of the "error of their ways". What I said is that that is your perspective. It would only be arrogant of you to go around pointing out "faults" in others. How do you know it is not your own unless you have examined the situation (in meditation when first starting out, for example) with great compassion? You could be the one with the "wrong" view.

The point is to observe more than to affect. Participate but with as little interference as possible. Allow others to pursue their truth and their dreams while you do the same for yourself.

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
OP, you have spoken more truth than anyone who's disagreed with you—simply because you haven't yet lied to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be seduced or you justify their actions.

Agreed. Enlightenment is only relevant to the ego, which as long as one is breathing still exists inherently.

This idea brings up some interesting implications. One is that it is only the ego, or individual perception, that can become "enlightened." We simply realize what was there all along. Meaning, that there was never a point at which one was not enlightened, rendering the term "meaningless" to anything other than the ego. "When no-thing is special, every-thing can be." Another is that many who claim such a term also claim to have destroyed the ego, which is the only thing that can become "enlightened." It seems it indicates how we truly can deceive ourselves. Especially when one starts to claim that others are not experiencing "it."

It could just be that every-one is enlightened, but our perspectives on what this is differs. We are all experiencing the same thing through different eyes (part of the ego).

Perhaps it is no-thing more than accepting the process. It is nothing special.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
If enlightenment consists of going to an internet forum and claiming one is enlightened, then there are many enlightened being here on ATS. I would wager, that in real life, a true enlightened person wouldn't even need a computer. I would also wager that if anyone knew anything about enlightenment, it would be the enlightened, and not the folks who make such claims on an internet forum.

OP, you have spoken more truth than anyone who's disagreed with you—simply because you haven't yet lied to yourself. Don't allow yourself to be seduced or you justify their actions.

We all have our own paths we need to walk and this place is a perfect place to talk to people who seem to be a bit ahead of the others in evolution/understanding. I wish I lived in a place where all the people around me knew more than me. That would have been easier to understand things and feel more harmonious with the people around me.

Your post is pushing the op towards not seeking enlightment and opening chakras and trying to understand nonduality that is both in buddism/hinduism/native american religon and Jesus teaching. Your post seem to be to the op to not belive anything or seek any more knowledge and remain unchanged. If one of us knows what we are talking about then not seeking further is ignorant. If none of ous is not what we say then he will gain knowledge in philosophy and relax in meditiation so what is the problem of following our advice. You are preaching divide and conqurer mentality and that leeds to duality.

Don't be so overdramatic. I am not preaching anything, I am stating my opinion. If it affected you in away way, maybe you should take a long stare in the mirror and ask yourself why.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

That is your truth right now. That's the extent of your experience and that, as a result, is your perspective. However, I never said anything about telling others anything. I didn't say that you should make them aware of the "error of their ways". What I said is that that is your perspective. It would only be arrogant of you to go around pointing out "faults" in others. How do you know it is not your own unless you have examined the situation (in meditation when first starting out, for example) with great compassion? You could be the one with the "wrong" view.

The point is to observe more than to affect. Participate but with as little interference as possible. Allow others to pursue their truth and their dreams while you do the same for yourself.

I did not meant that you did want to tell them "the error of their ways". It was a way to write a continued idea but maybe i could have phrased it differently. I am unsure if much or little interference right now is the right action. It depends on the person you are talking to and what my instincts tell me. If I get a specific hunch then I follow it. Synchronicity over mind in that case.

reply to post by ypperst


When asked by a deciple as to what should be done after they attained enllightenment, the Buddah replied," Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water."

Enlightenment is a state of mind. The mind is where thoughts are formed. Thoughts are real energy. We exude our "enlightenment" through our thoughts first, then through actions. If someone was without mobility, no arms or legs, they could still attain enlightenment. Our heart is our most powerful organ, possessing the greatest magnetic energy, much greater than our brain. The seat of our soul is housed within the heart. When we think with our heart and send out our heartfelt thoughts, we ARE doing something. We are changing the world.

There are many empirical examples of proof of this. Greg Braden is just one who has written about this. If all we can do is direct our heartfelt thought energy in love, we are in fact changing the world we live in and bringing about the golden age to this earth, populated by all humanity living as one. There are only 2 choices of thought: that of love or that of fear. We get to choose what we create through these 2 choices from whence all other choices originate.

As the Beatles once said, " And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make."

We are cosmic co-creators.