Olympic Athlete Claims Blacks are superior to Whites

reply to post by antonia

But nothing is equal, that's the problem. You can't even define what genetics support athleticism so what you are arguing is purely subjective.

Are you trying to argue a tabula rasa for all things?

The question of nature verse nurture essentially covers all possibilities. Nature provides us a basic inclination - something which comes easier, and with less restraint, can be developed further than in someone who has to work harder to reach that state. But motivation and a stubborn belief in self can bring someone far.

I think you can't chalk it up to either/or. I do believe in the power of the mind in bridging many hereditary gaps; but you also cant just say willy nilly that anyone can be as good as anyone else if they simply "will it"; some people are good at math because they have a genetic predisposition to be, AND, they honed this ability early on in their life. a 25 year old can apply himself day and night to mathematics but he will most likely never reach a state of efficiency as that person who just had it early on in life.

Likewise, and perhaps even more emphatically, blacks are better athletes because of the type of environment they came from in Africa; there just might be something especially "explosive" about Africa to begin with; the animals are larger, more ferocious (i.e. lions, cheetahs) so why should it come as a surprise that the human being indigenous to those areas as well have an athletic-physical edge over humans from other areas?

Look at Lebron James. You would be hard pressed to find a more phenomenal athlete. This guy could have played either football or Basketball at an elite level, and simply chose basketball because there's more prestige/money in it. He's 6'71/4 without shoes, 6'81/2 with shoes, 260lbs - a virtual power forward body!!! And then add his unbelievable athletic prowess, his 40 inch running vertical, unbelievable quickness and endline to endline sprint that rivals professional 100 Meter sprinters. He's a total and utter freak of nature. And, not surprisingly, he's black.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Originally posted by wingsfan

Originally posted by poloblack

Originally posted by Carseller4
If I had to pick a person by race to win a running race I would pick a black guy.

If I had to pick a person by race to run a country I would pick a white guy.

That has to be one of the most racist statements in ATS history. On that note, white guys have been running the world since the beginning,and,yet,here we are bigot. You probably couldn't run a lemonade stand. Your name is carseller...figures

Quickly just want to point something out. Those "white" people that everyone thinks run the world, are not in fact "white". And that's not coming from me but rather themselves, they track their racial/ethnic background from their mothers.

If you are referring to Jews, then they are still white. There are many different types of white people you can have English (white people), Russians (white people), Croatians (white people), the Dutch (white people), and so on.

White people refers to European.
I AM myself jewish, i have white skin but im not white, white is basically a short form of saying european theres a lot of history of race perception in the united states that someone like you from aus or even europe wouldnt be able to understand the meaning behind it.

Caucasian doesnt = white
An indian guy back in the 1900s applied for US citizenship AFTER serving in our military was denied citizenship because he wasn't white, even though he proved that he was causcasian, and funnily his skin was white than most whites.

Originally posted by getreadyalready


Really? You're still on this? He is the guy who made the original statement. He says he is black, I've seen him, and I believe him.

Oh so you are saying all black people have the same DNA?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by Evolutionsend

Originally posted by getreadyalready
He holds many world records, but he is tall, and his running style is unconventional. He runs straight up, and he takes shorter steps. All conventional wisdom and coaching say he should not be an elite runner, yet he is a world champion and record holder.

Athleticism trumps form.

He is in fact NOT the ideal genetic sprinter then? Interesting. I bet he does many squats, and practices often. Thank you for making my point that genetics are not as important as training methods and practice.

No, his genetics provide fast-twitch muscle fiber, strong tendons with perfect leverage points, balance, storage of key chemicals near his nerve and muscle fiber, and chemical responses in his body faster than his counterparts. Training has given him balance and endurance.

If it was the training methods and practice, he would be running like every other runner on the planet, going against his natural instincts, and we probably wouldn't know his name.

Everyone does squats. Squats are one of the 3 most basic exercises used in all training from 7th grade on up to the pros, and squats have been a staple in training probably since the original Roman Olympics, but certainly for the last 100 years in the US. I held the squat record for my weight class in my high school, and I held the power-clean record also, but I wasn't an elite athlete.

If he had all that and were a bit shorter he would be even better. But he doesn't, and he's still good. Which means genetics do not matter.

Most of the things that you just named can be greatly improved by training and practice as I said. That's why we practice, to improve those things! Genetics account for a smaller margain than training and practice. It always has and always will. Many unconventional great athletes have proved it again and again.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by antonia

 

I think you can't chalk it up to either/or. I do believe in the power of the mind in bridging many hereditary gaps; but you also cant just say willy nilly that anyone can be as good as anyone else if they simply "will it"; some people are good at math because they have a genetic predisposition to be, AND, they honed this ability early on in their life. a 25 year old can apply himself day and night to mathematics but he will most likely never reach a state of efficiency as that person who just had it early on in life.

Terrible example, math is a human system and you would have no knowledge of it if you were never exposed to it. Perhaps you mean logical inference? Again, what you describe isn't genetics-It's interest. I did not say you can be as good as anyone else.

Likewise, and perhaps even more emphatically, blacks are better athletes because of the type of environment they came from in Africa; there just might be something especially "explosive" about Africa to begin with; the animals are larger, more ferocious (i.e. lions, cheetahs) so why should it come as a surprise that the human being indigenous to those areas as well have an athletic-physical edge over humans from other areas?

What you describe is not genetics, it's environmental. Either way, that's not what is being argued here. you need to put some actual proof on the table.

Look at Lebron James. You would be hard pressed to find a more phenomenal athlete. This guy could have played either football or Basketball at an elite level, and simply chose basketball because there's more prestige/money in it. He's 6'71/4 without shoes, 6'81/2 with shoes, 260lbs - a virtual power forward body!!! And then add his unbelievable athletic prowess, his 40 inch running vertical, unbelievable quickness and endline to endline sprint that rivals professional 100 Meter sprinters. He's a total and utter freak of nature. And, not surprisingly, he's black.

edit on 3-7-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

And i doubt he can play every sport on the planet. The problem is the argument boils sports down to a single set of skills and needs when all sports have different requirements. This argument also requires all black people to have the same genetic makeup which they don't. It's completely unscientific.

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by getreadyalready


Really? You're still on this? He is the guy who made the original statement. He says he is black, I've seen him, and I believe him.

Oh so you are saying all black people have the same DNA?

I think its fairly obvious that they have some commonalities that make them all black? Whereas white people are..... white? I realize the gene that determines pigmentation is not the same gene that determines muscle type, or genetic diseases, or the gene that determines overall height, but obviously black people are black and white people are white, so there are some portions of their genetic makeup that make them the way they are.

Mod Note: Kindly refrain from removing staff actions and edits -- they are made for a reason.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

I think its fairly obvious that they have some commonalities that make them all black? Whereas white people are..... white? I realize the gene that determines pigmentation is not the same gene that determines muscle type, or genetic diseases, or the gene that determines overall height, but obviously black people are black and white people are white, so there are some portions of their genetic makeup that make them the way they are.

Yes, but you can't wholesale say what makes Johnson faster or that is has something to do with him being black. You have no idea what his genetic makeup is beyond his black skin. You have no idea if he even has the attributes you attribute to him beyond his skin color. That's the point, it's an unscientific argument. there are many white people who have the attributes you described.

I have brown eyes, that does not mean my DNA makeup is the same as every other brown eyed person.

reply to post by antonia

That's the point, it's an unscientific argument. I have brown eyes, that does not mean my DNA makeup is the same as every other brown eyed person.

If I can look out across a sporting event and see that all the dominant players have brown eyes, or long fingernails, or a left ear that is slightly higher than their right ear, and I can observe that same phenomenon over and over again, and it is the biggest standout commonality that I can observe. Then, according to the scientific method, based upon repeated observations, I can form an hypothesis that says having a higher left ear correlates with improved athletic performance. Then, based on that hypothesis, I can continue to observe, and rule out other anomalies, and I can create a statistic that either supports or debunks my hypothesis. Of course in any study, or any statistic there will be outliers in the study, but if the data supports the hypothesis, then it is a valid hypothesis unless someone comes along and disproves it.

You say it isn't scientific, but it follows every tenet of the basic scientific method, and you have failed to disprove the hypothesis. You have offered your own hypothesis, which is fine, but where are your decades of observation to trump mine and Michael Johnson's?

reply to post by antonia

Terrible example, math is a human system and you would have no knowledge of it if you were never exposed to it. Perhaps you mean logical inference? Again, what you describe isn't genetics-It's interest. I did not say you can be as good as anyone else.

It isn't genetics, but interest??

Have you read anything of Steven Pinker or Noam Chomsky?

There does appear to be genes that govern, or at least facilitate, a variety of abstract states like moods, language, abstract reasoning etc. The person who excels at math has a heightened awareness or abstract possibilities because of more developed 'math gene'.

Also, I would like to make clear that genes which govern mental/emotional states are qualitatively different from genes which govern physical processes. The former are more pliable than the latter.

What you describe is not genetics, it's environmental. Either way, that's not what is being argued here. you need to put some actual proof on the table.

And environment influences genetics. Ex: living in a darker climate changes your skin colour. A white person needs less melatonin because he sees much less of the sun at it's most extreme; a black person, conversely, needs more melatonin to handle the rays of the sun.

The same could be argued (though no explanation currently exists, to my knowledge) for most or all other physical features, biological propensities, etc.

The problem is the argument boils sports down to a single set of skills and needs when all sports have different requirements

You're conflating skill with raw physical aptitude. Skill is what's developed ON TOP of physical aptitude. If you're a great stick handler, it will be fairly useless if you aren't fast, explosive etc. If you're a great ball handler, if you're not at least in the 6 foot range, and have an above average athletic ability i.e. lateral foot speed, first step, stride, standing vertical etc, if you do not stand out here, there's a very good chance you wont stand out at all. Hence, the pre-draft workouts every professional sports league conducts before teams draft. They want to know what kind of athletic specimen they're working with.

Of course, and undoubtedly, athletic prowess needs to be coupled with a mature mind, otherwise you will be no better than a really athletic dimwit. Many thing's go into making a remarkable athlete, but I would think the most determinant element would be athleticism.

In hockey, it's sidney crosby (who is exceptionally quicker than most other hockey players); in basketball, kobe bryant, lebron james, dwyane wade, dwight howard, derrick rose etc - all exceptional PHYSICALLY - and with that prerequisite they've developed a mental maturity to go along.

So which sports in particular are you referring to?? Physical prowess seems to be the biggest factor in hockey, basketball, football (especially), baseball, soccer (only the fastest and most nimble excel), tennis.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

The evil liberal media was hammering the stand your ground issue moreso than zim's ethnic background. Zim made a call based on his dislike of the black dude in the gated community.

You prove my point by continuing with a narrative that was disproved after the media EDITED TAPES to make it seem like he called based on skin color. It was the dispatcher who asked what his skin color was. again, you seem to be proving my point for me.

You have a persecution complex from what I see...

really? Well, I'm not white. I'm just describing what I see going on around me in the world. You have lots of insults, but very little substance.

Originally posted by marsoc

Epic fail
11 pages of my first thread and you go and lower the tone well done you must be very proud of yourself.


To everyone else

This thread has been fascinating

the article in the dailyfail really did get me annoyed which is why I posted it and you guys have done a great job discussing this, if nothing else you have given me hope that people can discuss racial issues without instantly being called an evilracistnaziwhowantstokillsixmillionjewsandclonehitler
I would especially like to thank the black people who have commented and not gone into full on defensive mode
we are all different and we should all be equal
please could all who have contributed to this thread look out for my future ones and comment as you have here which ever side of the fence you sit on

Oh and thanks for all the stars and flags
hess

here here to more understanding in the world and thank you all again

Just stating facts and opinions. Feel good i informed others,while not being vulgar.Thanks

Here is my twopenneth worth, its a concept i have thought much about, we have 5 primary races presently residing on Earth [not counting the hybrids etc lol] each one of the races have what i call special attributes, The darker skinned races have strength and endurance, the also have great musicians, then there is the white species, predominantly pioneers and inventors, The Red race has a deep connection with Mother Earth and understand the cycles and seasons of nature, the Yellow race have mastered the art of working in flow, and to live/work together in close proximity, anyway you get my gist. Its also my belief that we are each of us here to learn to incorporate the best we each of us has to offer, to live together in harmony with our precious planet, to tolerate and learn from each other, imagine what great humans we could become if we could master it.

I'm glad someone brought this topic up, it't not spoken about enough.


There is definitely a "slave" gene in some black people, but not all. It is no secret that slave owners would consistently breed the biggest/strongest male slave with the biggest/strongest female slave in order to produce harder working slaves.

Proof today? Well, other then the black super athletes, I personally know a handful of black men who DO NOT lift weights and DO NOT have a good diet consistent on macros and micros, all staples in order to have GREEK GOD physic. Yet these black men have these Greek god physics and they don't work for them at all, it just comes naturally. Now, anyone who knows ANYTHING about nutrition BASICS understands this goes against everything the human race and modern medicine know about the body and the physic.


Again, important to note, this doesn't include everyone. There are plenty of black men and women who are fat and soft just like the rest of the world that doesn't exercise. There are "lucky" ones though, and yes it's lucky to have 6% body fat and be ripped without any effort at all.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital
reply to post by Hess88

 

To some extent he is correct, black people seem to be faster than other races, it doesn't mean they are superior, because white people also seem to be stronger than other races, whilst asians tend to be more flexible and coordinated.
All races have their unique attributes.

If Life was an RPG, and my goal was to be a common criminal, I would definitely choose black! I'd get a +3 bonus to speed and a +5 bonus for crime.

Edit:

I recently created a thread regarding how the Obama Administration and Dayton Ohio Firefighter, Police, and EMT specifically lowered test score requirements because blacks were not passing the tests.

It was thrown in the thrash bin because of "Racial Overtones".

Funny.

reply to post by Hess88


Don't give it legs.

His post needed to go, I saw it before it went. Discussing it now will just bring more negative attention. Any time you see a post removed, the worst possible thing you can do will be to comment on that post. This thread has gone way more pages than any of us expected it to go, so we don't want to see it derailed now.

I am feeling mixed emotions about commenting myself, but I'm hoping maybe I can nip it in the bud. Please don't even respond to my post.

For the record, anyone that is temporarily banned from posting will have gotten instructions from the Mods on what they need to do to rectify the situation. If your friend pretends the don't understand, then they need to contact the Mods that have been messaging them instead whining to another member.

The post that was removed was the first post of its type in this thread, although a couple of others have been very, very close to the line, his definitely crossed it. Lets just leave it at that. If he disagrees with the post removal, he has a PM in his box, he can argue it with the Mod, but we MUST NOT discuss it in the thread, unless ya'll are ready to see it closed down.

I'm curious to hear what this man has to say about superiority and such.



He proclaim himself the strongest man to ever live in the 80s. Proffesional critics agree that he is the strongest man in recorded history, and would likely still be at the top of the game today if he were in his prime.

In 1978, Kazmaier won the IPF world powerlifting championship and the American powerlifting championship. He won the IPF world championship again in 1983. In 1981, Kazmaier became the first person to bench press 300 kg in competition. The 1981 event was the same competition in which he totaled 1,100 kg (2,425 lb). His best lifts were: 925 lbs squat (done without a suit), 662 lbs bench press, and 974 lbs deadlift.

Kazmaier won the World's Strongest Man (WSM) title three times in 1980, 1981, and 1982. After these victories, Kazmaier was not invited back to compete in the WSM contest again until 1988, when he finished second to Jón Páll Sigmarsson He finished fourth in his final WSM appearance in 1989. Kazmaier was the first man to press the Thomas Inch dumbbell and in fact he was only the fifth person to even lift it above the knee, setting this record on October 13, 1990.

source

Not bad for a white guy! I would be willing to bet that Kazmier still has more fast twitch muscle fiber in his left bicep than that guy has in his entire body.

Originally posted by monica1968
Here is my twopenneth worth, its a concept i have thought much about, we have 5 primary races presently residing on Earth [not counting the hybrids etc lol] each one of the races have what i call special attributes, The darker skinned races have strength and endurance, the also have great musicians, then there is the white species, predominantly pioneers and inventors, The Red race has a deep connection with Mother Earth and understand the cycles and seasons of nature, the Yellow race have mastered the art of working in flow, and to live/work together in close proximity, anyway you get my gist. Its also my belief that we are each of us here to learn to incorporate the best we each of us has to offer, to live together in harmony with our precious planet, to tolerate and learn from each other, imagine what great humans we could become if we could master it.

You could really be on to something here nice contribution thank you
I think the survival of all these races is of paramount importance its what I would commonly refer to as the natural order of things lol.