God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday Higgs boson particle

I guess the Higgs is supposed to be a particle that causes mass, so a particle which is responsible for the EM force? This notion is to me absurd and an example of scientists tying to interpret quantum mechanics in terms of a dead paradigm - materialism.

There are only waves, no particles exist and these are merely Black Magicians. So, I'm not impressed by whatever twists and misconstrued science they want to try and shove at us again.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Disprove Religion or God?

I hate to spoil the party, but I doubt it does either ... as much as I hear about this particles implications, here and there ... I hear nothing of the "why" and "how" those implications apply.

Sounds more like another "Big Bang" to me ...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Closer to, not found.

"After more than 10 years of gathering and analyzing data produced by the U.S. Department of Energy's Tevatron collider, scientists from the CDF and DZero collaborations have found their strongest indication to date for the long-sought Higgs particle."

www.fnal.gov...

reply to post by Ear-Responsible


I think we should accept once and for all that God is to us what the earth's shape was to the Catholic church. Completely unknowable except through pure speculation, much of which is based off of incomplete data and absurd preconceptions. In a chundred years or so, we might begin to grasp the nature of this divinity, but until then...we're too afraid to admit we don't know. Balance of power and all that.

Let's just hold hands and agree that God is most likely not an invisible bearded man-like being hovering in the sky, ready to bestow benevolence on anyone who asks nicely and set everyone else on fire. We might start to get somewhere then.

To call a Higgs boson the God particle seems less correct than a Tachyon the God particle. Here's a comment thats circulated all the physics forums, and has been seen around.

"Now the tachyon is a theoretical particle that travels faster than the speed of light. As you may already know, nothing can accelerate and continue to accelerate to light speed or for that matter beyond, the energy required is infinite. But, I believe that faster than light speed IS possible, as long as acceleration is not used, but instead, instantaneous travel is employed i.e. worm holes or some such. A tachyon particle to travel faster than light MUST do so instantaneously. A tachyon particle could theoretically visit every point in the universe at the same time, simply because the time it takes it to reach any point is 0 (instantaneous travel!). So to reach ALL points in space the time would also be 0.
Now let's assume a technology was developed that could in fact detect tachyons. The device would detect countless tachyons in every direction. But those countless tachyons could just as easily be only the 1 (visiting every point in space-apparently at the same time!!). One tachyon particle is all that is required to fill the universe with tachyons. So one tachyon particle could be seen as omnipresent maybe even as God himself touching ALL matter."

Originally posted by Azdraik
You know I never quite understood the whole point to this.

Ok, so you found your particle. Its a nice ego stroke to know you were right and it exists.

That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?
Will this lead to further advancement of quantum theory?

ad infinitum

What does it do for us...? Shudder at that thought, and here is why...

www.doug-long.com...

Although Einstein did not directly discover or create the Atomic bomb or Atomic energy his groundbreaking theory of Relativity did. We all have seen the destructive nature of this energy in action now place that on a cosmic scale!

This so called "God" particle was fundamental in the creation of the UNIVERSE!!! Now imagine a theory of a "Genesis" weapon something that could destroy a world, a solar system, a galaxy??? Who knows maybe create a completely new Universe where ours now stands...(Ok so I watch too much Star Trek...but something similar could happen, they still don't know what causes Gamma Ray Bursts and it could be this!)

Ponder that for a bit when you ask what does this do for us!

reply to post by abeverage


This is why I continue to say that we have mastered the material world...now is the time when we master matters of spirit. Without the guidance of spirit, how will we determine the proper use of material? Our love of money has already proven this.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Why I love this quote!
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

There really should be some public oversight to scientific endeavors, which we collectively decided upon whether we will or will not pursue certain advancements and what that impact could and will be on humanity!

reply to post by abeverage


Oh, public oversight? You mean the ones spouting off every day about gun rights? Yes, they would absolutely shirk the opportunity to show off a new weapon capable of rendering half the planet to ashes.

There's a reason these things are kept secret. The general public is too narrow-minded to see the big picture, and the politicians are too broad-minded to care about the little picture.

I just always thought it would be crazy to live 200,000 years into the future, after civilization had been wiped out 4 or 5 times and scientists discover the this crazy contraption 100 meters underground (LHC) built by intelligent beings and we have to figure out what it was used for.

i do not know what this proves...but one thing i do know, nobody spends tens of billions of dollars, employs scientists for tens of thousands of hours over a 10 year period to "ANSWER THE QUESTIONS OF THE UNIVERSE".."they" are looking for something....well, BIG....big enough to justify this type of investment...and NOT to just prove a theory.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I didn't want to read through all of the comments, many of which are undoubtedly irrelevant to my question, so I'll just ask it whether or not it's already been put forth.

I've read a bit on the Higgs Boson, but the summaries still haven't done justice in explaining exactly how it works. Is this particle the one that is supposedly responsible for mass and the inner gravity of the atom? I would appreciate if someone could explain (in layman's terms!) the importance of the Higgs Boson.

Though it isn't particularly layman, 'The Standard Model' of particle physics is used for many scientific applications. The Higgs boson is part of The Standard Model (See link) Some quotes that easily explain the role of the Higgs Boson are detailed below.

The Standard Model

Because of its success in explaining a wide variety of experimental results, the Standard Model is sometimes regarded as a "theory of almost everything".

Recently, the Standard Model has found applications in fields besides particle physics, such as astrophysics, cosmology, and nuclear physics.

In the Standard Model, gauge bosons are defined as force carriers that mediate the strong, weak, and electromagnetic fundamental interactions.

Interactions in physics are the ways that particles influence other particles. At a macroscopic level, electromagnetism allows particles to interact with one another via electric and magnetic fields, and gravitation allows particles with mass to attract one another in accordance with Einstein's theory of general relativity. The Standard Model explains such forces as resulting from matter particles exchanging other particles, known as force mediating particles

Because an exceptionally large amount of energy and beam luminosity are theoretically required to observe a Higgs boson in high energy colliders, it is the only fundamental particle predicted by the Standard Model that has yet to be observed.

The Higgs boson plays a unique role in the Standard Model, by explaining why the other elementary particles, except the photon and gluon, are massive. In particular, the Higgs boson would explain why the photon has no mass, while the W and Z bosons are very heavy. Elementary particle masses, and the differences between electromagnetism (mediated by the photon) and the weak force (mediated by the W and Z bosons), are critical to many aspects of the structure of microscopic (and hence macroscopic) matter. In electroweak theory, the Higgs boson generates the masses of the leptons (electron, muon, and tau) and quarks.

Keep in mind they were never looking for the God Particle, they were only looking for the wave

Originally posted by Azdraik
You know I never quite understood the whole point to this.

Ok, so you found your particle. Its a nice ego stroke to know you were right and it exists.

That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?
Will this lead to further advancement of quantum theory?

ad infinitum

I think it means that we will now know how energy with zero mass is somehow transformed into particles with mass. Again, I THINK that's what it means.

If we learn how the Higgs particle does this, we might be able to transform energy ourselves. Endless energy.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by abeverage

 

Oh, public oversight? You mean the ones spouting off every day about gun rights? Yes, they would absolutely shirk the opportunity to show off a new weapon capable of rendering half the planet to ashes.

There's a reason these things are kept secret. The general public is too narrow-minded to see the big picture, and the politicians are too broad-minded to care about the little picture.

Actually I meant a committee of scientists and general public and not politicians…

The implications of actually locating, isolating, and being able to study in any depth whatsoever, a particle which is responsible for giving other particles their mass would be without doubt life changing for the human race. Knowing how particles are given their mass, will allow scientists to mess around with the mass of particles that already exist, by manipulating this particle type. So the possibilities are staggering. We could be looking at ways of more solidly binding armor against space radiation, anti gravity straight out of the pages of science fiction.

Another big thing to consider. If we learned how to control the level of mass, present in a particle, we could finally have the chance to TAP a gravity source, under our control, allowing us to finally access the sort of energy required for a time/space folding starship drive.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


What I find most cool about this is the need to have a team of theoretical physicists consult them three days before the announcement. To me, it sounds like they've found something the challenges the standard model and they are looking for ways to justify it.

The stubbornness of mainstream scientists makes it difficult for them to dismantle long-held beliefs. I think we will view many of the torch carriers for the standard model someday as we view the Catholic church vs science in contemporary life.

The standard model already has enough holes in it that they are desperately trying to find something to justify it. It's possible it backfired.

What if it does not exist?
Do you think they would tell you?

What if it really does not exist and they lie because off all the money and work that was put into that massive machine? It happens all the time, scientist discover their theory's are wrong after they have spent millions and employed thousands. Some times they do not like to admit they are wrong and some times tptb do not want information getting out. I am not going to jump to any conclusions, even if they announce it. Just have to wait and see what happens.

Originally posted by Infi8nity
What if it does not exist?
Do you think they would tell you?

What if it really does not exist and they lie because off all the money and work that was put into that massive machine? It happens all the time, scientist discover their theory's are wrong after they have spent millions and employed thousands. Some times they do not like to admit they are wrong and some times tptb do not want information getting out. I am not going to jump to any conclusions, even if they announce it. Just have to wait and see what happens.

edit on 2-7-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)

The value doesn't come from one outcome vs another. Any absolute outcome would justify the resources put into this project. That's science; if there's a result, it's a valuable result.

edit ps - I also totally understand what you mean by science's reluctance to be forthcoming about certain undesirable outcomes. Sorry, had to read your post twice.