God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday Higgs boson particle

apologies if this comes across as naive/dumb or elementary but....

1) so whats the big deal about them finding out what gives particles their mass?

2) whats the big deal about them having conformation that the standard model is correct?


dont u think some people find it more interesting to have conformation that the standard model isnt correct and they have to change the what they know about physics?



sorry just curious here. i pose the question like this because i want someone to break down further why this is significant. i dont doubt that it is or isnt.... im just trying to educate myself. thanks.

Originally posted by krossfyter
dont u think some people find it more interesting to have conformation that the standard model isnt correct and they have to change the what they know about physics?

Who cares if some people find it interesting? You live in a what if land. It's important that more theories are proven, that way people can move on.

Originally posted by Swamper

Originally posted by krossfyter
dont u think some people find it more interesting to have conformation that the standard model isnt correct and they have to change the what they know about physics?

Who cares if some people find it interesting? You live in a what if land. It's important that more theories are proven, that way people can move on.

edit on 2/7/12 by Swamper because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by dominicus
I guess this particle proves once and for all that God exists.

Awesome!!!!

Lol what? How did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by Ear-Responsible
Lol what? How did you come to that conclusion?

I think as he see's it, a thing like this particle existing, is like a God touching everything to give it purpose.

Originally posted by Swamper

Originally posted by Ear-Responsible
Lol what? How did you come to that conclusion?

I think as he see's it, a thing like this particle existing, is like a God touching everything to give it purpose.

edit on 2/7/12 by Swamper because: (no reason given)

So, let me grasp this concept - now we are ordering the God to do our bidding?

Interesting...

I just heard this news this morning on the radio. One of great discoveries that will prove some of concepts of universe, but also open door for new discoveries.

reply to post by Insomniac

I guess they'll continue with their experiments until they've discovered many more than the 300 Higgs - Boson candidates that they've currently found before claiming that they have conclusive proof.

Over the past year, they have nearly doubled the observed candidate interactions. They can state to within four or five standard deviations that they have observed Higgs producing interactions. This entitles them to state that they have "discovered" the Higgs boson. This rumor has been circulating for the past couple of months. I've seen data that suggests that it is true. We'll know in 48 hours.

Star and Flagged MR_PROFFESIONAL

Exellent Post

Originally posted by krossfyter
apologies if this comes across as naive/dumb or elementary but....

1) so whats the big deal about them finding out what gives particles their mass?

2) whats the big deal about them having conformation that the standard model is correct?


dont u think some people find it more interesting to have conformation that the standard model isnt correct and they have to change the what they know about physics?

Science is a difficult beast to understand (which is why religion is ran to in droves...much easier to have a religion than to understand science.

Now, what follows is my stupid ape brain trying to comprehend all of this as best I can..not so much the science (basically, in the most laymans terms, they may have figured out how things go from energy to mass..but of course such a simplified understanding is woefully short of the mark..still, it works enough to say this is the overall theme).

The more we understand something, the more we can harnass it..consider this. the more we understood about the atom, the more we could use it...primitive understanding allowed us to use tools, advanced understanding allowed us to create nuclear energy and bombs. like fire, it is neutral..how we use it will determine if the discovery was a net positive or negative for the world.

So time to consider...
If we understand the formation (and deformation) of matter on the most basic scale, what sort of innovations could pop forward from such an understanding? could we "create" and shape matter like a food replicator in star trek? could we make hole burrowing machines that disrupt the higgs field and makes them shoot through the earth like one would through water? If anything, it will kick sci-fi in gear with speculation until we see actual results..but it is always a good thing (my perspective) when we learn more about the nature of our universe...

thank you SaturnFX. that helps immensely. really appreciate you taking time out of your day to explain that.

"We might potentially have evidence of the alleged existence of this thing for which we search - give us more monies please, thank you" - CERN scientists

This particle is responsible for the existence of the universe? So does this prove that God exists?

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein[color=grey] "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


It does raise an interesting question though. If one of these 'theoretical' models were conclusively proven to be true, would they cease to be theoretical physicists? Would they just become quantum physicists or higgs-boson physicists or some other term for the model which was proven? All science was theoretical at some point.

Just playing devil's advocate, not saying your explanation/answer was in any way incorrect.

i am very reluctant to trust anything from the daily mail. they have done several articles on my husband's work, and they infuriate him as they are full of scientific inaccuracies and flat out false information. they do not make an effort to garner correct data, they just go for the flashy headline (even if it's incorrect) and put no effort into publishing accurate information. if you Google my husband (igor siwanowicz) and read their most recent piece you will gasp out loud at some of the inaccurate statements made! he is brilliant, and it was a huge embarassment the way they chose to caption his work. : ^ (

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


The God particle? Google Nassim Haramein. Basically the infinitely large and the infinitely small are one. They will never find the smallest particle. Look at Mandelbrot sets. The same pattern lies within itself infinitely. All they have isolated is another smaller part of the equation but much much more lies ahead. You can't reduce an infinite source field down to a particle. You can though identify a pattern. Humanities hubris is astounding.

Originally posted by krossfyter
apologies if this comes across as naive/dumb or elementary but....

1) so whats the big deal about them finding out what gives particles their mass?

2) whats the big deal about them having conformation that the standard model is correct?


dont u think some people find it more interesting to have conformation that the standard model isnt correct and they have to change the what they know about physics?



sorry just curious here. i pose the question like this because i want someone to break down further why this is significant. i dont doubt that it is or isnt.... im just trying to educate myself. thanks.

This is a very important find, as it defines atomic and sub atomic particles and their interaction. This has specific purpose for establishing the properties of dark matter and dark energy, of which the universe is mostly composed.

science.nasa.gov...

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 70% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 25%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe.

dark matter chart

further details of higs boson and dark energy

Their quest: find the secrets of dark matter and the 'God particle' - a sub-atomic particle that is fundamental to understanding the nature of matter, but so elusive that, physicists quip, it can only be compared to divinity.

science.nasa.gov...

One explanation for dark energy is that it is a property of space. Albert Einstein was the first person to realize that empty space is not nothing. Space has amazing properties, many of which are just beginning to be understood. The first property that Einstein discovered is that it is possible for more space to come into existence. Then one version of Einstein's gravity theory, the version that contains a cosmological constant, makes a second prediction: "empty space" can possess its own energy. Because this energy is a property of space itself, it would not be diluted as space expands. As more space comes into existence, more of this energy-of-space would appear. As a result, this form of energy would cause the Universe to expand faster and faster. Unfortunately, no one understands why the cosmological constant should even be there, much less why it would have exactly the right value to cause the observed acceleration of the Universe.

Another explanation for dark energy is that it is a new kind of dynamical energy fluid or field, something that fills all of space but something whose effect on the expansion of the Universe is the opposite of that of matter and normal energy. Some theorists have named this "quintessence," after the fifth element of the Greek philosophers. But, if quintessence is the answer, we still don't know what it is like, what it interacts with, or why it exists. So the mystery continues.

A last possibility is that Einstein's theory of gravity is not correct. That would not only affect the expansion of the Universe, but it would also affect the way that normal matter in galaxies and clusters of galaxies behaved. This fact would provide a way to decide if the solution to the dark energy problem is a new gravity theory or not: we could observe how galaxies come together in clusters. But if it does turn out that a new theory of gravity is needed, what kind of theory would it be? How could it correctly describe the motion of the bodies in the Solar System, as Einstein's theory is known to do, and still give us the different prediction for the Universe that we need? There are candidate theories, but none are compelling. So the mystery continues.

The thing that is needed to decide between dark energy possibilities - a property of space, a new dynamic fluid, or a new theory of gravity - is more data, better data.

Hmmmm- I must say, Im suprised that an announcement of this gravity (if true) would be entrusted to a right wing tabloid comic like the Daily Mail.....

Wouldn't it be funny if an experimenter effect showed up here? The raw sciences like physics never seem to consider experimenter effects, they seem to think that the idea is neglible (non-existant, really) but that could be an unfounded assumption. Seems like if experimenter effects could appear anywhere in physics, it might be here, especially with all the emotion and expectation and personal ambitions and hopes riding so high for so long. We'll just have to wait and see if funny things happen to the Higgs signal.

I didn't want to read through all of the comments, many of which are undoubtedly irrelevant to my question, so I'll just ask it whether or not it's already been put forth.

I've read a bit on the Higgs Boson, but the summaries still haven't done justice in explaining exactly how it works. Is this particle the one that is supposedly responsible for mass and the inner gravity of the atom? I would appreciate if someone could explain (in layman's terms!) the importance of the Higgs Boson.